Z4M vs. Base C6 Vette on Track

[esqu1re]

Originally Posted by RussRamz

I might agree with you on every point except suspension design. I have no idea about the aerodynamics, but from experience I can tell you I have had no competition with any corvette model except a ZR1 which was brutally powerful.

I drove a friends C6 corvette on the ring about two years ago. It was frightening. The suspension and brakes and tires are not up to the task. The 'vette will have an advantage in a straight line drag vs. the Z4M, but that's about it. Strap some better tires on the Z4M and it smokes the C6. Put a better set of brakes and a set of competition tires on the Z4M and it will put the Z-06 to bed on the ring.

What have you done to your z4m? Is it mostly stock engine wise??

[bhoch]

I don't know.. but most arguments that have one of the cars with better brakes, tires, suspension, etc.. really just makes the argument closed as anyone with the $$$ can make practically any car better then another one. This is especially true if the cars are already pretty good in the first place.

I'm sure I can change a Z06 to be a lot better on the track.. or change a Z4MC to be a lot better to if I had the $$$.

Having had both a Vette and now the the Z4, these are both really nice cars that have a lot of good going for them.

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by r4gs

^definitely was z4m roadster vs dodge viper -

. clarkson didn't have many positives to sing home about the m though.

I've noted that Clarkson has often complained about the E85 Z4's ride, while lately he has been delighted with the ride and comfort of the newest Z4. I can only conclude that the man, while an accomplised and knowledgeable driver, has very bad hemorrhoids. In fact, I think he is one 6'5" hemorrhoid.

[pokeybritches]

Originally Posted by RussRamz

I might agree with you on every point except suspension design. I have no idea about the aerodynamics, but from experience I can tell you I have had no competition with any corvette model except a ZR1 which was brutally powerful.

I drove a friends C6 corvette on the ring about two years ago. It was frightening. The suspension and brakes and tires are not up to the task. The 'vette will have an advantage in a straight line drag vs. the Z4M, but that's about it. Strap some better tires on the Z4M and it smokes the C6. Put a better set of brakes and a set of competition tires on the Z4M and it will put the Z-06 to bed on the ring.

What problem did you find with the stock braking system (honest question)? I've had the fluid boil, which will be changed this weekend. After that I expect the pads to be the weak point, and basically anyone who tracks the car swaps the pads. I figure it's pretty hard to hit the thermal capacity of the stock rotors, so no need for an upgrade. What warrants a brake "upgrade?"

[pokeybritches]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

I've noted that Clarkson has often complained about the E85 Z4's ride, while lately he has been delighted with the ride and comfort of the newest Z4. I can only conclude that the man, while an accomplised and knowledgeable driver, has very bad hemorrhoids. In fact, I think he is one 6'5" hemorrhoid.

Very much so. Top Gear is entertainment. No more, no less. They bend the truth with style.

[r4gs]

^clarkson's uncanny, unbridled automotive entertainment at its best, but his taste and perception of cars in general is rather unusual. still good fun to watch though!

[Shipkiller]

In my last track weekend, as a few have already said, I as able to hold my own or accelerate in the turns against the Z06, but on the straights, the power that the Vett has is awesome and would leave me in the dust...

Would not trade my M for a ZR1.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by RussRamz

I might agree with you on every point except suspension design. I have no idea about the aerodynamics, but from experience I can tell you I have had no competition with any corvette model except a ZR1 which was brutally powerful.

I drove a friends C6 corvette on the ring about two years ago. It was frightening. The suspension and brakes and tires are not up to the task. The 'vette will have an advantage in a straight line drag vs. the Z4M, but that's about it. Strap some better tires on the Z4M and it smokes the C6. Put a better set of brakes and a set of competition tires on the Z4M and it will put the Z-06 to bed on the ring.

Well the corvette uses double wishbones which are superior to the mac strut/multi link setup bmw uses. The spring rates & dampers might not be suited to a particular track such as the ring, but as you know those are easily changable on any car.

The stock CSL brake stuff isn't really up to par with heavy tracking either to be honest. Don't forget all corvettes come with crappy runflat tires stock, so even our garbage contisports are superior tires to what the vette wears.

I will concede the one major difference between the coupe/m3 & a vette is that the BMW's are much easier to drive near the limit, but ultimately in experienced hands the vette is a more capable machine.

[DaveL--2mnycars]

We had an '06 MRoadster and an '06 Vette (Coupe, 6 speed, ZR1, runflats)

Sold the Vette.

It was extremely uncomfortable. Tires tracked in grooves on worn twisty roads. Couldn't remove the roof and stow it if we were carrying gear on a trip (need to carry/can't leave some medical equipment behind if I'm staying over.)

Armrests are in just the wrong spot. Constantly banging my elbow when I'm on the passenger side.

Won't even mention the crazy 1-4 shift when revs are low...


Great car; just not any fun for me.

