ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Roadster and Coupe > General BMW Z4 Forum
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-09-2020, 09:41 PM   #1
GearMed
Registered
2
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: BMW Z4
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Somerset NJ

iTrader: (0)

Top Motor Replaced - Doesn't work

I replaced my convertible top motor today. I ordered JUST the motor (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...5-cd78f07a84d8). Installed it and did trunk conversion. The top will unlatch, and I hear/see the motor making sounds and shaking as if it's working - but the top doesn't come down.

Any ideas guys?
Appreciate 0
      03-09-2020, 09:55 PM   #2
3002 tii
Lieutenant General
3002 tii's Avatar
2272
Rep
12,559
Posts

Drives: Z4 M, X5, GX460
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (99)

Garage List
You forget to turn the knobs?
__________________
Follow for latest mods
Appreciate 0
      03-10-2020, 08:34 PM   #3
JAS1169
Private First Class
48
Rep
152
Posts

Drives: BMW 2003 Z4
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA

iTrader: (0)

Hey

In the event that you opened the hydo system when changing out the motor, try this. Engage the red Emergency handle & manually bring the top up & down a few times. Since the pump is self-bleeding, this should, if there are any air pockets remove them. reset the red handle & try the down switch again

If the above does nothing. Since you've moved the pump to the trunk, take a flashlight and place it behind the top plastic on the pump & sort of shake the pump. Can you see any hydo fluid inside? If yes, while in trunk near the pump with the flashlight have someone push top down & after the motor starts with the flashlight behind can you see a decrease/increase in the fluid??? (1)
(1) Yea, I know, that plastic top gets really yellow with age & it's tuff to see thru.

If you can see a lot of fluid in the plastic top and it's not moving at all when the motor is running then you may have made an error when you changed out the old motor. However, if you took off the hydo lines when swapping out motors you may have somehow crossed the connections at the pump. This sort of cross connection could result in the motor running but no movement.

When you start checking the fluid level in the above steps and if you can't see any fluid in the system, top it off with hydo fluid using the screw in the middle of the plastic top. This will tell you if you've either cured your issue or if there a leak within the hydo system.

I've never swapped out the motor on the pump sooo, I honestly can't help with that.
Appreciate 2
wdb4673.00
jwolf58.50
      06-02-2020, 06:14 AM   #4
BobR07Z
New Member
19
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Pt. St. Lucie, FL

iTrader: (0)

Motor only replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearMed View Post
I replaced my convertible top motor today. I ordered JUST the motor (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...5-cd78f07a84d8). Installed it and did trunk conversion. The top will unlatch, and I hear/see the motor making sounds and shaking as if it's working - but the top doesn't come down.

Any ideas guys?
I just purchased an '07-Z and the pump motor quit working. I already checked all connections, switch in trunk, power at plugins. The top-lock pump works fine. I would prefere to change out the motor only, (cost), and wondered how your episode worked out after reading your post, or any other input to guide me on this procedure.
Thanks
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2020, 09:27 AM   #5
JAS1169
Private First Class
48
Rep
152
Posts

Drives: BMW 2003 Z4
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobR07Z View Post
I just purchased an '07-Z and the pump motor quit working. I already checked all connections, switch in trunk, power at plugins. The top-lock pump works fine. I would prefere to change out the motor only, (cost), and wondered how your episode worked out after reading your post, or any other input to guide me on this procedure.
Thanks


You can do the change out by either pulling the roof or going thru the trunk.

There's also another guy who posted on youtube that he reach the motor by folding up the back of the convertible top. It might actually work, but I've never did it that way.

There is a very good D/I/Y on youtube on pulling the roof.

However, here is a D/I/Y on going thru the trunk from a UK Z4 Forum on pulling the motor. There are a lot of pic's and step by step instructions.

https://zroadster.org/threads/z4-roo...to-boot.19256/


I've never done a motor change on the pump so I can't help you with that.

Lot's of luck
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2020, 10:07 PM   #6
belcom
Lieutenant
belcom's Avatar
Canada
168
Rep
421
Posts

Drives: '18 540i, '06 Z4si, '07 Z4MC
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (1)

Interesting... I got the Z in January and it was sitting in the garage until now. Over the last few months I put the top down and up a bunch of times just for fun. The battery was disconnected most of the winter cold months because it needed the blow by heater recall done so I suppose there was a risk of fire.

Occasionally I would reconnect the battery and start up the engine. So recently I've been working on the engine doing some maintenance and when I was done with it and went for a drive the top would unlatch but would not open.

