Z4MC vs Elise/Exige

[The HACK]

I can't help but play arm-chair "instructor" here...

The dude in the Lotus was COASTING up that hill and bend. And as he crested the hill he continued to have his steering input even though at the crest of the hill the backend was going to get light and lose traction. It was inevitable. Rear wheel drive car, steering wheel cocked, very balanced chassis...No real understanding of high performance driving. This was a disaster waiting to happen.

[The HACK]

To prevent the spin from happening in the first place, as he crested the hill he should have "opened" up the steering wheel, meaning at the moment he crested the hill the steering wheel needs to be relatively straight for a very short moment as the rear end becomes "light" due to the momentum of the car carrying over the top of the hill. The other thing that should have been done is that the car needed some throttle input instead of trying to coast into a turn, effectively "engine braking" into the turn therefore putting more mass and grip to the front tires by taking them away from the rear tires.

It's impossible to explain with words. It absolutely needs to be experienced. Stuff like this is HPDE 101, covered in most of our basic classroom material then immediately experienced with an experienced instructor in your passenger seat (potentially demonstrating the "opening" of the wheel with some assist from the passenger side) in our BMW CCA events.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by The HACK

To prevent the spin from happening in the first place, as he crested the hill he should have "opened" up the steering wheel, meaning at the moment he crested the hill the steering wheel needs to be relatively straight for a very short moment as the rear end becomes "light" due to the momentum of the car carrying over the top of the hill. The other thing that should have been done is that the car needed some throttle input instead of trying to coast into a turn, effectively "engine braking" into the turn therefore putting more mass and grip to the front tires by taking them away from the rear tires.

It's impossible to explain with words. It absolutely needs to be experienced. Stuff like this is HPDE 101, covered in most of our basic classroom material then immediately experienced with an experienced instructor in your passenger seat (potentially demonstrating the "opening" of the wheel with some assist from the passenger side) in our BMW CCA events.

Folks, you don't need to be a track rat or even want to take up tracking as a hobby to benefit from HPDEs. The car control skills have applicability on and off the track. It's really something I feel everyone should do at their earliest chance. The car control clinic 'Kitty and I took last year had immediate and possibly life-saving benefits (no ****, two days after that), and the follow-up with instruction at the track has added a lot more on top of that. Weight transfer is always in the front of my mind while driving, along with a bunch of other stuff I had no idea about until I did this. I'm still a HPDE noob, but I know a hell of a lot more than I did 12 months ago about driving (not the least of which is that I don't know a lot) and look forward to adding to my knowledge/skills with practice!

[mhrir]

I love my Z4MC but its too porky. It should have weighed 200-300 lbs less but I blame BMW for stuffing in too many luxury features.

Love the S54! I shed a tear every time I think about the engine in the dorky looking 1M. The S54 will probably be the greatest engine ever made by BMW.

+1 with what Hack said. Question: If the driver had braked at the crest would that have made things worse? I will also add that judging by lack of leaves on the trees, the tires may not have been very warm and there appeared to be some moisture on the road before the crest. Driver error is still the major problem though.

[ZStig]

seats, battery, wheels/tires and you're already down a significant amount of weight

[beta]

I question if the exige is really a better track car, or if it really just comes down to personal preference. I know the M needs some upgrades to avoid brake fade during heavy track use, so out of the box the exige probably has an advantage.

If you look at the top gear power laps, the Z4 M stock is right between Exige and Exige S, and they're all within 1s of eachother.

Upgrading both cars, wouldn't it come down to driver more so than vehicle? Or would the faster 0-60 of the exige make a bigger difference on a track that wasn't biased towards handling?

The top gear test track was designed by lotus engineers to test handling/braking more than top speed.

[ZStig]

Themain reason the exige is faster 0-60 is because of the crazy 6000rpm clutch drop coupled with racelogic traction control that allows it do get there. Look at the 5-60 times..

You can fit the same system on a z4m for about $1k

[marinb]

It's funny how many of us cross shopped the z4m with the lotus. I almost pulled the trigger on a Lotus Elise, but the dealer was being very difficult about working with me on the price, so I decided to look for another dealer. Then in the meantime I found a great deal on a new Z4M and jumped on it. Glad I did. I love this car, and I love the S54 engine. The only engine I might rather have is the lighter and more powerful N/A v8 in the current gen M3... but I don't want a car as big as the M3.

[biped]

there is a subjective side to assessing the handling merits of a car as well, and it comes in the form of the confidence it gives the driver. Its not all just about the timeslip.

and being subjective, the criteria to ascertain what gives the driver confidence, is pretty much up to the driver him/herself.

[Bleech]

I have to admit I'd like either of those cars
Coming originally from England though, there are loads of Elises and Exiges, so personally I'd go for the BM, but it's obviously very different here in North America.

[wrh3]

I daily drove an Elise for 2 years prior to trading it in on the Z4M. Like the OP, I think these are the last of the real Lotus cars before the "new" direction Lotus cars come out, I drove an Exige S a few weeks ago and think I will buy one of these in a year or two.

If you like to DRIVE, the Lotus spoils all other cars out there for you from a feedback and involvement perspective. I always found it funny when people said the Z4M was too hard core for a daily driver I enjoyed daily driving the Elise but there were those who though I was nuts.

[krnnerdboy]

I was cross shopping the e92m vs the exige when I came across my e85m. review was spot on and nothing will challenge the driving dynamic of the exige in this price range, but the dealer wasn't too friendly and I know they were having some engine, gas tank issues, and coming from a 997 with a blown motor at 3500 miles, reliability was at the top of my list. The e92m was way too heavy and touring like especially after driving the exige. Luckily I spotted a z4 in Interlagos Blue and asked if that was a custom painted z4...I had no clue they came in M In hind sight I wouldn't mind the exige or it might have even been the better option for me since I barely get to drive mine...

[ZStig]

I actually had an 1999 Viper GTS between my z4 3.0 and the z4m and that car is very raw too, but the ergonomics suck balls, shifter is terrible and its easy to miss shifts(even with extensive mods), brakes lock up too easily (no abs, and big rear brakes don't help much), a/c is really weak, and its too wide to toss around on the streets. Steering is surprisingly quick, very nice in fact, and I didn't find any understeer on the streets. I'd put it in the same category as the elise and the z4 though

[esqu1re]

Exige S definitely looks much more exotic. Like some crazy looking bug with all those vents and that wing. Looks menacing in black. drool

[ZStig]

+ that supercharger whine..... mmmmm

[The HACK]

When I drove the Exige S at Auto Club Speedway 2 years ago, it was about as close to pure driving bliss as driving a "production" street car can get, and on that same day I drove some very expensive hardware costing 2-3 times the Exige S.

The ONLY problem that I saw, was that the car had absolutely no rear visibility, and the fact that the two Exige S they had there for us to drive, only one was working and it was working BARELY. A fire in the engine bay had damaged some wire and causing a short intermittently on the other car that wasn't functioning. And the car that WAS functioning had a bunch of weird start-up issues so they can't shut it down in fear that it would not fire back up again.

But the second you drive it you forget all the trouble. I think, if I were to ever own a car like this, it would get trailered from point A to to point B, and one of the point PREFERABLY is a track or an autocross course. And I had better get trained on how to fix one when it inevitably have mechanical problems.

[chanzs]

Thanks all for taking the time to read and posting your comments. It was indeed a tough decision for me to switch back to Lotus and as of now, I'm still thinking of various excuses to keep the MC as I'm sure this will be a classic in a few years time.

There's a writeup on the Z4MC along with the E30 M3, Z3MC and the 1M in this month's Car (UK mag). Good read and nice pics, definitely worth picking up.

I will check back in here with a full review on the Exige S in another month's time.

Cheers

[wrh3]

Having owned and DDed a 2005 Elise (first year US) for ~2 years, then a 2007 M Coupe for ~4 years, and then back to a 2011 Elise recently I thought I would post again.

The 2005 Elise had some shortcomings, but all of those disappeared when driving- this car was and still remains the purest car I have ever driven in terms of feedback and driver involvement.

I decided to change up to a 2007 Z4M when the incentives came out in late 2007. This car trumped the Elise in a few areas, AC and comfort being two. The AC in the Elise was marginal at best and I could have condensation forming on the interior glass with the Z4M AC. It offered more comfort for the all day mountain drives we like to do and was pure and light when compared to current BMWs. But it was 1.5 times as heavy as the Elise and felt a little numb at first compared to the Elise, but as I learned the car and memories of how good the Elise was faded that became less of an issue for me. The 4 years I had this car were enjoyable and I still think this is one of the best BMWs ever made. My wife did not mind entering/exiting the Z4M as much as she did the Elise so that was another point in the Z4Ms favor.