DaveL

[Master Apex]

There are several variants of C6:
Base C6
C6 with Z51 suspension
C6 Grand Sport
C6 Z06
C6 ZR1

I almost bought C6 Z51 but decided to get Z4M for its overall package (styling, 8k RPM, handling at limit, etc).
I do agree with Serious, on the hand of experienced drivers, on the track, Z4M is slghtly better than base C6 but is no match to C6 Z51 or higher level of C6s.
I have driven both C6 Z51 and C6 Z06 at the track, the steering and chassis are not as "communicative" but if you trust it, their suspension geometry is superior to Z4M and will provide higher grip at the track. I still like my Z4M for its "fun" but I know I am faster (laptime) on comparably equipped C6 Z51 or higher level C6.

Just check of Car and Driver summary of lightning lap, driven by same driver on the same track...There is certain degree of driver's familiarity with the car so anything within 3s on 3minutes laptime, I'd consider them close.
In term track laptime, our Z4M is not at the same level as 2008 C6 Z51 or higher.
The gap is too big.

CAR LAP TIME
Mosler MT900S 02:45.9
Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe ACR 02:48.6
Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 02:51.8
KTM X-Bow 02:52.3
Lamborghini Murcielago LP670-4 SV 02:53.9
Ferrari 430 Scuderia 02:54.6
Nissan GT-R 02:55.6
Dodge Viper SRT10 02:57.4
Ariel Atom 3 02:57.6
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 02:58.2
2010 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport 02:58.8
Nissan GT-R (all-season tires) 02:59.0
Audi R8 5.2 FSI Quattro 02:59.5
Ford GT 03:00.7
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 03:01.1
2009 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 03:01.2
Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe 03:01.6
Porsche 911 GT3 03:01.8
2008 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 03:03.6
Cadillac CTS-V 03:04.0
Lotus Exige S 03:04.5
Audi R8 03:04.6
Lotus Exige S 260 Sport 03:05.0
BMW M3 03:05.4
BMW M3 03:05.6
Porsche Cayman S 320HP 03:05.8
Porsche 911 Turbo 03:05.8
Porsche 911 Carrera S 03:05.8
Ford Shelby GT500 03:05.9
Jaguar XKR 03:06.4
Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG 03:06.5
Ford Shelby GT500 03:07.4
Audi TTS 03:08.4
Lotus Elise 03:09.2
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 03:09.3
Porsche Cayman S 295 HP 03:09.5
Chevrolet Camaro SS 03:09.5
BMW M6 03:10.0
BMW 335i Coupe 03:10.5
Audi S4 03:10.8
Ford Shelby GT500 03:11.0
Audi RS4 03:11.2
BMW Z4 M Coupe 03:11.7
Nissan 370Z NISMO 03:12.0

[3002 tii]

how did the s4 beat out the rs4?

[Erhan]

More importantly, how the hell Ford Shelby GT500 or 335i beat the Z4 MC?

[jragan]

20 buck says they were on the stock Continentals and they had DSC activated.

[Serious]

The mz4 was run on damp/partly wet drying track. The 335 was run on a fully dry track.

[FerRrari]

I could care less if there are faster car than the M, there's always going to be something faster. For me it's all about the driving experience, and as long as the M keeps the grin in my face when I drive it I don't really care about these pointless arguments.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by Serious

The mz4 was run on damp/partly wet drying track.

According to Clarkson... that should be good for about 4 seconds

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by Serious

The mz4 was run on damp/partly wet drying track. The 335 was run on a fully dry track.

Damn it Any time there is a Z4 M time posted it is on a wet or damp track

[silversprint]

Originally Posted by spurto

i think an ESS Z4M vs the Z06 would make an interesting race.....hmmmm how about the Z4M vs Ditka?

Not really. The Z06 still has more, is lighter, has bigger tires, better brakes, and a transmission and diff that won't grenade from the added stress of the supercharger.

Anyone that thinks a z4m is faster on a track has never driven a z51 corvette on a race track. The z06 is hard to drive but a z51 LS3 corvette is very forgiving car that is a joy to track.

The down side to the LS2 LS3 motors is they have a wet sump and can get oil starvation under high G cornering.

I drove a Z51 LS3 at a local track day and even at 7/10s it was still about 5 second faster than a my z4m. The steering was a little numb but the shifter was better. It was astonishing how hard that car pulls out of corners.

Build quality aside, the corvette is simply a faster car.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by silversprint

and a transmission and diff that won't grenade from the added stress of the supercharger.

Um, didn't know @ 7lbs or so this would be an issue. I'm planning on going this route when I'm out of warranty. Are our diffs/tranny fragile or something?

[jragan]

Originally Posted by johanness

Um, didn't know @ 7lbs or so this would be an issue. I'm planning on going this route when I'm out of warranty. Are our diffs/tranny fragile or something?

I think he's talking out of his A$$ on this one. He'll be hard pressed to provide ANY evidence of this.

[DaveL--2mnycars]

Originally Posted by FerRrari

I could care less if there are faster car than the M, there's always going to be something faster. For me it's all about the driving experience, and as long as the M keeps the grin in my face when I drive it I don't really care about these pointless arguments.

Instant therapy.

The wonderful thing is that we have choices. Makes for better driving.

DaveL

[STIHLBOLTS]

Well when I pulled in to resturant for dinner last night I had people staring at the car. You just don't get that with a vett. Why? Because they are a dime a dozen. We have a damn cool car and by comparison volume built a pretty rare one.