More California ridiculousness...this time it's over tires.

[kudos]

Originally Posted by RM7

Quick question, have you been to Canada?

I lived there for awhile (Ottawa). The country is ran terribly with horrible social and fiscal policies. The only time a Canadian will argue it isn't is when talking to an American. Canadians talking to Canadians will admit just how absolute garbage their politics are for the average tax paying citizen. Their housing market is worse than the U.S. as is their unemployment rate which is 7%.

[LH44]

Perhaps it's the smug native Californian in me that needs to spell it out since nobody seems to have caught on....this proposal has nothing to do with protecting the environment. Or being more efficient. Or saving the whales. Or anything else we pretend to care about. It's just the easiest way to get shit passed.

This is intended to protect the market from the flood of $15 Linglongs or Geostars.

Is it a shitty way to go about it? Yeah, obviously. Will it accomplish its desired outcome? Probably, along with a ton of unintended consequences. One of the few useful things my Master's in Economics taught me is that once government starts putting guardrails around markets, shit gets wonky. But if you're in a position where you can benefit from those guardrails and have enough leverage, then things can bend your way. Only until it's squashed by someone with more leverage the other way. It's kinda how the government works.

Either way, this is nowhere close to becoming a reality. And even in the most aggressive version being discussed, it really won't impact enthusiasts from getting whatever tire they want. Just ask the next broccoli-head you see in a G80 what flavor vape he has in his hand which were all supposedly banned two years ago.

[Car-Addicted]

Simple rules in life 101
People run better on healthy food, water and air
Cars run better on petrol (for the time being)
Governments run better on Austrian economics
un-elected bureaucrats should just plain run

[Henn28]

Originally Posted by jeff113

As the state with the highest population, the policies of California can influence the other 49 states. An example is CARB influencing the EPA.

Not sure it directly has as much to do with simple population numbers as the fact that California’s economy is the fourth largest in the world, and accounts for almost 14% of the US GDP. Companies and entire industries listen to that sort of economic might.

Not bad for such a scorched wasteland, if its detractors are to be believed.

Everyone hates the dreaded, heavy and unnecessary hand of government regulation, until their kids have lead in their blood, or their grandfather dies of lung cancer because he lived in cancer alley, or bald eagles almost go extinct, or you enjoy hunting/fishing/camping/etc. on well tended and accessible public land, or you are a shrimper slowly going out business because you have spend too much money to go farther and farther off shore to shrimp because of all the crap the Midwest farmers dump in the Mississippi and its tributaries, or your baby is born horribly disfigured because some company marketed a medication without proper testing and usage controls.

Oddly though no one complains about airline and aircraft, or nuclear power generation safety regulations, but rather when there is a horrible mishap they immediately point one of their fingers at the government for presumably shirking some regulatory responsibility.

My point is the truth is almost always in the middle somewhere. My state is aggressively happy to be dead last, or tied with Mississippi in many categories of misery like women’s and children’s health outcomes, air quality, education, etc. California ranks much higher in these, employs a zillion more people, and certainly has a significantly more stringent regulatory environment. But it does also seem to be driving employment and wealth away. There’s probably some middle ground to be found.

But on the other hand, it’s their state.

[No one]

Originally Posted by Henn28

Oddly though no one complains about airline and aircraft ... safety regulations

Absolutely! TSA locks are an absolute indecency, a theft as it is. I can't believe that crap exists. If I ever have to buy a new suitcase disabling those will be the first thing to do.

[Mikey240]

Originally Posted by Henn28

Not sure it directly has as much to do with simple population numbers as the fact that California’s economy is the fourth largest in the world, and accounts for almost 14% of the US GDP. Companies and entire industries listen to that sort of economic might.

Not bad for such a scorched wasteland, if its detractors are to be believed.

Everyone hates the dreaded, heavy and unnecessary hand of government regulation, until their kids have lead in their blood, or their grandfather dies of lung cancer because he lived in cancer alley, or bald eagles almost go extinct, or you enjoy hunting/fishing/camping/etc. on well tended and accessible public land, or you are a shrimper slowly going out business because you have spend too much money to go farther and farther off shore to shrimp because of all the crap the Midwest farmers dump in the Mississippi and its tributaries, or your baby is born horribly disfigured because some company marketed a medication without proper testing and usage controls.

Oddly though no one complains about airline and aircraft, or nuclear power generation safety regulations, but rather when there is a horrible mishap they immediately point one of their fingers at the government for presumably shirking some regulatory responsibility.

My point is the truth is almost always in the middle somewhere. My state is aggressively happy to be dead last, or tied with Mississippi in many categories of misery like women’s and children’s health outcomes, air quality, education, etc. California ranks much higher in these, employs a zillion more people, and certainly has a significantly more stringent regulatory environment. But it does also seem to be driving employment and wealth away. There’s probably some middle ground to be found.

But on the other hand, it’s their state.

Look - there are sensible, cost effective regulations that can and do work but this shit is somewhat out of control now. Forcing electric everything without power generation support and grid upgrades. Massive business costs that get built-in to the price of products. Endless red tape. Fees, permits, carbon taxes, etc. Thats what people hate.

I dont want to get too off topic here but the auto industry has been devastated by a lot of this feel-good crap. Its not based on actual science or data, just some politician looking to score points with whomever.

There is a happy medium but no one seems to want to go there.

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by Henn28

If we all spent less time complaining about the other guys’ state and more time making our own a better place, the whole country would be better for it. We have 50 states for a reason. Find one you like, live in it, and quit wanking about the other guys state.

Henn28 cannot agree more!...repost from a similar nonsensical thread:

"Far too often, folks from 'fly over, drive thru' states luv to bash CA whenever possible...fine, a peragatilve I suppose. And those that follow suit residing in CA that complain, always welcome to leave and head to the 'flatlands' or wherever else that suits ya.

California contributes the most to the federal tax base overall—by a wide margin.
Top contributors (total federal taxes paid)
CY24 these states send the most total dollars to the federal government each year:

1. California – largest economy and population +$275.6B or 1 out of every 6 federal tax dollars
2. New York +$76.5B
3. Texas +$68.1B

California alone contributes hundreds of billions annually in federal income, payroll, and corporate taxes.

Note the vast contribution difference from #1 CA which is same as the bottom ~25–30 states combined.

> Largest Net Funder = California

Bottom States by contribution
Lowest contributors (share of total):

1. Vermont — 0.12%
2. Alaska — 0.14%
3. Wyoming — 0.15%
4. West Virginia — 0.17%
5. North Dakota — 0.19%
6. Montana — 0.21%
7. Hawaii — 0.22%
8. Maine — 0.24%
9. New Mexico — 0.25%
10. South Dakota — 0.25%
11. Mississippi — 0.30%
12. New Hampshire — 0.33%
13. Idaho — 0.35%
14. Rhode Island — 0.37%
15. Delaware — 0.40%
16. Kansas — 0.61%
17. Iowa — 0.70%
18. Alabama — 0.74%
19. Nevada — 0.75%
20. Utah — 0.75%

In most cases, these 'characters'/haters have little to no actual experience living in CA.

Although originally from CA, have lived in many other states with mind-set of 'enjoying & appreciating' each state, what it had to offer, and with a positive outlook toward experiences.
Short list of states resided over time [sometimes multiple cities therein]:

1. NY
2. NJ
3. VA
4. MD
5. GA
6. FL
7. AR
8. MN
9. TX
10. WA

BTW - Another way facts overwhelm BS, narrow-minded CA bashers...
Most dependent states
(receive more than they pay)

1. New Mexico
2. West Virginia
3. Mississippi
4. Alaska
5. Alabama
6. Louisiana
7. Kentucky
8. South Carolina
9. Arizona
10. Maine

For loud folks residing in "bottom states" et all 47 other, more advisable to 'stay quiet'; be very very grateful 'takers'; jus enjoy economic welfare and subsidies provided by CA
...so shhhhh jus tend to crops, chickens whatever else."

