06-29-2015, 10:22 AM | #1 |
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Warning: This review may upset a few people, as I'm going to say things some of them will not want to hear. If you're just getting started in tracking the F80, read this before making any mods.
Car: F80 - DCT - New PSS Tires - ATe TYP200 Brake Fluid - Passive Suspension - Steel Brakes (no performance mod other than coded Euro MDM) Track: Raceway Park of the Midlands (RPM) Setting: Sport + / Sport + / MDM (Euro) This is my second time on the track with the F80, I didn't want to write a review from the first time. I've done SCCA cones in the past, which really helped me understand the dynamic of the car / weight transfer. The F8x is a complete beast on the track. Referencing the map below, the first straightaway I hit about 130mph / late braking into the first corner at marker 3 / downshift from 5th to 3rd / and carried through the S turns. After turn 4, it spits me out the corner at 90mph then accelerates to 110mph where I brake again at maker 2.5 to hang "patience corner" turn 5 in 3rd gear. I pushed the rpm up, shift to 4th, then down to 3rd braking at marker 2 to carry through 7th and 8th. Spun up to 95mph, down to 3rd, short brake at marker 2 of turn 9 to shift the weight forward then short brake again before entering 10. Same thing for 12/13 with more speed carried through, while remaining in 3rd. One of the top instructors took my car on the track, he said it will take him years to extract my car to its maximum potential. He had a big smile after driving it. Here are my thoughts of the F8x. Chassis: Our car's chassis is more rigid than a Lexus LFA. While planted in my seat, I can feel everything the car is doing. It's simply amazing how quick this car reacts to inputs and without getting upset. The stock chassis takes 40,000nm to flex 1mm, which is almost twice as rigid compared to the Z06. So that means roll bars on an F8x is a RICE mod. Power: Being able to hit 130mph on the straight of this small track puts it in the Z06 category. The instructors of the E9x M3 top off at 120mph here, stock. There's no need to upgrade the power, unless you drag race or just want bragging rights. Someone else had a 335i with JB4, her car overheated after a couple sessions. She yanked the tune off the rest of the weekend. The fuel quality at the track upset the tune probably. In stock form, my car did fine even with 91 octane. The car's cooling capability continues to impress me. The inter cooler is cold to the touch after a hot 90 degree session. My buddy's S4 supercharger was super hot. There were 2 C7 Z06 on the track, both suffered from overheating and their engines went into limp mode. This means the M3/M4 will smoke the new Z06 in an endurance race. Suspension: The passive suspension is quite impressive. It's smooth for daily driving, yet stepped up in the corners. It allows just enough roll to have a great weight transfer, especially through the S turns. Despite what many of you think, lowering the car doesn't make it go faster. The M engineers have done their homework here. Unless you're an F1 driver, please don't tell me you "need" better suspension for the F8x. Great suspension is just covering up bad driving techniques. You'll never going to extract the max performance out of these cars. I will consider high-end Club Sport coilovers one day, but for now I'm very happy of how my car dances on the track. I spot checked the tire temp, a tiny bit more camber should help with tire wear but not crucial. Brakes: After 2 track weekends, I still have 70% brakes left. I'm very impressed with these steel brakes, no fading even after turn one going from 130mph to 65mph late braking. Those who thinks our OEM brake sucks either track more than 4 weekends/yr, running R-Compound Tires, or just simply doing it wrong. The key of braking is either be on it or off of it. Brake with authority, then let off to let the brakes cool between corners. On the last lap, cruise at 65mph and don't touch the brakes. Oh, never touch your hand brakes after a session. You don't need to upgrade the pads unless you run R compound tires. Stock pads are fine, your eye balls want to pop out at hard braking once the PSS tires warm up to 120 degrees. Tires: After 7x20min sessions, the PSS were still awesome. Cold PSI is 31, then heated up to 155 degrees @ 37.5psi all around. The side walls were stiff and rolled just to the right spot. I wore off about 20% for the weekend (a bit more on the outer edge), not too bad. Conclusion: The F8x is a well designed car for the track. Little understeer and very predictable oversteer. Unless you're racing for prizes or stay on the track for more than 25min at times, you don't need to upgrade anything before getting on the track. You can drive the F8x scary fast and will pass most road going cars. Once you track for a full year or 4 weekends, then decide what you need to upgrade. I recommend just race compound tires and pads. That's the most bang for