My Coupe's first Blackstone Oil Analysis

[bignosejim]

Just did my first oil change and had a sample sent off to see how the S54 is doing. Lead numbers were way higher than I wanted!! Other than that everything looks fine.



I plan on sending samples off after every oil change. I think I will probably wait until next year to replace my bearings, depending on future results. These numbers are higher than most that I've seen online. I've read some posts that say don't worry until your in the 30 to 50 ppm range, but that seems a little high to me since the average is around 4 ppm.

I want to do a couple of track days in the fall. Other than that I mostly drive on nice days to work and back (80 mile round trip with one or two visits to near red line).

What do you guys think?

[thekurgan]

What has your oil change maintenance been up to this point? This sample shows just over 5k, but is that your normal interval? 22ppm seems very high to me, but others may not think so.

[santov]

I'd test next (don't have to change the oil) at 2500 miles and hopefully your lead reading will be < half of the value you have now.

I love UOA for heath checkups or when buying a new (used) car. But they become more useful when you have lots of historical data points to reference.

Keep in mind tracking can be brutal on oil, so an early oil change, or perhaps at least a analysis might be a good idea.

[bignosejim]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

What has your oil change maintenance been up to this point? This sample shows just over 5k, but is that your normal interval? 22ppm seems very high to me, but others may not think so.

This was my first oil change with the car. It had an oil change the just before I purchased it. It had it's 1200 mile maintenance, and one other documented oil change plus at least one undocumented oil change from it's PO. I think it may have gone close to 12k between break in (1200 miles) and the next oil change. The PO was pretty good about changing the oil.

I'm definitely going to keep an eye on the numbers. I plan on changing the oil every 5,000 miles. I'll be changing it shortly after tracking it also. I'd like to get some more numbers between now and tracking also.

If nothing else, I'm aware of the condition and can let the numbers tell me when I get to change the connecting rod bearings (and upgrade to ARP bolts!!).

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by bignosejim

This was my first oil change with the car. It had an oil change the just before I purchased it. It had it's 1200 mile maintenance, and one other documented oil change plus at least one undocumented oil change from it's PO. I think it may have gone close to 12k between break in (1200 miles) and the next oil change. The PO was pretty good about changing the oil.

I'm definitely going to keep an eye on the numbers. I plan on changing the oil every 5,000 miles. I'll be changing it shortly after tracking it also. I'd like to get some more numbers between now and tracking also.

If nothing else, I'm aware of the condition and can let the numbers tell me when I get to change the connecting rod bearings (and upgrade to ARP bolts!!).

I think what you may be seeing is some break-in from the lead-based bearings. I didn't know this was the first post-1200 service. PAL has a lot of records of his tests, but I'm not sure if he started testing his oil when his engine was this young.

[Finnegan]

Since I have no idea, what would replacing the bearings (and bolts) run in parts/labor? Anyone have a ballpark number?

[bignosejim]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

I think what you may be seeing is some break-in from the lead-based bearings. I didn't know this was the first post-1200 service. PAL has a lot of records of his tests, but I'm not sure if he started testing his oil when his engine was this young.

I meant to say that my M Coupe has a total of 27,000 miles on it. It's had probably 4 changes done since the 1200 mile service. The first of those four probably had around 12,000 miles on the oil before changing. Since then, it's had two owners including me that took better care of it.

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Since I have no idea, what would replacing the bearings (and bolts) run in parts/labor? Anyone have a ballpark number?

I think that to have a shop do the bearings, it would be around $1,000 based on reading through the forums.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Since I have no idea, what would replacing the bearings (and bolts) run in parts/labor? Anyone have a ballpark number?

I've heard upwards of $2k, depending if you go OEM or with VAC Motorsports coated, labor, parts, blah blah blah. I haven't seen any reports of aftermarket bearings lasting longer. Kids on m3forum.net seem to be the beta testers of just about anything S54 related.

[XMetal]

What are the "signs" that your bearing are about to need replacement?

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by XMetal

What are the "signs" that your bearing are about to need replacement?

From what I've read, high lead readings, noise. I would also suspect some loss of smoothness in the upper rpm range as well. Quite a few have been replaced over on m3forum.net, lots of threads over there regarding the issue. I guess even after the BMW fiasco with the early E46M3, these are a weak spot for the engine, but luckily, drop the oil pan and they are serviceable as a bottom end solution.

[G80indy]

I'm a bit confused about this.
Is it a parts issue, a negative result from track/hard use, or a negative result from extended OCIs?