Thing is though, the previous owner specifically told me that he replaced the top motor so it was new. He showed me pictures of the old rusted out unit. As I was getting pretty upset that now I have to replace the motor again I played around with the red handle in the trunk a bit and then sat down in the car and pressed the open top button and held it, I could hear a faint click of a relay somewhere and an extremely faint sound of a liquid rushing somewhere behind the driver's seat (I do know the motor is right there). Thought ok, what happens if I hold it for a while... so I did and started hearing the fluid rushing sound more and more like there was air in the hydraulics also and then boom the roof started to open, motor activated and since then I have done it a bunch more times and its still working today.

I thought that maybe when he replaced it he did not bleed the system properly and left air in the system and was already thinking of pulling the roof and motor out to bleed the hydraulics however just came across this post where you (JAS1169) mention that its self bleeding so glad I didn't start the process!

Here's one little quirk I had noticed though, before when the roof closed it was more or less gentle on the approach to the windshield but now it kind of slams a bit before latching on. Not a huge deal I suppose but any tips for that?

Don't mean to hijack the thread but since we are on the topic....
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2020, 07:09 AM   #7
BobR07Z
New Member
19
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Pt. St. Lucie, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS1169 View Post
You can do the change out by either pulling the roof or going thru the trunk.

There's also another guy who posted on youtube that he reach the motor by folding up the back of the convertible top. It might actually work, but I've never did it that way.

There is a very good D/I/Y on youtube on pulling the roof.

However, here is a D/I/Y on going thru the trunk from a UK Z4 Forum on pulling the motor. There are a lot of pic's and step by step instructions.

https://zroadster.org/threads/z4-roo...to-boot.19256/


I've never done a motor change on the pump so I can't help you with that.

Lot's of luck
Thanks for the input, I have seen a bunch of video and material on the motor assembly replaced but not much on just the motor. I can't figure out why when the cost is so much less. I'm just wondering if there is a reason for replacing the complete unit except for losing some fluid and having to deal with that. I'll keep searching and in the meantime just use arm power. I will come back when and if I do just the motor and report how it went.
Thanks for all and any responses.
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2020, 10:33 AM   #8
BobR07Z
New Member
19
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Pt. St. Lucie, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobR07Z View Post
Thanks for the input, I have seen a bunch of video and material on the motor assembly replaced but not much on just the motor. I can't figure out why when the cost is so much less. I'm just wondering if there is a reason for replacing the complete unit except for losing some fluid and having to deal with that. I'll keep searching and in the meantime just use arm power. I will come back when and if I do just the motor and report how it went.
Thanks for all and any responses.
Update:
OK, I just finished removing the top pump/motor assembly thru the trunk, that link that you shared was very, very good and it made me decide to not remove the top. It is not a easy job, but if you follow the instructions, it's all there. (The motor case was half full of water). I tested the motor again at the motor to make sure that was the problem and sure enough. I did separate the motor from the pump and was quite surprised as to why more people aren't replacing just the motor. You have to separate very carefully and not loose any of the pins or spring, and have something to catch the fluid, but that's it! Watch how it comes apart and it really isn't a big deal.
I ordered the motor $117, and fluid $16, from ebay. Note that you want to get the exact motor replacement. I found a seller that advertises the motor built in Germany, not China, so I will wait a week now and proceed to put it all back together when I get it.
Thanks again for your posting and the link you shared.
update to come*
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2020, 10:54 AM   #9
Clearancediver
First Lieutenant
80
Rep
390
Posts

Drives: 2004 Z4
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

iTrader: (0)

Belcom..... my top also comes down a little hard as well. I believe if you replace the tension straps (right word?) that will solve the problem.

Or simply reach up and "gentle it's approach"... as I do. That costs nothing and prevents a hard "landing" of the top to the windshield framing.
__________________
Sent from my smart phone...
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2020, 01:30 PM   #10
BobR07Z
New Member
19
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Pt. St. Lucie, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobR07Z View Post
Update:
OK, I just finished removing the top pump/motor assembly thru the trunk, that link that you shared was very, very good and it made me decide to not remove the top. It is not a easy job, but if you follow the instructions, it's all there. (The motor case was half full of water). I tested the motor again at the motor to make sure that was the problem and sure enough. I did separate the motor from the pump and was quite surprised as to why more people aren't replacing just the motor. You have to separate very carefully and not loose any of the pins or spring, and have something to catch the fluid, but that's it! Watch how it comes apart and it really isn't a big deal.
I ordered the motor $117, and fluid $16, from ebay. Note that you want to get the exact motor replacement. I found a seller that advertises the motor built in Germany, not China, so I will wait a week now and proceed to put it all back together when I get it.
Thanks again for your posting and the link you shared.
update to come*
Update:
Just installed the motor only and thought I would share some pictures on this. I'm still waiting on the fluid to arrive so the top isn't functionable yet but I did test the motor hooked up and it seems to be right. I have say that the motor drive assembly is quite simple and bulletproof against putting it together wrong, it only can go together one way. I'll update the roof operation after the fluid arrives Monday.
Note: the pin and spring connects the motor to the pump and drives the pump, make sure the spring doesn't push past the collar on the pin or it will collapse and not drive the pump. While holding the pin in hand, push the spring upward against the pin collar and if it passes over there collar you have to bend the spring END slightly so that it fits tight and doesn't pass over there collar.
Attached Images
         