your money for track performance. Just keep in mind to use your brakes with authority and take the smoothest lines to go fast with little tire wear. As for "nannies," I kept mine with Euro MDM. Other instructors kept their M3 at MDM as well. Unless you're an F1 driver, please don't tell me you don't need any "nannies" either. Euro MDM allows the back to kick out just enough to maneuver through tight corners without intervening. If you're about to spin, it will save your ass. You can never react quicker than the computer. Don't be "that guy" on the track who thinks he's too cool for "nannies" and ended up going home on a flatbed. Smooth = Fast. Learn to drive smoother/faster instead of buying parts to cover up your driving flaws. I hope this is helpful for the new track guys. FYI: My signature will always be "novice track level." We're all "novice" until we get paid to drive on the track. I'm faster than some instructors on the track, but that doesn't win me any money. I'm just honing my skills to be faster in my own car, bragging rights mean nothing to me.
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Last edited by JNoSol; 06-29-2015 at 04:32 PM.. |
06-29-2015, 11:18 AM | #2 |
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Thanks for the post. Always great to hear about others' experiences.
I do think the key here is the completely stock car is fine for "4 weekends or less" per year users (or i think what you are saying are "complete novices") I feel the base assumption is that at some point Tires and brake pads will need to be changed, and camber plates will help a lot. The stock pads will smear and leave uneven deposits and the stock pss outside edge will be very worn out in the front. I think when this happens depends on the individual's experience pre m3 Completely agree, car is great stock but tweaks will be needed |
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06-29-2015, 11:24 AM | #3 | |
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06-29-2015, 02:40 PM | #5 | ||||
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Thanks a lot for sharing your feedback. It is always fun reading impressions from fellow trackers. The F8X is really a blast to drive on track, glad you enjoyed it .
I'll offer a few counterpoints to ponder: Quote:
Quote:
Note that on the F8X (as with previous generation M3s), the parking brake resides in a drum inside the disc hub, so there is no issues with using the parking brake in the pits after a session.. Quote:
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While keeping the nannies on maintains a safety net, there comes a point where the nannies will slow you down and prevent full enjoyment of the great F8X chassis. There is also a risk with keeping the nannies on for too long, that is when the times come to take them off. I have seen way too many "advanced" students have incidents when turning the nannies off because they have been relying on them for so long (overdriving the car).
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Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black Last edited by CanAutM3; 06-29-2015 at 05:25 PM.. |
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06-29-2015, 02:47 PM | #6 |
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Good track day summary. I plan on new pads and fluid for my brakes when I start tracking it, as well as a set of R-Comps (mostly so I can not destroy my daily driver tires).
I do have about 25 track days behind me, in my previous car (a twin turbo'ed G35, about 400 rwhp, and a bit lighter than the M4)
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06-29-2015, 03:02 PM | #7 | |
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Also, is the M4 chassis really more rigid than the LFA's?
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06-29-2015, 04:07 PM | #8 | |
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06-29-2015, 04:13 PM | #9 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
http://blogs.youwheel.com/2014/04/25...ehensive-list/ Our chassis is designed with racing in mind. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1005164
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06-29-2015, 04:20 PM | #10 |
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CanAutM3 Agreed with you. Mod should be considered if you track 4 or more times per year to maximize grip/tire wear. The PSS is good, but do get bit greasy on the last lap of the 20min session so I had to back off from it. OEM brakes combined with R-compound tires aren't a good idea. Always match race pads with race tires. Good point on lowering (slightly). Too much lowering will upset the roll center. Some dedicated track cars actually sit higher than OEM, it varies from chassis to chassis. Our cars are very low in the rear. If you lower the front to fill the gap, you'll have to lower to rear to not upset the weight balance. This is where the average person fail when it comes to lowering their cars.