[mhughett]

Originally Posted by 330indy

I'm a bit confused about this.
Is it a parts issue, a negative result from track/hard use, or a negative result from extended OCIs?

Heaven forbid that an engine component in our S54 engines would EVER show undue wear while we religiously use the Castrol TWS Motorsport motor oil. Could it be that this oil may NOT be the automotive fountain of youth that so many supporters believe it to be?

Sorry, I'll refrain from bringing up any further off topic issues.

[thekurgan]

I think it's more of a design issue, other than the oil type. I believe PAL had his done, maybe get his take on the coated bearings he used from Randy. I don't believe he went with the VAC bearings.

[mousitch]

Leaded race gasoline and/or Techron(BMW fuel cleaner) can bump up your lead levels. Ive read doing Techon every 2500 miles can get you to 41ppm on Blackstone(one particular case). It has caused 27ppm for me. After slowing down use it went way down. I wouldn't freak out just yet and I'm the king of freaking out trust me.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by mousitch

Leaded race gasoline and/or Techron(BMW fuel cleaner) can bump up your lead levels. Ive read doing Techon every 2500 miles can get you to 41ppm on Blackstone(one particular case). It has caused 27ppm for me. After slowing down use it went way down. I wouldn't freak out just yet and I'm the king of freaking out trust me.

Interesting.
I would also suspect the added strain of regular 8000 rpm bursts inherently "test' the main bearings.

[mousitch]

Originally Posted by 330indy

Interesting.
I would also suspect the added strain of regular 8000 rpm bursts inherently "test' the main bearings.

Don't remember a time that I haven't ran her up to 8000 (properly warmed up of course). A few good on-ramps is a necessity in this vehicle

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by mousitch

Leaded race gasoline and/or Techron(BMW fuel cleaner) can bump up your lead levels. Ive read doing Techon every 2500 miles can get you to 41ppm on Blackstone(one particular case). It has caused 27ppm for me. After slowing down use it went way down. I wouldn't freak out just yet and I'm the king of freaking out trust me.

Wow, this is the first I've heard of this, and I went and googled up "Techron Lead Oil Analysis" and sure enough, there are multiple claims that Techron use can lead to elevated lead levels.

Weird.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Wow, this is the first I've heard of this, and I went and googled up "Techron Lead Oil Analysis" and sure enough, there are multiple claims that Techron use can lead to elevated lead levels.

Weird.

The question is why? There is no lead in the techron, so is it pulling it from the surrounding metals, bypassing the oil control rings, thinning the oil so much as to cause undue wear? I've used the stuff before I send in samples, but haven't had this concentration before and I usually run two bottles in two subsequent tanks.

[The HACK]

I don't know, none of the threads and discussions that came up through Google offered any tangible or credible explanation as to WHY.

[Ron Stygar]

Originally Posted by mousitch

Leaded race gasoline and/or Techron(BMW fuel cleaner) can bump up your lead levels.

Not me.

The fuel system cleaner is one ounce per gallon. I do the fuel cleaner every 3000 miles.
10 ounces on the first fill up and another 10 ounces on the next fill up.

Three 4,500 miles

1st, 4,500 miles: lead = 2

2nd, 4,500 miles: lead = 1

3rd, 4,500 miles: lead = 2
.
.
.
.
.

[mousitch]

Maybe I shouldn't dump the whole content of the BIG bottle in at once.

1st 2ppm(2000mi

Tecron 1000 miles after first change

2nd 22ppm(3500mi

3rd 1ppm(3500mi

Could of gotten contaminated because BMW pulled the 2nd sample. The rest were pulled by myself.

[bignosejim]

Out of all the threads I've read regarding rod bearing wear/replacement, I haven't heard that Techron can cause a high reading. I'm not doubting it, but I haven't used any in my engine yet. So it's definitely not the cause of my high readings.

When I first got the car, the oil level was above the high mark on the dipstick (about a 1/4"). That is the only anomaly that I can think of during the 5,500 miles I've owned it.

I knew the rod bearings were an issue with this engine along with the vanos and I know what to look for with both of those weaknesses. Those weak points are just a minor part of an otherwise great engine. A high revving, long stroke engine, and close tolerances makes this a blast to drive. I know it has comparatively narrow rod bearings that can take a beating at 8,000 rpm. So I'm pretty sure no matter what brand you get, they will be a wear item. Maintenance is part of the joy of ownership for me.