Last edited by BobR07Z; 06-18-2020 at 05:00 PM..
Appreciate 3
belcom167.50
Veeli0.00
      06-18-2020, 04:45 PM   #11
BobR07Z
New Member
19
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Pt. St. Lucie, FL

iTrader: (0)

Okay, after completing the motor install and everything working great, I decided to work on the motor that I pulled out to see what the problem was and how difficult it was to dismantle the motor.. The pictures below show the motor taken apart. The end of the motor that the electrical is connected comes apart and you have access to everything. I made the mistake of trying to spread the cylinder away from the holding plate, I think if you just pry the plate up and away from the base you won't destroy it as I did, I used a chisel to open the tabs and don't think that was necessary. Instead just pry upward and separate the plate away from the motor. It had a broken solder connection at one point and after soldering it, put it back together and the motor worked. I then tried to solder the end plate to the cylinder and ended up hurting the electronics so I discarded this motor. This is all so that you can make a decision or see how the motor is put together. There is hope to rebuild or fix your own.
Attached Images
         
Appreciate 1
belcom167.50
      06-19-2020, 12:21 AM   #12
Clearancediver
First Lieutenant
80
Rep
390
Posts

Drives: 2004 Z4
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

iTrader: (0)

Nice pics and follow up post.

I too subscribe to the theory about fixing things .... it isn't broken until I break it.
__________________
Sent from my smart phone...
Appreciate 2
kaybat125.50
BobR07Z18.50
      06-23-2020, 09:33 PM   #13
FrenchieTacoZ4
New Member
17
Rep
21
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0i 6spd manual
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4  [0.00]
2004 BMW Z4  [0.00]
BobR07Z, thanx for posting the pictures, without them i wouldn't have been able to fix my top. I replaced the motor yesterday and it didn't work. In the 3rd pic the 3 pins fell out, one was jammed under the bearing and would not spin. I searched all over the net and could not find a diagram of the pump/motor assembly. The pics you posted allowed me to figure out what went wrong. Thank you!!
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2020, 07:50 PM   #14
BobR07Z
New Member
19
Rep
23
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Pt. St. Lucie, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchieTacoZ4 View Post
BobR07Z, thanx for posting the pictures, without them i wouldn't have been able to fix my top. I replaced the motor yesterday and it didn't work. In the 3rd pic the 3 pins fell out, one was jammed under the bearing and would not spin. I searched all over the net and could not find a diagram of the pump/motor assembly. The pics you posted allowed me to figure out what went wrong. Thank you!!
That's great! Glad the pics helped someone. The whole motor thing is quite simple as long as it goes back together the right way. I got my motor on ebay for $115 with a 10 yr warr., German made, so saved a ton by doing it myself but it was a learning experience. If only I was 4' tall I could get in the trunk and do the job a lot easier! LOL
I did do the pump relocation though.
Enjoy!!
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2021, 09:07 AM   #15
mothy5000
Enlisted Member
mothy5000's Avatar
8
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: '08 BMW Z4 3.0si E85
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (0)

BobR07Z , my motor looked a little worse than yours when I pulled it out of the roof drain cavity. I did a little research on cleaning electric motors. I pulled it apart and sanded the copper contacts, put it back together and it works.

You pretty much did everything I did, when I relocated the motor to the trunk I got pressure in the lines by moving the top manually a few times, but no movement with the motor. (I can hear it spinning.) At one point I manually closed the top halfway and could not move it up or down by hand the pressure was so great. I had to pull the red manual switch to release the pressure.

Do you have any idea why the motor works, the lines get good pressure, but there is no movement?
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2021, 06:13 PM   #16
JAS1169
Private First Class
48
Rep
152
Posts

Drives: BMW 2003 Z4
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mothy5000 View Post
BobR07Z , my motor looked a little worse than yours when I pulled it out of the roof drain cavity. I did a little research on cleaning electric motors. I pulled it apart and sanded the copper contacts, put it back together and it works.

You pretty much did everything I did, when I relocated the motor to the trunk I got pressure in the lines by moving the top manually a few times, but no movement with the motor. (I can hear it spinning.) At one point I manually closed the top halfway and could not move it up or down by hand the pressure was so great. I had to pull the red manual switch to release the pressure.

Do you have any idea why the motor works, the lines get good pressure, but there is no movement?
Please go to about 4:10 in the attached video.