[Car-Addicted]

Yah California is a freakin paradise

California ranks dead last — 50th place — in the U-Haul Growth Index released today.

This is the sixth consecutive year California has finished in last place.

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Yah California is a freakin paradise

California ranks dead last — 50th place — in the U-Haul Growth Index released today.

This is the sixth consecutive year California has finished in last place.

No one claims Cali is paradise.
Typical nonsensical, absurd remarks when confronted with actual facts.

Wait what - - U-Haul index?!?
WTF is that about...thas the best 'germane measure' to support feeble positions?

BTW...how did Central PA, best known for horse-and-buggy's, fair in the U-Haul index?

[kudos]

Originally Posted by smokinjoe64

Henn28 cannot agree more!...repost from a similar nonsensical thread:

"Far too often, folks from 'fly over, drive thru' states luv to bash CA whenever possible...fine, a peragatilve I suppose. And those that follow suit residing in CA that complain, always welcome to leave and head to the 'flatlands' or wherever else that suits ya.

California contributes the most to the federal tax base overall—by a wide margin.
Top contributors (total federal taxes paid)
CY24 these states send the most total dollars to the federal government each year:

1. California – largest economy and population +$275.6B or 1 out of every 6 federal tax dollars
2. New York +$76.5B
3. Texas +$68.1B

California alone contributes hundreds of billions annually in federal income, payroll, and corporate taxes.

Note the vast contribution difference from #1 CA which is same as the bottom ~25–30 states combined.

> Largest Net Funder = California

Bottom States by contribution
Lowest contributors (share of total):

1. Vermont — 0.12%
2. Alaska — 0.14%
3. Wyoming — 0.15%
4. West Virginia — 0.17%
5. North Dakota — 0.19%
6. Montana — 0.21%
7. Hawaii — 0.22%
8. Maine — 0.24%
9. New Mexico — 0.25%
10. South Dakota — 0.25%
11. Mississippi — 0.30%
12. New Hampshire — 0.33%
13. Idaho — 0.35%
14. Rhode Island — 0.37%
15. Delaware — 0.40%
16. Kansas — 0.61%
17. Iowa — 0.70%
18. Alabama — 0.74%
19. Nevada — 0.75%
20. Utah — 0.75%

In most cases, these 'characters'/haters have little to no actual experience living in CA.

Although originally from CA, have lived in many other states with mind-set of 'enjoying & appreciating' each state, what it had to offer, and with a positive outlook toward experiences.
Short list of states resided over time [sometimes multiple cities therein]:

1. NY
2. NJ
3. VA
4. MD
5. GA
6. FL
7. AR
8. MN
9. TX
10. WA

BTW - Another way facts overwhelm BS, narrow-minded CA bashers...
Most dependent states
(receive more than they pay)

1. New Mexico
2. West Virginia
3. Mississippi
4. Alaska
5. Alabama
6. Louisiana
7. Kentucky
8. South Carolina
9. Arizona
10. Maine

For loud folks residing in "bottom states" et all 47 other, more advisable to 'stay quiet'; be very very grateful 'takers'; jus enjoy economic welfare and subsidies provided by CA
...so shhhhh jus tend to crops, chickens whatever else."

Contribution numbers mean nothing if you don't also factor in how much they take from the federal government, which knowing California and New York is an absolute ton. These numbers you posted tell nothing.

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by kudos

Contribution numbers mean nothing if you don't also factor in how much they take from the federal government, which knowing California and New York is an absolute ton. These numbers you posted tell nothing.

Simply provide legitimate, actual facts for such spurious, unsubstantiated assertions...
[aka Alternative Facts]

[jaffles]

as for the OP; if California is concerned about emissions from the rolling resistance of tyres. What do you reckon they will do when they realise all the rubber from tyres as they wear, all those tiny miniscule rubber particles end up in the air, land, water ways and shore lines.

