I need an ///M doctor opinion

dubsesd · 05-03-2012, 05:20 PM

OP, what is the milage on your car? just curious if these bolts break within a certain milage bracket...

txz4 · 05-03-2012, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubsesd

OP, what is the milage on your car? just curious if these bolts break within a certain milage bracket...

from what ive seen its random. If your worried, when your car is cold you can stick a hand down and feel to see if the bolts have backed out on the side you cant get a visual on, i think you can see the other side.

Remember if you do this fix, you need to purchase the large bolts that hold the bottom reinforcement plate as they are one time use.

The HACK · 05-03-2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elerner61

Ah, another project!

Questions:
1. If using the Nordlocks, should loc-tite also be used? (seen both sides of this in posts, Nordlock website seems to say "no")
2. When using Motorsports bolts and Nordlocks it seems the torque spec. is 22Nm. What is the 59Nm +90 degree spec. I see mentioned.

As always, thanks!

IMO loctite (WTF? loctite auto corrects to LACTATE?) in this application is useless. The engine block can easily get hot enough to release the loctite which would then act more like a lubricant.

inTgr8r · 05-03-2012, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The HACK

IMO loctite (WTF? loctite auto corrects to LACTATE?) in this application is useless. The engine block can easily get hot enough to release the loctite which would then act more like a lubricant.

Depends which variant you use.
Loctite 2620 is good to 650 deg F

inTgr8r · 05-03-2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev

Correct 4 bolts for each mount.

I'd highly recommend looking into the NordLock washers (available thru places like McMaster Carr)

...

I like the theory behind the nordlocks.
my only issue for this application is that the load bearing surface area of the Nordlocks is less than the OE washer.
That's why I won't be using them.

IMO this whole bolt issue is getting over thought.
Why is it that the E46 M3 doesn't have the same problem?
I think it's QA assembley line issue.

elerner61 · 05-03-2012, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txz4

Remember if you do this fix, you need to purchase the large bolts that hold the bottom reinforcement plate as they are one time use.

Anyone got a part# for these one time use bolts?

Ron Stygar · 05-03-2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

IMO this whole bolt issue is getting over thought.
Why is it that the E46 M3 doesn't have the same problem?

Z3M too

Screws are not the problem.
.
.
.
.

JeffchaPz · 05-03-2012, 10:54 PM

Good evening my friends.

So the car is is out of warranty... The car has less than 33k. and since I hate the way 1st and 2nd gear feels even with the neo... trans mounts..... I went with the 75d motor mounts.

For $150, the worst that can happen is that you'll see them here for sale in a couple of weeks.... but if those mounts fix the notchy gears.... then I'll stick with them.

Since this is my dd car, I ordered the parts right away and they should be here tomorrow.
This stupid problem pretty much criples the car... I'm glad they didn't brake far away from home.

Anyhow, thank you all for your advice(s).

txz4 · 05-03-2012, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elerner61

Anyone got a part# for these one time use bolts?

"8 front axle reinforcement plate bolts (P/N 31106772199) – These are torque-to-yield bolts (aka one-time use)" - Courtesy of billswebspace

elerner61 · 05-04-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txz4

"8 front axle reinforcement plate bolts (P/N 31106772199) – These are torque-to-yield bolts (aka one-time use)" - Courtesy of billswebspace

Thanks! So everyone who has replaced their motor mount bolts has replaced these one-time bolts as well. Seems strange that in the detailed write ups that I've read this part of the process isn't focused on.

Also something that comes to mind is that the TSB is for the failure/loosening of the passenger side bolts, not the driver's side bolts. Yet, folks are replacing the driver's side as well. Have people had their driver's side bolts loosen on them?

elerner61 · 05-04-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txz4

When your car is cold, stick your hand down into your engine bay and you can feel the actual bolts if you know where to look.

For the life of me I can only feel one of the front bolts. Not a lot of room there to get my arm in, and I'm a mountain biking, tennis playing skinny assed boy!

Ron Stygar · 05-04-2012, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elerner61

Yet, folks are replacing the driver's side as well. Have people had their driver's side bolts loosen on them?

Is it driver side after passenger side start coming out?

Never heard a driver at the start.

Ron Stygar · 05-04-2012, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elerner61

For the life of me I can only feel one of the front bolts. Not a lot of room there to get my arm in, and I'm a mountain biking, tennis playing skinny assed boy!

Did you remove the reinforcement plate below the engine?

JeffchaPz · 05-04-2012, 03:03 PM

Hello people, what's the best spot to raise the engine so that I can get the motor mounts and bracket bolts replaced.... I'll find out exactly what's broken tonight..... just need to lift the engine a bit to get started.

Finnegan · 05-04-2012, 03:24 PM

IDK about the lift point.

When you get the new motor mounts in please report the NVH and impact, if any, on shifting quality and etc. I'll add it to the sticky. Those are poly mounts, right?

JeffchaPz · 05-04-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finnegan

IDK about the lift point.

When you get the new motor mounts in please report the NVH and impact, if any, on shifting quality and etc. I'll add it to the sticky. Those are poly mounts, right?

Yes sir... I also have the neo trans mounts.... I'll let you know once everything is back together.

elerner61 · 05-05-2012, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Stygar

Did you remove the reinforcement plate below the engine?

No, I'm just trying to do an inspection from above to see what the current condition is.

inTgr8r · 05-05-2012, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elerner61

No, I'm just trying to do an inspection from above to see what the current condition is.

If you pull the wheels & liners you can get to them.

JeffchaPz · 05-05-2012, 08:30 PM

Quick update:

If anyone bet money on the bracket bolts.... was right.
The bottom right is missing and the bottom left broke and half of it still inside

The picture of the first cat is what creates the vibration as you can see why.

XMetal · 05-06-2012, 12:21 AM

Why is this issue only happens on e85M/e86M and nothing else? No reports (not that I'm aware of) on regular e85/e86 or e46M

beta · 05-06-2012, 01:20 AM

SI B 22 01 09

"Prolonged heat exposure to the right side engine mount bracket, during the engine assembly process, may cause the bolts, which hold the engine bracket to the block, to lose the specified tightening torque."

I pre-emptively upgraded my bolts to the 10.9 bmw motorsport bolts + nord-lock washers with a high quality anti-seize.

Edit: Part numbers in this thread BMW Motorsport Engine Mount Bolts.

XMetal · 05-06-2012, 11:37 AM

Right...that is the "official" words from BMW. Since the M version runs through the same assembly line, why is it that the other Zs are not affected?

05-03-2012, 05:20 PM	#23
dubsesd #dubspec 6337 Rep 5,201 Posts Drives: G05 X5/ 2016 F80 M3 INDVL Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa iTrader: (2)	OP, what is the milage on your car? just curious if these bolts break within a certain milage bracket... __________________ LCI ///F80 M3 Individual Atlantis Metallic / Black Full / Carbon Cermics / 6MT MPE / M Performance & Carbon package / KW v3 / 20" HRE R101LW / 20" HRE 527s / Michelin PSS / 20% tint / 3d Design / Streckenn splitters / OEM GTS hood / EAS Carbon seatbacks / Carbon RKP sideskirt / Bootmod3 / M Performance Tri color alcantara / AWE S Flow instagram: @ dubsesd
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05-03-2012, 10:54 PM	#30
JeffchaPz Second Lieutenant 17 Rep 251 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4M Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	Good evening my friends. So the car is is out of warranty... The car has less than 33k. and since I hate the way 1st and 2nd gear feels even with the neo... trans mounts..... I went with the 75d motor mounts. For $150, the worst that can happen is that you'll see them here for sale in a couple of weeks.... but if those mounts fix the notchy gears.... then I'll stick with them. Since this is my dd car, I ordered the parts right away and they should be here tomorrow. This stupid problem pretty much criples the car... I'm glad they didn't brake far away from home. Anyhow, thank you all for your advice(s).
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-04-2012, 03:03 PM	#36
JeffchaPz Second Lieutenant 17 Rep 251 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4M Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	Hello people, what's the best spot to raise the engine so that I can get the motor mounts and bracket bolts replaced.... I'll find out exactly what's broken tonight..... just need to lift the engine a bit to get started.
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05-04-2012, 03:24 PM	#37
Finnegan Dog Listener 704 Rep 7,850 Posts Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Teaching the dog to slalom iTrader: (22)	IDK about the lift point. When you get the new motor mounts in please report the NVH and impact, if any, on shifting quality and etc. I'll add it to the sticky. Those are poly mounts, right?
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05-05-2012, 08:30 PM	#41
JeffchaPz Second Lieutenant 17 Rep 251 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4M Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	Quick update: If anyone bet money on the bracket bolts.... was right. The bottom right is missing and the bottom left broke and half of it still inside The picture of the first cat is what creates the vibration as you can see why. Attached Images
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05-06-2012, 12:21 AM	#42
XMetal Colonel 1138 Rep 2,867 Posts Drives: Anything Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 Z4M Coupe [10.00] 2018 Audi S3 [0.00] 2004 X5 [8.50]	Why is this issue only happens on e85M/e86M and nothing else? No reports (not that I'm aware of) on regular e85/e86 or e46M
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05-06-2012, 01:20 AM	#43
beta Lieutenant Colonel 80 Rep 1,663 Posts Drives: 2006 M Roadster Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: CA iTrader: (2)	SI B 22 01 09 "Prolonged heat exposure to the right side engine mount bracket, during the engine assembly process, may cause the bolts, which hold the engine bracket to the block, to lose the specified tightening torque." I pre-emptively upgraded my bolts to the 10.9 bmw motorsport bolts + nord-lock washers with a high quality anti-seize. Edit: Part numbers in this thread BMW Motorsport Engine Mount Bolts. __________________ modification journal Last edited by beta; 05-06-2012 at 01:26 AM..
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05-06-2012, 11:37 AM	#44
XMetal Colonel 1138 Rep 2,867 Posts Drives: Anything Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 Z4M Coupe [10.00] 2018 Audi S3 [0.00] 2004 X5 [8.50]	Right...that is the "official" words from BMW. Since the M version runs through the same assembly line, why is it that the other Zs are not affected?
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