ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Today's Posts


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-28-2010, 07:34 AM   #23
Blind32
Certified Adrenaline Junkie
Blind32's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
1,325
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dallas TX

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F360C View Post
I have no need for my kit any more so if you want it you are more then welcome to have it for free... you just gotta pay for shipping which shouldn't be much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Hey, I meant to thank you for the offer! I'd already ordered the kit though. If you still have it maybe JBH would be interested. Looks like he probably needs that washer kit
Not to be a vulture but if JBH doesn't want the Washer kit, I'll bite!
Let me know.
Appreciate 0
      06-28-2010, 08:33 AM   #24
03BeastCharmer
Lieutenant Colonel
03BeastCharmer's Avatar
295
Rep
1,666
Posts

Drives: '13 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houston

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbh View Post
So how much camber do you run with the washers? Any negative effect on daily street driving?

Yes the 245 square setup may be a little overboard but after today I will take loose over tight. I assume your running 245/275 setup?

Thanks.
I'm running 245/275. With a washer I got to about -1.7. I may be forced to get camber plates because for the street I wouldn't want to go much more, but for autox I'd like even more.

Turn is is a lot quicker with the washers, and my outside tire wear has been reduced but not elimiated. I don't know what the long term wear is for daily street driving, as mine is a weekend car.
__________________

Current: '13 E92 M3 Euro Delivery
Gone: E86 M Coupe; E30 M3, E39 M5, E36 M3
Appreciate 0
      06-28-2010, 12:08 PM   #25
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
712
Rep
7,850
Posts

Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03BeastCharmer View Post
I'm running 245/275. With a washer I got to about -1.7. I may be forced to get camber plates because for the street I wouldn't want to go much more, but for autox I'd like even more.

Turn is is a lot quicker with the washers, and my outside tire wear has been reduced but not elimiated. I don't know what the long term wear is for daily street driving, as mine is a weekend car.
That ties to what we saw. The "before" camber on the front after they just put in the washers (with old alignment with pins pulled, which was -1.0) put the camber at -1.9 left and -1.7 right. (Had that moved to -1.5 as we're incrementally modding the camber--and it's for street driving.)

I agree, on the street I don't think we'd want much more than -1.7 either, and the plates seem to be the thing to do for more/adjustability. But doesn't using plates bump you up a class for AutoX? I wonder if you could squeeze in another washer?

I need to get under the car and see if the bolt/nut have enough length/thread to allow that safely--I think that's where you're going given you have the kit and are circling for F360C's kit I wonder if going "to far" with the additional washer option might adversely affect the suspension geometry given "where" the camber is being applied versus a camber plate? I seem to recall someone raising that issue or saying it was an issue--but I can't find the post/thread.
Appreciate 0
      06-28-2010, 01:42 PM   #26
Blind32
Certified Adrenaline Junkie
Blind32's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
1,325
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dallas TX

iTrader: (2)

I don't think putting too many washers will affect it since you have plent of adjustment in the postivie direction, the washers just shift the range of adjustment. Am I right in this thinking?

For example, sliding the top of the strut full positive might give you +1.0 camber, then sliding it the other direction -1.0 camber.
Add the washers
now sliding it full positive would only let you go to 0.0 camber but you could get -2.0 in the other direction.
Appreciate 0
      06-30-2010, 11:01 AM   #27
runnerx
Second Lieutenant
runnerx's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
266
Posts

Drives: 06 M roadster; 06 330i 6spd
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bay Area, California

iTrader: (0)

I have done these to my car:

1. Royal Purple SyncrhoMax (shifts better than factory fluid)
2. Royal Purple Max Gear 75W140 (LSD works effortlessly, more squeals from one of the rear tires when taking corner HARD. I guess it does help deliver power more efficiently as RP claims or maybe it was my mind playing a trick on me.)
3. Pulled alignment pin and had more aggressive alignment done
4. Flushed brake fluid to ATE racing fluid
5. went Dunlop star spec Z1 245/275 on stock rims
6. CDV deleted
7. Installed OEM strut brace.
8. Ferodo DS2500 front and Axxis ULT in the rear

Now I love how the car drives and feels.
__________________
2009 BMW X5 4.8i
2006 BMW ///M Roadster 6spd manual

2006 BMW 330i 6spd manual - gone
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--bIgrh8ES_s/TxSUCvOmDUI/AAAAAAAAPh0/OOjwrRZtta0/s912/z4mcomparo.jpg

Last edited by runnerx; 07-13-2010 at 10:00 AM..
Appreciate 0
      06-30-2010, 12:12 PM   #28
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
712
Rep
7,850
Posts

Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by runnerx View Post
I have done these to my car:

3. Pulled alignment pin and had more aggressive alignment done

Now I love how the car drives and feels.
How much camber did that get you?
Appreciate 0
      07-01-2010, 10:05 AM   #29
runnerx
Second Lieutenant
runnerx's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
266
Posts

Drives: 06 M roadster; 06 330i 6spd
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bay Area, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
How much camber did that get you?
I think I got almost 1.8 with the pin pulled.
__________________
2009 BMW X5 4.8i
2006 BMW ///M Roadster 6spd manual

2006 BMW 330i 6spd manual - gone
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--bIgrh8ES_s/TxSUCvOmDUI/AAAAAAAAPh0/OOjwrRZtta0/s912/z4mcomparo.jpg
Appreciate 0
      07-01-2010, 05:30 PM   #30
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
712
Rep
7,850
Posts

Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
How much camber did that get you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by runnerx View Post
I think I got almost 1.8 with the pin pulled.
Thanks, that's where things were with the washer kit and pins pulled on ours. -1.5 seems pretty good for improved turn-in and balance on the street--might take that up to -1.8 next time around.
Appreciate 0
      07-01-2010, 08:04 PM   #31
F360C
Major
United_States
371
Rep
1,379
Posts

Drives: E86 S54
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hoboken, NJ

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind32 View Post
Not to be a vulture but if JBH doesn't want the Washer kit, I'll bite!
Let me know.
Who ever wants it can have it... you just gotta pay for shipping. I actually might have two kits cause I bet if I ask my brother he doesn't want his either
__________________

07 Z4 M Coupe AW/IR
Appreciate 0
      07-01-2010, 09:09 PM   #32
Blind32
Certified Adrenaline Junkie
Blind32's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
1,325
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4MC
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dallas TX

iTrader: (2)

PM Sent
Appreciate 0
      07-01-2010, 10:00 PM   #33
jbh
Private First Class
jbh's Avatar
18
Rep
156
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fort Worth

iTrader: (2)

Oh, too late.

No problem I was going to wait awile anyways before I did the mod.
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2010, 07:50 PM   #34
jbh
Private First Class
jbh's Avatar
18
Rep
156
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fort Worth

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I just go back from an AutoX on the same surface as I ran before. This time I was not on the stock tires but on my Star Specs size 245/45 R18 on all four. So I elimated the stagger between front and rear and also have stickier tires.

The car had much better braking capabilityies today, but not as much as I would like. The car had a much better feel, less understeer but it was still present. The course was a short course, about 35 seconds and it was mostly tight, this is where the understeer was present. On one fast part which was a gentle left curve I could get pretty close to the top of 2nd gear the understeer was not as bad, failry decent. I really thought I would get more oversteer by reducing stagger by 30MM. Its possible that on a faster course this may be the case with this setup.

Next week if conditions permit I will run with the BMW club on a much larger pad so speeds should be a little higher.

I know I need some front negative camber, even just the stock setup with pins removed would help but I don't know how much I have right now. I may get it aligned before next week beore the event.

I think I am real close to how fast I was in my 350Z roadster based on times of people I run with so hopefully I can improve it a little to get faster since this is only the second time in this car. One fustrating thing today is I got the 1st to 2nd gear grind in 2 of my runs, first time its ever happened to me so far.
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2010, 10:36 PM   #35
Juice84
Second Lieutenant
Juice84's Avatar
9
Rep
238
Posts

Drives: '03 2.5i Z4
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

What tire pressures are you running?
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2010, 06:41 AM   #36
jbh
Private First Class
jbh's Avatar
18
Rep
156
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fort Worth

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice84 View Post
What tire pressures are you running?
Started with 33 psi cold on all 4. Adjusted down front after runs to 33 and generally they were 34-35 at end of runs, rear were 35-36 at end of runs.

What is everyone else running for psi on star specs in autoX?
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2010, 08:44 AM   #37
Juice84
Second Lieutenant
Juice84's Avatar
9
Rep
238
Posts

Drives: '03 2.5i Z4
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbh View Post
Started with 33 psi cold on all 4. Adjusted down front after runs to 33 and generally they were 34-35 at end of runs, rear were 35-36 at end of runs.

What is everyone else running for psi on star specs in autoX?
Im on RE-11s and after chalking I settled the fronts around 30ish with the rears around 33ish. Going to dial it in some more at my next event. Im running a 225 square setup and this gave me just a bit of oversteer with my current alignment
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2010, 04:10 PM   #38
runnerx
Second Lieutenant
runnerx's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
266
Posts

Drives: 06 M roadster; 06 330i 6spd
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bay Area, California

iTrader: (0)

I have 245/275 Dunlop Star spec as well. from my experience, they seem to like 39/38 (f/r hot). 33 will wear out the side wall super fast.