In the attached video you can clearly here the motor running but, no movement. ( yes, the red handle by pass has also failed in the video).
In the video the motor is running but the top isn't moving because of some kind of pump failure. You can hear your motor running but no top movement. Yea, your pump may have unseen water damage, simply failure due to age or because you made an error of some sort putting the pump/motor back together.

Yea, I know it's very costly, but a new pump/motor combo should get your top moving again.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2021, 01:20 AM   #17
3002 tii
Lieutenant General
3002 tii's Avatar
2272
Rep
12,559
Posts

Drives: Z4 M, X5, GX460
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (99)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS1169 View Post
Please go to about 4:10 in the attached video.




In the attached video you can clearly here the motor running but, no movement. ( yes, the red handle by pass has also failed in the video).
In the video the motor is running but the top isn't moving because of some kind of pump failure. You can hear your motor running but no top movement. Yea, your pump may have unseen water damage, simply failure due to age or because you made an error of some sort putting the pump/motor back together.

Yea, I know it's very costly, but a new pump/motor combo should get your top moving again.
Great video but 1) the guy narrating was really annoying and 2) seems silly to not have relocate the motor to trunk
__________________
Follow for latest mods
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2021, 06:53 PM   #18
JAS1169
Private First Class
48
Rep
152
Posts

Drives: BMW 2003 Z4
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA

iTrader: (0)

Yea, I selected this video so mothly 5000 could see water damage to the pump/motor may not always simply be limited to the electrical motor. In that, from the pic's in the video the motor was rusting out. Yet, rust & all you could hear it running in the video and it clearly sounded like a normal running top motor....with one problem; the top wasn't moving.

Yes, I agree with you, when I saw him strapping the motor back into the convertible frame I wondered why he wasn't relocating it to the trunk. I also wondered about reusing the crush washers. In that, if a stupid washer went bad on a relocated motor in the trunk it wouldn't be the end of the world. However, if the motor was returned to it's original location and a washer went bad....pulling the top all over again.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2021, 06:13 PM   #19
rsutoratosu
Captain
113
Rep
778
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

That guy looks familiar.. he's hoovies garage ninja mechanic..
__________________
-Roranji
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2022, 09:56 PM   #20
mothy5000
Enlisted Member
mothy5000's Avatar
8
Rep
35
Posts

Drives: '08 BMW Z4 3.0si E85
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS1169 View Post
Please go to about 4:10 in the attached video.




In the attached video you can clearly here the motor running but, no movement. ( yes, the red handle by pass has also failed in the video).
In the video the motor is running but the top isn't moving because of some kind of pump failure. You can hear your motor running but no top movement. Yea, your pump may have unseen water damage, simply failure due to age or because you made an error of some sort putting the pump/motor back together.

Yea, I know it's very costly, but a new pump/motor combo should get your top moving again.
JAS1169 Thanks for the video! After your post I started looking really hard at the pump itself. The entire process was acting like the red release knob was pulled so I followed that to the pump and pulled that mechanism apart to see how it worked.

There is a brass release nipple (for lack of a better word because that's what it looks like) that gets pressed whenever you pull the red knob. I'm pretty sure the spring behind the nipple was corroded forcing the nipple to constantly stay in the "pulled position".

Luckily, I'm the moderator of a Facebook Z4 group and had a member meet me an hour up the road with a mint condition pump/motor combo out of his Z4M. I switched pumps/motors and the top opened immediately on the first try! It doesn't close on its own after about 6-7 tries. It does try and I have to pull on it a little to get it to close on its own. I'm guessing there is still air in the closing lines, perhaps? And that it will take several more tries to work 100%. If anyone has any ideas for that I would really appreciate it.
Attached Images
  
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2022, 07:15 PM   #21
Veeli
Registered
0
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: 2003 Z4 3.0i
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Northern Ireland, UK

iTrader: (0)

Pin and spring

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobR07Z View Post
Update:
Just installed the motor only and thought I would share some pictures on this. I'm still waiting on the fluid to arrive so the top isn't functionable yet but I did test the motor hooked up and it seems to be right. I have say that the motor drive assembly is quite simple and bulletproof against putting it together wrong, it only can go together one way. I'll update the roof operation after the fluid arrives Monday.
Note: the pin and spring connects the motor to the pump and drives the pump, make sure the spring doesn't push past the collar on the pin or it will collapse and not drive the pump. While holding the pin in hand, push the spring upward against the pin collar and if it passes over there collar you have to bend the spring END slightly so that it fits tight and doesn't pass over there collar.
Maybe a silly question, but with the spring compressed, does it push the pin into the metal pump or the plastic motor wheel?
Appreciate 0
      04-10-2022, 03:17 PM   #22
Falbe_C
New Member
0
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW E90
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

I am looking at Buying an 03 E85 the roof on that needs to be fixed, would you mark this as a red flag in your experience?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:54 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST