ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Suspension and Braking Chat
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-03-2015, 01:29 PM   #1
intoflatlines
Lieutenant
intoflatlines's Avatar
United_States
67
Rep
501
Posts

Drives: Z4MR, E34, E30
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Front Sway Bar - Simple/Effective Handling Mod?

I autocross a good amount, and am starting to do more track days. I've spoken to several local BMW autocross people and they swear that an upgraded front sway bar is one of the best mods you can do for better handling. Most of them own Z3M cars, but others own various other BMWs.

How true is this statement for a Z4M Roadster on stock suspension with camber washers? I know my car has significant body roll, so a front sway bar should help to mitigate that, right? But, won't that also decrease cornering grip up front, leading to understeer?

The way my car is set up currently, I feel like it doesn't oversteer too much at autocross. I basically have to be quite aggressive at exit for the rear to kick out. On the track, it does seem to oversteer quite easily if I enter a corner too hot.

So, should I install a front sway bar (and get some sort of mount reinforcement welded) during this offseason? Or will a front sway bar not do much for me/my car?

I'd like to stay away from lowering the car if I can, for now.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2015, 03:15 PM   #2
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1817
Rep
5,337
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

IMO, you need to find out when and where the front end is losing grip. If you're not suffering from any understeer in your autocross courses, adding a front bar willy nilly to "increase roll stiffness" may actually decrease your performance/time.

HOWEVER.

Adding an anti-roll bar up front may result in preventing the front McPherson strut from compressing past its roll center, thus allowing a car with large static camber to take full advantage of the existing camber up front. I've seen cars with a lot of static camber to start with, run a thicker front bar, and get better grip and pick up time.

HOWEVER.

Using anti-roll bars to prevent loss of negative camber isn't nearly as effective as adding STIFFER SPRINGS up front. That's the truth. So if you're going after that last 1/10th of a second for an autocross trophy? I'd probably look into getting stiffer front springs if you're losing grip through loss of camber due to suspension compression past roll center (because MacStrut), because at SOME point adding front anti-roll stiffness will take away grip. It is far easier to control the variables that impact your contact patch in a more linear relationship (i.e. springs and damper settings) than to leave it up to chance.

What I would suggest, is to see if you can set-up an external camera to capture what the wheels and tires are doing in turns. If you're finding that the wheels and tires are compressing well past the roll center, and that the camber on the wheel start to lose negative camber in relationship with the chassis, then you know where your problem is...And at this point, your choices are to either stiffen up the front end via springs, or control the compression settings if you have it, or increase the rebound (surprisingly, this works by preventing the inside shocks from expanding quickly), or if you can't control the spring rate easily, and the car does not offer quick compression controls, to add anti-roll stiffness.

But there's a good reason why a lot of fast guys in Z3/Z3Ms do this, because that chassis came with a semi-trailing arm design in the rear without the additional links to control its geometry, so they're giving up front grip to offset the tendency for that chassis to snap oversteer. In doing so they can control their chassis better/easier thus leading to faster times. On E36 and later chassis, whereby each additional generation has another set of links to control rear suspension geometry, adding front roll stiffness has mixed results.

At the end of the day though, I always go back to "you need to identify the problem first and address it as a driver before you start throwing parts at it." The worst thing you can do is simply assume that parts along will cure your ills, when the root cause is "I went into the turn too hot."

__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2015, 09:28 PM   #3
dc_wright
Captain
dc_wright's Avatar
249
Rep
758
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z43.0si Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

It's a case of pick your poison. Installing a stiffer front sway bar will improve transient response (most impact is in slaloms) but may increase under steer in longer duration maneuvers (wagon wheels, eye brows, 180 degree turn arounds typical of runway courses). As The Hack indicated, struts with increased rebound damping can have the same effect, as can different springs. The struts are the most expensive approach and the springs are the same amount of work to install as the struts. The sway bar install is the least costly to try and less than an hours work to install. If you use adjustable end links it gives you some adjustability of the sway bars effect and would allow you to tune it to the best compromise for autoX. You'll also find that the settings that work the best for autocross are not optimum for the track so you'll need to find the optimum for both and adjust as needed before each type of event.
I've got an H&R sway bar and Koni Sport shocks on my si and running the struts at max rebound stiffness and the strut bar at the rear most connection point has been the best setting so far.
__________________
Top Down 365
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2015, 09:36 AM   #4
intoflatlines
Lieutenant
intoflatlines's Avatar
United_States
67
Rep
501
Posts

Drives: Z4MR, E34, E30
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
IMO, you need to find out when and where the front end is losing grip. If you're not suffering from any understeer in your autocross courses, adding a front bar willy nilly to "increase roll stiffness" may actually decrease your performance/time.

HOWEVER.

Adding an anti-roll bar up front may result in preventing the front McPherson strut from compressing past its roll center, thus allowing a car with large static camber to take full advantage of the existing camber up front. I've seen cars with a lot of static camber to start with, run a thicker front bar, and get better grip and pick up time.

HOWEVER.

Using anti-roll bars to prevent loss of negative camber isn't nearly as effective as adding STIFFER SPRINGS up front. That's the truth. So if you're going after that last 1/10th of a second for an autocross trophy? I'd probably look into getting stiffer front springs if you're losing grip through loss of camber due to suspension compression past roll center (because MacStrut), because at SOME point adding front anti-roll stiffness will take away grip. It is far easier to control the variables that impact your contact patch in a more linear relationship (i.e. springs and damper settings) than to leave it up to chance.

What I would suggest, is to see if you can set-up an external camera to capture what the wheels and tires are doing in turns. If you're finding that the wheels and tires are compressing well past the roll center, and that the camber on the wheel start to lose negative camber in relationship with the chassis, then you know where your problem is...And at this point, your choices are to either stiffen up the front end via springs, or control the compression settings if you have it, or increase the rebound (surprisingly, this works by preventing the inside shocks from expanding quickly), or if you can't control the spring rate easily, and the car does not offer quick compression controls, to add anti-roll stiffness.

But there's a good reason why a lot of fast guys in Z3/Z3Ms do this, because that chassis came with a semi-trailing arm design in the rear without the additional links to control its geometry, so they're giving up front grip to offset the tendency for that chassis to snap oversteer. In doing so they can control their chassis better/easier thus leading to faster times. On E36 and later chassis, whereby each additional generation has another set of links to control rear suspension geometry, adding front roll stiffness has mixed results.

At the end of the day though, I always go back to "you need to identify the problem first and address it as a driver before you start throwing parts at it." The worst thing you can do is simply assume that parts along will cure your ills, when the root cause is "I went into the turn too hot."

Agreed. Of course the biggest and best mod is driver mod, which I am working on improving

I do experience understeer at certain points at autocross (usually lower speed corners), but can't be sure exactly what the cause is. My alignment is set to -2.7* in front and -2.0* in the rear.

So you think that springs/shocks might be a bigger improvement vs. a front sway bar? My only worry regarding that is that I feel like I'm very close to rubbing already (245/40/18x9+42 front, 275/35/18x10+25 rear, plus 5mm spacers in front) and lowering the car might open a whole new can of worms. 5mm spacer is to clear the strut in front, due to the camber washers. So I could pull the 5mm spacers if I get camber plates too, and gain a few mm of fender clearance but I'm not sure it will be enough. And I don't really want to do new suspension and camber plates, plus wheels/tires at the same time.

I don't have GoPro video of my front wheels but here are some pictures from autocross which I think somewhat show how the suspension is traveling, and some exterior video from 2014. Same setup, just with tires that were newer at the time. Not sure if it's helpful at all. What do you think?


At 0:59 you can see a good view from the front of the slalom, followed by understeer at corner entry.


When this video goes into slow motion it looks like the outside front wheel has positive camber. I know I shouldn't have tapped the brakes












Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
It's a case of pick your poison. Installing a stiffer front sway bar will improve transient response (most impact is in slaloms) but may increase under steer in longer duration maneuvers (wagon wheels, eye brows, 180 degree turn arounds typical of runway courses). As The Hack indicated, struts with increased rebound damping can have the same effect, as can different springs. The struts are the most expensive approach and the springs are the same amount of work to install as the struts. The sway bar install is the least costly to try and less than an hours work to install. If you use adjustable end links it gives you some adjustability of the sway bars effect and would allow you to tune it to the best compromise for autoX. You'll also find that the settings that work the best for autocross are not optimum for the track so you'll need to find the optimum for both and adjust as needed before each type of event.
I've got an H&R sway bar and Koni Sport shocks on my si and running the struts at max rebound stiffness and the strut bar at the rear most connection point has been the best setting so far.
Thanks for the info. Does the si share any suspension components with the M?
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2015, 10:21 AM   #5
dc_wright
Captain
dc_wright's Avatar
249
Rep
758
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z43.0si Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by intoflatlines View Post

Thanks for the info. Does the si share any suspension components with the M?
Might be a couple of flat washers that are common, but otherwise not much LOL. The Z4M suspension is derived from the E36M3 while the other Z4s are from the E46. My car came with the M Sport suspension, but the only parts I still have on the car are the springs and the rear sway bar.

One thing you can work on that will help is getting off the brakes before you're cutting into your turns. If you're braking and turning you've doubled the dynamic load on the front tires. You can roll through turns faster than you can brake and turn.