Having a little higher PSI than stock in the front will help minimize understeering and protect tire side wall. What I usually do is: first find the psi that will prevent eating into the front size wall, then adjust the rear to go with the front PSI. Too grippy in the back does not help the car rotate, rather it introduces more understeering. I found 39psi is the best for front side wall protection and rear 38psi best to rotate the car with the front.
__________________
2009 BMW X5 4.8i
2006 BMW ///M Roadster 6spd manual

2006 BMW 330i 6spd manual - gone
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--bIgrh8ES_s/TxSUCvOmDUI/AAAAAAAAPh0/OOjwrRZtta0/s912/z4mcomparo.jpg

Last edited by runnerx; 07-12-2010 at 05:01 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2010, 04:28 PM   #39
Juice84
Second Lieutenant
Juice84's Avatar
9
Rep
238
Posts

Drives: '03 2.5i Z4
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Must be differences in tires... at those PSIs and chalking I still had about 1/2ish inch of chalk before I reached the sidewall <- unless my gauge is off.
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2010, 06:28 PM   #40
jbh
Private First Class
jbh's Avatar
18
Rep
156
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fort Worth

iTrader: (2)

Good info,
Runnerx, I noticed you have negative 1.8 camber. I am still stock so that is going to be my next step to get the most from the factory adjustability.
Appreciate 0
      07-12-2010, 06:30 PM   #41
jbh
Private First Class
jbh's Avatar
18
Rep
156
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fort Worth

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice84 View Post
Must be differences in tires... at those PSIs and chalking I still had about 1/2ish inch of chalk before I reached the sidewall <- unless my gauge is off.
My tire edges are worn down to the carrots already from my previous car. When I did lower the pressure up front I felt that I had more grip. I need to chalk it next time.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2010, 09:28 PM   #42
jbh
Private First Class
jbh's Avatar
18
Rep
156
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fort Worth

iTrader: (2)

OK, I ran again Autox again today. This time with the BMW group on a much larger asphalt surface. Speeds were higher hitting 3rd gear on the backsside and top of 2nd gear several times. At the faster speeds my balance was much better with the square setup. Much easier to excert throttle oversteer. Overall a little understeer but not to bad, easily corrected with the right foot.

One thing I had a major problem with was shifting. First run out started off in first gear, tried to go to second in the turn and was denied. Had to for 3rd. Over and over I had problems shifting. Mainly when in 3rd I could not get back to second in hard braking or turning or about anything during the run. I was able to do it but not anywhere near when I wanted to. After the run I could do it no problem at all.

I talked to everyone with E36 and E46 M3's, I was the only Z4M. All of them had upgraded their transmission mount bushings to the harder ones, most had had this same problem with their car. I guess than is in my future, I know there is a thread on this board about it. I did get the 1-2 grind at last weeks autoX.

Overall the car was an absolute blast to drive today, felt much better. But very fustrating towards the end trying to get from 3rd to 2nd. Cost me easily 1.5 seconds or more.
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2017, 06:13 PM   #43
JJZ4MR
Private First Class
JJZ4MR's Avatar
33
Rep
194
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Roadster
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Largo Fl

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Hey All, I've enjoyed reading this thread, having all the same thoughts on this as you all did seven years ago. Fairly new to my Z4M and just completed my 2nd AX. I'm looking at my next mods which will probably be suspension. Are any of you still owning these cars ? Hi Finnegan and Kitty, I know you're still out there.
__________________
Topless and getting my degree
Appreciate 0
      04-14-2017, 11:00 AM   #44
jns_e85
Second Lieutenant
jns_e85's Avatar
75
Rep
264
Posts

Drives: '05 X3 2.5i, '06 z4M, '17 M2
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago Area

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJZ4MR View Post
Hey All, I've enjoyed reading this thread, having all the same thoughts on this as you all did seven years ago. Fairly new to my Z4M and just completed my 2nd AX. I'm looking at my next mods which will probably be suspension. Are any of you still owning these cars ? Hi Finnegan and Kitty, I know you're still out there.
I autox my Z4mr and so does a local buddy. Both of us are competitive (him more than me since he has had his M longer and is more experienced with it) with local BMW and Miata clubs, and are both on stock suspension. Honestly, suspension should be the last thing your considering doing atm. Best mods right now would be more seat time, better tires, more seat time, better alignment with more camber, and even more seat time.

This car is a bit of a handful and you will get better the more events you do. Quick comparison, I had the opportunity to drive an M2 at M school last year in autocross exercises, and while its an amazing car and handles very well in stock form, the Z4M is more of a challenge in the same setting.

The only things I have actively changed for autocross was a 17" square set up since I'm cheap and desire to rotate tires since I do about 14 autox events a year (Kosei K1 with 255/40/17 200tw tires and spacers if your wondering) and added the turner camber shim kit for more front camber, which also was a pretty cheap mod. Also, did I mention more seat time?

Start with better tires and a better alignment then go do more events! Remember, seat time is the best mod you can buy
__________________


2017 M2 - Camber Hubs, MPE, and some other goodies
2006 Z4M - Epic Tune / Eventuri CAI / Euro Headers / Stromung / FA 500 / AS SSK / Arc 8s
2004 Z4 3.0i - Gone, but not forgotten!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:37 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST