Looking to take the plunge into a used E92.

[dainesedan]

Hi there,

The E92 came out while I was in high school but circumstances haven't been ideal to get one. However now is my chance.

Looking for a E92 right now, since the high mileage ones are falling into the price range that my girl and I are comfortable with for a third car.

I've been reading and researching as much as I can on the reliability of the car, because I would probably need to buy one with at least 50k-90k miles on it.

I kind of want to buy from Carmax and pay their premium and get their warranty which I've heard from a friend who has a V10 M6 (and had tons of problems) has done him well and he believes buying their warranty was the smartest thing he's ever done.

With that being said I have found a E92 M3 that I really like at the Ford Dealership down the street, they want 27k for a 2010 that has about 90k miles. Not including the aftermarket warranty they are offering me for 2yrs/24k for 3300 bucks. I'm pretty sure they want it out of their hair and are calling me everyday about it.

Carmax wants about 31-33k for a similarly equipped E92. With maybe 60k miles so I'm a predicament of whether to wait it out and save up a little more for a Carmax E92, or just go down the street/a small used car dealership and get one of those.

I know to get it inspected by a BMW stealership, but other than that I'm kind of scared because whether its blown out of proportion or not, the rod bearings scare me. And BMW has not had a great reputation with my extended family reliability wise.

I have half my friends telling me to just pull the trigger and get into one and buy it because it's my dream car (maybe to get me to shut up about it) and others are telling me to wait it out and save more for a lesser mileage one.

Questions are...
Any tips as to buying a used E9X M3 specifically?
Should I be scared to jump into this car without a warranty?
Opinions on Carmax/Maxcare warranties?

TL;DR I want to keep this car for forever, but I can only afford a used one with a good amount of miles on it. And I don't want it sitting in my garage because it blew up. So I'm looking for tips as to what to look for when buying a used high mileage one, and whether or not a warranty is worth it.

Thanks dudes

V/R
Dan

[kamber]

Keep in mind that the following post is just one man's perspective (mine):

I was in a similar boat back in July when I started looking.

You're in a good spot, because I would argue that it's definitely a buyer's market right now, and you're in CA which likely has the largest concentration of used M3's available on the West Coast. Sure, there are a ton of M3's that are still priced quite high, but I'd venture to guess that most of them are not selling unless they are pristine ultra low mileage examples or something unique/special. I wholeheartedly wish that I waited another 4 months before purchasing mine, the buyer's market was awesome this past Autumn. If you're not the kind of guy that prefers to or needs to buy a lower mileage example and is comfortable with paying less for a higher mileage vehicle, I'd say you have a ton of options.

My goal was to find a higher mileage E90 6MT. My reasoning was this; I didn't really feel like paying the price premium for an M3 in the 40-60k mileage bracket just to drive it another 1-2 years and have to perform a ton of maintenance on items like throttle actuators, rod bearings, ICV, thermostat, water pump, fuel pump, coil packs, belts, etc (I'm just shooting off a bunch of stuff that typically needs replacement when the car hits 75k+ miles). I planned on daily driving this car, and keeping it until it wasn't worth fixing anymore, so it would have been silly to fork out an additional 10-15k just for a lower mileage example.

So, I looked specifically for an older, higher mileage vehicle that had a detailed maintenance history and already had major items like throttle actuators and rod bearings replaced (if anything else on that short list was replaced it would just be a bonus). For reference, I ended up paying $23.5k for a 90k mileage E90 6MT with TA, rod bearings, ICV, misc belts, entire transmission, and 1x coil pack replaced within the past 20K mileage, came with ~$3K worth (worth to me, in terms of how much I could get for them if I parted them out off the car) of mods (Ohlin's R&T, Megan cat-back + ACM test pipes, Lux angel eyes, ESS N/A tune, BMW performance steering wheel, Challenge CF trunk, misc other small stuff) and ~$2k worth of issues to be fixed (bumper re-spray needed, undercarriage felt needed replacing, coding issue with angel eyes, intake box screw hole threads stripped, clearcoat defect on Challenge CF trunk).