Then a month or so again I found out the US Elise/Exige were becoming extinct in their current lightweight form and would not show up in the US until a few years from now weighing more and offering more amenities as "the Dany" attempts to have Lotus compete with Porsche, etc. I test drove the last Elise LOA would have for a while and decided it was time to go back. The 2011 is much improved over the 2005 I had: the interior is a little nicer, the AC works better, the shifter is better, and overall the car seems to be more cohesive. I agree with the Hack about the rear window, one of the few reasons I thought about buying a pre-owned Exige S but ended up in the Elise. The aftermarket SC systems are more powerful than the factory delivered systems and the IC mounts under the rear clam so the rear window is not blocked as in the Exige- but be warned, the transmission starts to require mods around the 300HP mark......but I'm not sure who would need more than this in a sub 2k lb car anyway. I do miss the torque of the Z4M so an SC could alleviate some of this lacking torque.

After a drive in the mountains yesterday over an 8-hour period that included some N. GA twisties, Cherohala Skyway, and Tail of the Dragon I remembered why I LOVE this car. It is almost telepathic the way it integrates the driver and communicates the road. At this point I have no desire to change anything suspension related and may even leave it NA for a while. Hard to put into words how good this car is out of the box. The newer factory car actually felt better to me than my 2005 which was equipped with Ohlins, very neutral and easy to control with less understeer when pushed. The Z4M did not feel heavy until pushed and then the laws of physics cannot be overcome where weight is concerned. Entry and exit was not an issue after a few times getting reacquainted with the Yoga required, but once in it is like slipping on a driving glove or shoe.

That said, if I felt I could have put miles on both the Z4M and Lotus and had enough garage space I would have loved to have had both. The Z4M is one of the last great cars BMW has made and I'm not sure they will ever make anything like the Z4M again.

[inTgr8r]

Nice write up Bill.
I never want to drive one.

[johanness]

Great review, thanks

[chanzs]

Nice review! I agree with Bill on all the points made, the Z4M is awesome but the Lotus has really ruined it for us in terms of feedback and involvement. One of the best drives ever but hard to live with. Try one at your own risk!

[chanzs]

After a 4 mth wait, I finally picked up my Exige S yesterday. It was raining so did not get to drive it as much as I wanted but here are some initial thoughts:

Build quality and finishing
The 2011 Exige S has come a long way from my old 2002 Elise in terms of build quality and finishing. Feels more like a proper car now although still nowhere close to BMW standards, probably even below that of 2nd tier Jap manufactuers such as Mazda. Paint quality is average at best and I immediately identified little problems that needed fixing such as play in the seat and a rattling rear grill. Lotus goal of becoming UK's Porsche is still a distant dream from what I see. Overall finishing is acceptable but below par in its price bracket. I am still happy with the improvements from the older models given I had zero expectations in this area. Z4M guys thinking of switching need to be mentally prepared for this, the BMW is several levels ahead.

Air-conditioning
Given this is a Lotus, this segment require special mention. The aircon coped well for a 1.5 hr drive in the city. Will need to drive it more before I can come to any conclusions.

Powertrain
I did not push the car too hard during breakin period but I am mildly dissappointed in this area. The S54 has set the bar so high that anything short of a well tuned V8 will feel anemic and uninspiring. Torque below 4k is weak but the Toyota power plant does get maniac at high revs and I do enjoy the supercharger whine. The car is quick but you don't feel the shove in the back like you do in the Z4M. This motor needs revs to be quick which is why it fell a little short of my expectations as I thought the supercharger will significantly improve torque down low. The engine sound is harsh but then again its unfair to compare a four cylinder against the top straight six in the world.

Shifting mechanics of the transmission is good, better than the Z4M but not at Honda S2000 levels. Gearing feels a lot longer than it needs to be, a shorter final drive might do wonders to match it up with the revvy nature of the motor.

Handling
Despite all the little shortcomings, everything goes away once you get into the twisties. Difficult to put into words but coming from the Z4M, I feel alive again. Tons of feeback in the steering, mild hints of over/understeer are immediately felt. If you ever needed a reason to get a totally impractical and overpriced car like this, THIS IS IT. The stock suspension is very good out of the box and more than sufficent for fast road driving. My older Elise had an aftermarket suspension which made the car even more responsive abeit a little too harsh for the road. The Exige does feel heavier than the Elise but still significantly lighter than the Z4M. Think of the difference as comparing the Z4M to say a 5-series.

Overall I am a very happy man. I echo Bill's comments that neither the Z4M or the Lotus is better than the other. They are different animals and really comes down to personal preferences. Will update again soon.