Google says Cali uses 51 million tyres a year, and imagine if they were all European spec. You could perhaps double that.

now back to the best State debate

[kudos]

Originally Posted by smokinjoe64

Simply provide legitimate, actual facts for such spurious, unsubstantiated assertions...
[aka Alternative Facts]

Why are you trying to sound smart? I provided no facts because I didn't claim anything other than calling out your smooth brain nonsense. Are you going to argue NY and California don't receive a lot of federal money? Is that the hill you want to die on? Really?

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by smokinjoe64

Simply provide legitimate, actual facts for such spurious, unsubstantiated assertions...
[aka Alternative Facts]

Lol

[Mikey240]

Originally Posted by kudos

Contribution numbers mean nothing if you don't also factor in how much they take from the federal government, which knowing California and New York is an absolute ton. These numbers you posted tell nothing.

I guess I fail to see why what amount of money gets sent to the feds or the size of a state economy has to do with how great a place is to live? How is that a viable metric for this debate?

I am more concerned, or give more credence to:

- Income tax rates
- Business environment & limited red tape and regulations
- Property taxes
- Weather
- Quality of life, places to live and housing for regular folks
- Car friendly policies

Feels like Cali, NY and a few other populous states are losing people due to a lot of the factors above being NOT favorable for many citizens.

Just my 4 cents.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by TheGeekGuy

Missed in this "statistics for dummies" is the corporate greed that fashions the decision to move to Texas, et al. This about money. Pure. Simple. Dressing it, any other way is disingenuous.

You hate corporate greed. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up because I was really getting a big corporate greed lover vibe from you. I'm curious though who's dressing anything any other way? Did I miss where that chart said they were relocating to save the whales or something???

However what interests me more is why corporate greed = bad but government greed = good.

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by kudos

Why are you trying to sound smart? I provided no facts because I didn't claim anything other than calling out your smooth brain nonsense. Are you going to argue NY and California don't receive a lot of federal money? Is that the hill you want to die on? Really?

Wait what? - - "trying to sound smart"; "smooth brain nonsense" => Soooo ill-mannered
Damn facts jus too painful for some to consider, acknowledge, accept

Welp, to make plainer and aid in understanding for 'fact deniers'...as a well known 'philosophizer', Forest Gump, says to woefully lacking, continuing

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by jaffles

What do you reckon they will do when they realise all the rubber from tyres as they wear, all those tiny miniscule rubber particles end up in the air, land, water ways and shore lines.

Google says Cali uses 51 million tyres a year, and imagine if they were all European spec. You could perhaps double that.

now back to the best State debate

Salient point on its face...that said, 'idea-idiots' fail to recognize evident real world use cases, impacts, trade-offs:

• Millions upon millions of crap tires in-use, already used for multiple decades [not pricey 'premium' tires and not jus in CA]
• EV's chew tires more, faster than good ole boys spit tobaccy
• EU math for consumption do not jive with restriction 'argument' regarding US driving mls, and disposal volumes annually
• If there's a case for restriction...dealing with tractor-trailer retread tires 'peeling-off' as they pose a daily highway danger, pollute consistently

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem.
Unlikely corporate, lobby interest will allow this to get O2/'traction'

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

This is what happens when you have people making policy with low IQ.

Folks, please do tell that you don't get your "news" from social media?
And that you don't get wound up around the axle by the same garbage?
Pretty please?

For anyone who doesn't know how to google yet - the above is fake news.
Cali is not "banning your favorite tires".

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Ignoring "Complete nothingburger" is how you get stupid laws like auto-stop-start, Kill switchs and cafe standards.

Since when (or where?) is auto start-stop a law?
And what do you not like about CAFE standards? I pay less for gas today and drive higher performance cars than ever before, partly due to innovation pressures from CAFE (and similar standards in other parts of the world).

Originally Posted by Mikey240

I guess I fail to see why what amount of money gets sent to the feds or the size of a state economy has to do with how great a place is to live?