You're in CA, so definitely get ANY M3 you consider purchasing PPI'd at a reputable BMW Indy shop (there are a couple known-good shops in your state). I personally couldn't give a single flying f**k about a PPI by a dealership, as I had one performed before and it missed a ton of things. Typical dealership uselessness. YMMV, depending on your relationship with the specific dealership and how much you trust their reputation/ability to perform a thorough and actually helpful PPI.

No idea on the warranties; I bought my car on the cheap expecting to put money into it maintenance-wise and mod-wise. Just made sure that major stuff was unlikely to need replacement via maintenance history, and had no problem correcting the minor issues/maintenance myself. Since buying it, I've basically modded it as a I pleased, changed ALL the fluids to fresh fluids from brands of my choosing, and slowly corrected all the minor issues that I was aware and unaware of (remember that shitty PPI I had done at a useless dealership? hehe). Thoroughly enjoying it still.

There are users on here that work for BMW or have access to the system that could probably hook you up with service records/maintenance history if you provided them the VIN number. I recall seeing posts about this made in the past. I would definitely do that if you had no other service records provided by the seller.

Checkout this thread to get a "rough" idea of how good of a deal you can realistically shoot for: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366319

Also, FWIW, if that M3 being sold by the Ford dealership is bone stock and has not had throttle actuators or rod bearings replaced, I wouldn't pay more than $22k for it. If it was heavily modded previously and then subsequently un-modded, I would pay even less for it or not touch it. At that mileage, I wouldn't touch it unless the dealership can provide detailed service records/maintenance history.

TLDR: If your budget is ~30k, just be smart, discerning, and patient about your selection/purchase process and you'll be just fine. I'm confident you can find a good example to pull the trigger on that has major maintenance items already taken care of, at a good value that won't break the bank.

[dainesedan]

Originally Posted by kamber

If you're not the kind of guy that prefers to or needs to buy a lower mileage example and is comfortable with paying less for a higher mileage vehicle, I'd say you have a ton of options.

I honestly could care less about how many miles are on the car. So long as I don't have many issues.

Originally Posted by kamber

My goal was to find a higher mileage E90 6MT. My reasoning was this; I didn't really feel like paying the price premium for an M3 in the 40-60k mileage bracket just to drive it another 1-2 years and have to perform a ton of maintenance on items like throttle actuators, rod bearings, ICV, thermostat, water pump, fuel pump, coil packs, belts, etc (I'm just shooting off a bunch of stuff that typically needs replacement when the car hits 75k+ miles). I planned on daily driving this car, and keeping it until it wasn't worth fixing anymore, so it would have been silly to fork out an additional 10-15k just for a lower mileage example.

So what are the essentials that should be done in your opinion for a high mileage M3?

Originally Posted by kamber

You're in CA, so definitely get ANY M3 you consider purchasing PPI'd at a reputable BMW Indy shop (there are a couple known-good shops in your state). I personally couldn't give a single flying f**k about a PPI by a dealership, as I had one performed before and it missed a ton of things. Typical dealership uselessness. YMMV, depending on your relationship with the specific dealership and how much you trust their reputation/ability to perform a thorough and actually helpful PPI.

Definitely going to start looking for a shop to do this for me. I just hope I can find a good one that won't screw me over and will be willing to work with me and not charge an arm and a leg.

Originally Posted by kamber

No idea on the warranties; I bought my car on the cheap expecting to put money into it maintenance-wise and mod-wise. Just made sure that major stuff was unlikely to need replacement via maintenance history, and had no problem correcting the minor issues/maintenance myself. Since buying it, I've basically modded it as a I pleased, changed ALL the fluids to fresh fluids from brands of my choosing, and slowly corrected all the minor issues that I was aware and unaware of (remember that shitty PPI I had done at a useless dealership? hehe). Thoroughly enjoying it still.

Did you buy from a private party? I'm considering it because I feel like aside from Carfax dealerships provide next to nothing.