Thanks for your input.
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06-29-2015, 04:38 PM | #11 |
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Glad you had a great time but I don't understand this post.
You talk about technique yet you drive with nannies on - isn't that the exact opposite of learning how to control a car. IMO if you can't catch a car from spinning, you shouldn't be driving at that speed yet. I never understood people who get Rcomps but still rely on driving aid assistance. PSS - are the M4 PSS any different than other cars because these are awful track tires. Melted mine in 2 sessions. Suspension setup will enhance the performance if set up correctly, as well as confidence. Plus some like suspension setup more biased towards the track vs the street. Lastly, yes we are all "novices" because we do not get paid, but there are people with dramatic differences in skill levels at any track day, you can't just lump them all together right? |
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06-29-2015, 05:00 PM | #12 | |
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Once a driver knows his/her car very well (about 6-8 weekends), then turning all nannies off is acceptable. It's laughable to see these guys who think they're badasses not using MDM and hit the wall on the first weekend out with the car they just bought. You melted your PSS after 2 sessions? Are you drifting? PSS is the highest rated trackable street tires on the market. I only used 20% after 7x20min sessions. That's not driving like a grandma either. 130mph straights, late braking, late apex. BMW does have specific PSS, but it's not far off from the ones off the shelf. Unless you have well paid sponsors and drive for living, you're still a student of driving. You're still learning new things every-time you hit the track. I call myself a novice golfer as well. The last time I looked in the mail, Nike hasn't sent me a check for using their golf clubs.
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06-29-2015, 05:03 PM | #13 | |
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But I disagree, I say you turn off MDM and start by driving slow. I'm not in the disagree with DCT camp, because I'd have fun with it as well. You start with MDM and start to get faster, then you get used to driving at a certain speed and when you turn it off, that's when big mistakes happen. Therefore, I personally believe in starting with it off. Nothing wrong with going slow at first but learning how to control a car. It pays off. |
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06-29-2015, 05:08 PM | #14 |
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Not all students are the same level though. Some are basically in kindergarten and will never graduate from kindergarten while others are at Ivy League college level.
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06-29-2015, 05:17 PM | #15 | |
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06-29-2015, 05:36 PM | #16 | |
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MDM will tell you when but it won't allow you to practice how to react. Patient pays off!! I'm a very impatient guy too. Me noob: Me now (still noob but a year later): Tremendous difference. |
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06-29-2015, 05:43 PM | #17 |
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Appreciate the review and I agree with a lot of you're opinions, but will disagree on using the nannies for more than a day or two unless you're a beginner. Nothing new here, it's really the two different schools of thought that have been around for awhile.
M3 Number 86: great car control, but I think you're an extreme example. Most noobs wouldn't have the guts to get their car that loose on their second track day.
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WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352 Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889 Last edited by MaynardZed; 06-29-2015 at 06:13 PM.. |
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06-29-2015, 05:54 PM | #18 | |
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With regards to skill levels, there are amateurs in any sport that are as good as, or better than, many of the professionals. You call those guys advanced amateurs. Or skilled amateurs, or whatever adjective you want. You call the crappy professionals....losers. heh.
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06-29-2015, 05:59 PM | #19 | |
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06-29-2015, 06:01 PM | #20 | |
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FYI: Euro MDM does allow the rear kick out enough for you to intervene. It gives you a chance to correct it before kicking in. Best of both worlds. I absolutely love it.
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06-29-2015, 06:12 PM | #21 | |
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A key point that CanAutM3 made is that even euro mdm is making corrections that don't flash the TC light. i.e. you might getting incorrect information of what inputs it takes to go over the traction limit |
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06-29-2015, 06:33 PM | #22 | |
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That's why slowly but surely - I just make the car get out of control on safe zones when cars aren't around. :thumbsup |
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