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01-31-2013, 04:21 PM | #1 |
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Castrol TWS vs EDGE (both 10w60)
I picked up some bulk oil from a seller on the forums and got a mix of TWS 10w60 and Edge 10w60. Both say that they are formulated for M engines.
However, the BMW part number on the Edge is different (83 12 2 219 730) and realoem.com indicates this to be for a BMW motorcycle (HP2 Sport K29). Now I know Castrol is in the midst of re-branding all their synthetic oils to EDGE and was wondering if some of you have started getting this oil from your dealers as well? Here are side by side pics - Old part number - |
01-31-2013, 04:52 PM | #3 |
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It's interesting that the dealers and ECS are selling the EDGE Professional TWS 10w60 now. My guess is that Castrol just wants to sell EDGE branded oils now. But what's curious to me is that the EDGE Professional has a BMW K29 motorcycle oil part number stamped on the label ...
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01-31-2013, 05:41 PM | #5 | |
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Castrol EDGE Professional TWS 10w60 Kinematic: 22.7 mm2/s (22.7 cSt) at 100°C Color: Amber[Light] Odor: Mild Flashpoint: 203°C (397.4°) Castrol TWS Motorsport 10w60 Kinematic: 24.5 mm2/s (24.5 cSt) at 100°C Color: Brown Odor: Oily Flashpoint: 200°C (392°F) |
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01-31-2013, 09:24 PM | #7 |
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Differences in specs sort of depend on the whole scale of the measurement - are those differences statistically different do you think? Are they different enough to be a concern?
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02-01-2013, 12:18 PM | #8 |
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02-01-2013, 10:10 PM | #9 | |
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On a race track in the summer, I have some doubts as oil temps are in the 230-240°F range and the new oil will have lower viscosity. Whether that increases bearing wear (a weak point on this engine), I won't know until I get some Blackstone reports this year. I will report back. Since most dealers are selling this, I will use the oil and let objective oil analysis help decide whether I will keep using this or switch. Spec sheets from Castrol - Castrol EDGE Professional TWS 10w60 Spec Castrol TWS Motorsport 10w60 Spec Last edited by pal; 02-01-2013 at 10:19 PM.. |
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02-01-2013, 11:44 PM | #10 |
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A bit more info regarding the properties of both oils:
Edge Professional TWS - http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/Fu...E-8HMJF5_0.pdf TWS Motorsport - http://www.aral.de/assets/bp_interne...rsport_TDS.pdf |
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02-02-2013, 09:12 AM | #11 |
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With a little research, it appears that Red Line 10W-60 more closely matches TWS Motorsport oil than Edge. It has a Viscosity index of 182 and slightly higher viscosities at 40C and 100C.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?product=11704 Too bad they fail to mention that it is recommended for Z3M/Z4M's (however they get every other S54 application). Maybe Redline is worth trying out. |
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02-02-2013, 09:55 AM | #12 | |
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02-02-2013, 10:49 AM | #14 | |
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the Z4M is not a legitimate M car, remember??
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02-02-2013, 11:11 AM | #15 |
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6.7 vs 5.2 mPA.s? http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf%5C...63_2011_10.pdf
TWS has always been at the low end of the "60" weight scale. Redline is definitely more viscous across the range, but also will have lower flow rates and potentially higher temperatures and pressures due to it's properties. The question is, is 5.2 mPa.s good enough under high stress levels? |
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02-02-2013, 11:14 AM | #16 | |
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The upgrade in API specification indicates that this is a better performing product overall.
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02-02-2013, 11:27 AM | #17 |
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Does anyone have opinions on Liqui Moly Race Tech GT1 oil - 10W-60?
(bavauto doesn't have any links I can copy here, but it's easy to find). From what I researched, a lot of M5 guys tried it out and seem to have "approved" it. It also sounds like that's what BMW uses in EU?
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02-02-2013, 12:19 PM | #18 | |
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02-02-2013, 12:21 PM | #19 | |
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I do sample testing, so it will be interesting to see the results next year.
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02-02-2013, 12:46 PM | #20 |
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02-02-2013, 01:47 PM | #21 |
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TMS uses Motul in the GT cars... Not sure on the grade; asked Will during the live blog at Daytona last Saturday and he either didn't know or wouldn't reveal it...
http://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/produc...iscosity%5D=37
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02-02-2013, 02:58 PM | #22 |
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Here is the bit of a quandary in increasing the oil viscocity such that the oil has a higher HTHS:
The dynamic viscocity (DV) and kinematic viscocity (KV) are generally related in Newtonian fluids (such as oil) by the formula DV = KV x SG, where SG is the specific gravity of the fluid. The KV is measured and quoted as a flow rate through a standardised capillary tube between an upper and lower fluid reservoir in a calibrated apparatus. This means that a quoted DV at 150°C for one oil that is 25% more viscous than another oil would cause 25% more resistance to flow at a given temperature. At high RPMs on an engine that is warmed up, you want to be at the maximum oil pressure (on the S54 this is regulated to 4.0 bar). What this means is that because the oil is incompressible and the design engineers will expect maximum oil pressure to be reached before maximum revs with the designated oil, a 25% more viscous oil will have 25% less flow when in the expected oil pressure relief valve bypass mode at maximum revs. 25% less oil flow will lead to less cooling and hotter running in areas of the engine such as the underside of the pistons. The lower flow through the whole of the oiling system may mean cooler oil at the oil cooler (the oil spends more time being cooled due to lower flow rate), but overall the effect will be a change in temperature gradients, with the hotter parts getting hotter and the cooler parts getting cooler. The big-ends may run cooler, but the little-ends (wrist pins) may run hotter to the extent that the thicker oil may run a lot thinner there, thereby changing both the flow and temperature gradients further. Depending where the temperature sensor is and the overall change in flow and temperature characteristics, the oil gauge could indicate the engine is running cooler or hotter or the same. The only certainty is that the engine oiling characteristics will be different than the design engineers originally measured. |
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