Originally Posted by kamber

Also, FWIW, if that M3 being sold by the Ford dealership is bone stock and has not had throttle actuators or rod bearings replaced, I wouldn't pay more than $22k for it. If it was heavily modded previously and then subsequently un-modded, I would pay even less for it or not touch it. At that mileage, I wouldn't touch it unless the dealership can provide detailed service records/maintenance history.

With that being said I might tell them they need to drop the price or start showing me some papers with proof of the throttle actuators and rod bearings replaced.

Originally Posted by kamber

TLDR: If your budget is ~30k, just be smart, discerning, and patient about your selection/purchase process and you'll be just fine. I'm confident you can find a good example to pull the trigger on that has major maintenance items already taken care of, at a good value that won't break the bank.

Thanks a lot for your help and your reply! I have been searching and researching to find that perfect car, and I definitely know A LOT more now.

[redpriest]

I wouldn't hesitate to get this car as long as you had a warranty. You never know how the previous owner treated the car, and PPI won't catch all the issues.

That being said, my car's still running 110k miles after I bought her - I'm the second owner of my E92, bought at 41k miles, I have 153k miles + 45 track days on the car.

Here's the list of things that went wrong outside of consumables:

* DCT oil pan ~52k miles - was leaking. Got the DCT pan and side gaskets replaced under BMW Goodwill. Would have been a 2k-ish repair otherwise.

* Valve cover gaskets started weeping ~ 130k miles. Replaced both, mostly labor costs to get to the valve cover. Don't remember the cost but it wasn't extensive.

* Valve chain tensioner broke - plastic chain guide inside the engine. Sounded awful as the chain would slap against the side of the car at idle. ~$700.

* Fried footwell lighting module - $500 for the part to replace + coding at ~ 140k miles.

* Car wouldn't start or power any electronics. Car alarm goes off when you try to unlock it - some electrical gremlin. Learned to tap DME or wiggle cables near battery fuse box to get the car to "wake up". Annoying quirk, but work aroundable.

* Bouncing idle with occasional stall only immediately after fuel up. This is probably a bad fuel tank vent breather valve. It hasn't been annoying me that much to replace.

I got a USAA warranty to cover me from 55k-90k miles. Nothing ever went wrong during that time frame, lol. Still would do it again.

The car is fantastic to drive and have given me way more smiles than frowns.

[kamber]

Originally Posted by dainesedan

So what are the essentials that should be done in your opinion for a high mileage M3?

Did you buy from a private party? I'm considering it because I feel like aside from Carfax dealerships provide next to nothing.

I wouldn't say anything is absolutely essential per-say, but I would factor it into my budget, and subsequently, my offer price, if a major maintenance item that I require for peace of mind wasn't performed prior to the purchase. It's all about what you're comfortable with.

In my opinion, what you're trying to take advantage of when buying a higher mileage vehicle, is to look for the previous owner to have paid for major maintenance items because he/she will never get as much $$$ out when they sell the vehicle as they put in (similar to the golden rule with modifications). It's most likely going to cost you more to buy a car without rod bearings and throttle actuators done, have the work performed post-purchase out of your own pocket, than to have bought the car with the work already performed.

Example: I would have been perfectly content to buy the car that I did without rod bearings and throttle actuators replaced, but I would have offered $4K-$5K less for it, since that is how much those 2 jobs would cost given the average going rates at reputable shops.

Realistically, most sellers that have M3's without those two items done arn't going to adjust their prices -$4K just because those items arn't done; they'll say that the car works fine as is and that they don't require replacement currently. Most of the time, they will be absolutely honest and correct in saying so. However, as a buyer that is looking to keep the car for a long time, you would be smart to factor/budget those items in as an eventual necessity given the nature of BMW's and what we know about the E9X M3, so think and act accordingly at the time of purchase. Do cars regularly go 90K+ mileage without rod bearings and throttle actuators done? Certainly. Would I want to chance it on my personal vehicle? Absolutely not.

I did purchase from a private party. I would not discourage you from buying something from Carmax or a dealership, just know that it will fall on YOU to do the digging as far as service records, etc. goes. Again, try to get the VIN of a vehicle you're interested in to someone who can run it through a BMW dealership's system to see the service history, if the break-in oil change/service was done on time, etc. There are plenty of good examples sold thru Carmax and the like, it's just a little harder to screen said vehicles to determine which one's are great examples and which ones you are better off passing on.

[loveskiing]

Originally Posted by kamber

Keep in mind that the following post is just one man's perspective (mine):

I was in a similar boat back in July when I started looking.

You're in a good spot, because I would argue that it's definitely a buyer's market right now, and you're in CA which likely has the largest concentration of used M3's available on the West Coast. Sure, there are a ton of M3's that are still priced quite high, but I'd venture to guess that most of them are not selling unless they are pristine ultra low mileage examples or something unique/special. I wholeheartedly wish that I waited another 4 months before purchasing mine, the buyer's market was awesome this past Autumn. If you're not the kind of guy that prefers to or needs to buy a lower mileage example and is comfortable with paying less for a higher mileage vehicle, I'd say you have a ton of options.

My goal was to find a higher mileage E90 6MT. My reasoning was this; I didn't really feel like paying the price premium for an M3 in the 40-60k mileage bracket just to drive it another 1-2 years and have to perform a ton of maintenance on items like throttle actuators, rod bearings, ICV, thermostat, water pump, fuel pump, coil packs, belts, etc (I'm just shooting off a bunch of stuff that typically needs replacement when the car hits 75k+ miles). I planned on daily driving this car, and keeping it until it wasn't worth fixing anymore, so it would have been silly to fork out an additional 10-15k just for a lower mileage example.

So, I looked specifically for an older, higher mileage vehicle that had a detailed maintenance history and already had major items like throttle actuators and rod bearings replaced (if anything else on that short list was replaced it would just be a bonus). For reference, I ended up paying $23.5k for a 90k mileage E90 6MT with TA, rod bearings, ICV, misc belts, entire transmission, and 1x coil pack replaced within the past 20K mileage, came with ~$3K worth (worth to me, in terms of how much I could get for them if I parted them out off the car) of mods (Ohlin's R&T, Megan cat-back + ACM test pipes, Lux angel eyes, ESS N/A tune, BMW performance steering wheel, Challenge CF trunk, misc other small stuff) and ~$2k worth of issues to be fixed (bumper re-spray needed, undercarriage felt needed replacing, coding issue with angel eyes, intake box screw hole threads stripped, clearcoat defect on Challenge CF trunk).

You're in CA, so definitely get ANY M3 you consider purchasing PPI'd at a reputable BMW Indy shop (there are a couple known-good shops in your state). I personally couldn't give a single flying f**k about a PPI by a dealership, as I had one performed before and it missed a ton of things. Typical dealership uselessness. YMMV, depending on your relationship with the specific dealership and how much you trust their reputation/ability to perform a thorough and actually helpful PPI.

No idea on the warranties; I bought my car on the cheap expecting to put money into it maintenance-wise and mod-wise. Just made sure that major stuff was unlikely to need replacement via maintenance history, and had no problem correcting the minor issues/maintenance myself. Since buying it, I've basically modded it as a I pleased, changed ALL the fluids to fresh fluids from brands of my choosing, and slowly corrected all the minor issues that I was aware and unaware of (remember that shitty PPI I had done at a useless dealership? hehe). Thoroughly enjoying it still.

There are users on here that work for BMW or have access to the system that could probably hook you up with service records/maintenance history if you provided them the VIN number. I recall seeing posts about this made in the past. I would definitely do that if you had no other service records provided by the seller.

Checkout this thread to get a "rough" idea of how good of a deal you can realistically shoot for: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366319

Also, FWIW, if that M3 being sold by the Ford dealership is bone stock and has not had throttle actuators or rod bearings replaced, I wouldn't pay more than $22k for it. If it was heavily modded previously and then subsequently un-modded, I would pay even less for it or not touch it. At that mileage, I wouldn't touch it unless the dealership can provide detailed service records/maintenance history.

TLDR: If your budget is ~30k, just be smart, discerning, and patient about your selection/purchase process and you'll be just fine. I'm confident you can find a good example to pull the trigger on that has major maintenance items already taken care of, at a good value that won't break the bank.

This