It's a measure of the state doing something right for business, as there would not be any money to pay in taxes if there was no business activity taking place.

In other worlds, its an effective rebuttal to all those who falsely claim that it is impossible to start or grow business in California, for one reason or another. Clearly, business are prospering and paying taxes, and doing more so than in any other state.

Simple enough?

Originally Posted by Mikey240

I am more concerned, or give more credence to:[...]
- Weather
- Quality of life
- Car friendly policies

You live in upstate NY.
Why in the wild world of sports do you still live and drive near the north pole, if you truly cared for the above?

Originally Posted by kudos

These numbers you posted tell nothing.

And yet, you've posted nothing of value in your response?
Really?

a

[RM7]

Originally Posted by kudos

I lived there for awhile (Ottawa). The country is ran terribly with horrible social and fiscal policies. The only time a Canadian will argue it isn't is when talking to an American. Canadians talking to Canadians will admit just how absolute garbage their politics are for the average tax paying citizen. Their housing market is worse than the U.S. as is their unemployment rate which is 7%.

Wow, I'm sorry you had such a bad time. I've visited several times and my brother lived there for years. Got only good things to say relative for the most part. Better infrastructure, better quality of life due to investment in the people, etc.

[Mikey240]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Folks, please do tell that you don't get your "news" from social media?
And that you don't get wound up around the axle by the same garbage?
Pretty please?

For anyone who doesn't know how to google yet - the above is flase news.
Cali is not "banning your favorite tires".


Since when (or where?) is auto start-stop a law?
And what do you not like about CAFE standards? I pay less for gas today and drive higher performance cars than ever before, partly due to innovation pressures from CAFE (and similar standards in other parts of the world).


It's a measure of the state doing something right for business, as there would not be any money to pay in taxes if there was no business activity taking place.

In other worlds, its an effective rebuttal to all those who falsely claim that it is impossible to start or grow business in California, for one reason or another. Clearly, business are prospering and paying taxes, and doing more so than in any other state.

Simple enough?

You live in upstate NY.
Why in the wild world of sports do you still live and drive near the north pole, if you truly cared for the above?


And yet, you've posted nothing of value in your response?
Really?

a

I didn’t originally mention CAFE or auto start stop but I’ll chime in anyways.

No, there is no law regarding start stop but there was an incentive via federal emissions credits to shove it into cars. That’s been thankfully eliminated now as the feature seems to annoy a lot more people than it pleases. So, not a straight law but with Govt. incentives one could see this having the same effect as a law would. Almost every vehicle has this awful feature and most force you to to defeat it each time you get in the car. It’s dumb, IMO.

CAFE appears at times to be doing good but are they really? Cars are overcomplicated, stuffed with rather cheesy ways to squeak every inch per gallon they can muster while it feels like longevity and such take a back seat to all that stuff. 0w8 weight oils, Start stop, cylinder deactivate BS, etc. Not sure if I agree that CAFE has done much good for the average person and especially not enthusiasts.

Point taken regarding businesses in Cali but aren’t some large ones moving out of there? I’m sure new ones pop up too though. Still a very populous state so there is capital and money there.

Yeah, we’re stuck in NYS due to family and friends for the time being. Not very car friendly at all, I get it. Weather wise though, it is just winter that really sucks. Spring and fall are awesome and we have no droughts, no wildfires, no tornadoes, no hurricanes, no nothing that a lot of the other states have to deal with. Taxes in general are atrocious, even for modest earners and the property tax bills are also UNfun. Plenty that isn’t good here in NY, believe me.

Not gonna argue about who’s state can beat up who’s state though, right? . Whatever. Most of us are stuck where we are and have to make the best of it. Eventually we will get out of NY but not for a good 6-7 years yet. It’s all good.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by afadeev

"And what do you not like about CAFE standards? I pay less for gas today and drive higher performance cars than ever before, partly due to innovation pressures from CAFE..."

a

What in the hell does California have to do with CAFE? CAFE is Federal regulation borne out of the Arab oil embargo(s) of the 1970's.