Do you left foot brake? If not, you should learn how to do it, as it can shave quite a bit of time off your autocross runs.
__________________
Top Down 365
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2015, 10:29 AM   #6
intoflatlines
Lieutenant
intoflatlines's Avatar
United_States
67
Rep
501
Posts

Drives: Z4MR, E34, E30
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
Might be a couple of flat washers that are common, but otherwise not much LOL. The Z4M suspension is derived from the E36M3 while the other Z4s are from the E46. My car came with the M Sport suspension, but the only parts I still have on the car are the springs and the rear sway bar.

One thing you can work on that will help is getting off the brakes before you're cutting into your turns. If you're braking and turning you've doubled the dynamic load on the front tires. You can roll through turns faster than you can brake and turn.

Do you left foot brake? If not, you should learn how to do it, as it can shave quite a bit of time off your autocross runs.
A bunch of people have suggested I try left foot braking lately... might have to give it a shot. I do it in iRacing all the time, but of course that's different from real life. For some corners I do trailbrake, although I don't think that was the case here.
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2015, 10:45 AM   #7
dc_wright
Captain
dc_wright's Avatar
249
Rep
758
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z43.0si Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by intoflatlines View Post
A bunch of people have suggested I try left foot braking lately... might have to give it a shot. I do it in iRacing all the time, but of course that's different from real life. For some corners I do trailbrake, although I don't think that was the case here.
It takes some practice to get good at it but it's low hanging fruit with respect to time reduction. Even if it only saves 0.05 seconds per braking/accelerating event, if there are 20 of those on a given course you just took a full second off your time.......
__________________
Top Down 365
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2015, 05:52 AM   #8
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

my z4m roadster with clubsports and stock ARBs is the perfect balance. Honestly don't know why id need to upgrade the bars, literally most of the roll has gone but the tiny bit that is their is actually useful and helps grip, it feels fantastic.

So basically the biggest difference for me was putting a proper coilover setup on. Try again and i bet you leave the bars alone!
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2015, 04:43 PM   #9
Bossdog
Private First Class
Bossdog's Avatar
27
Rep
143
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z4MR Imola Red
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SE Michigan

iTrader: (0)

I know this advice has been given a thousand times on hundreds of car blogs, But . . . Evolution driving school!
Perhaps you have already taken more than a few Driving schools?
Perhaps Modding is just more fun!
Perhaps you have the funds to do both?

A 2 days evo school is about $500, say you need to spend 2 days in a Hotel, Add $300. $800 weekend. You're near Chicago, I would think you could find an Evo school with in 4 hours drive time almost every year, Plus you have the tire rack school very near by eliminating the need for a hotel.

The club Sport Coilover kit is $3,200 without Camber plates, which I think most would agree is a nice improvement.
My guess is that most of us would experience better greater benefit from 4 to 6 schools (if you haven't done that) than upgraded suspension on a car that is set up Pretty well.

If I was to upgrade any hardware on my Z4M, I'd do sway bar(s) with adjustable end links and play with all the settings, and spend the rest of that cash on Driving school. You can change sway bar settings while at the driving school at lunch time if you REALLY wanted to. That is 4 setups in 2 days under relatively similar conditions. you could potentially learn a lot about your cars set up for around $1000. In the end, you may find out adding swaybar(s) is of no benefit, or, possibly a nice improvement.

Have fun! IMO, half the fun is figuring this stuff out for your car and your driving style.

Last edited by Bossdog; 12-07-2015 at 09:58 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2015, 07:57 PM   #10
dc_wright
Captain
dc_wright's Avatar
249
Rep
758
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z43.0si Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossdog View Post
I know this advice has been given a thousand times on hundreds of car blogs, Butt . . . Evolution driving school!
Perhaps you have already taken more than a few Driving schools?
Perhaps Modding is just more fun!
Perhaps you have the funds to do both?

A 2 days evo school is about $500, say you need to spend 2 days in a Hotel, Add $300. $800 weekend. You're near Chicago, I would think you could find an Evo school with in 4 hours drive time almost every year, Plus you have the tire rack school very near by eliminating the need for a hotel.

The club Sport Coilover kit is $3,200 without Camber plates, which I think most would agree is a nice improvement.
My guess is that most of us would experience better greater benefit from 4 to 6 schools (if you haven't done that) than upgraded suspension on a car that is set up Pretty well.

If I was to upgrade any hardware on my Z4M, I'd do sway bar(s) with adjustable end links and play with all the settings, and spend the rest of that cash on Driving school. You can change sway bar settings while at the driving school at lunch time if you REALLY wanted to. That is 4 setups in 2 days under relatively similar conditions. you could potentially learn a lot about your cars set up for around $1000. In the end, you may find out adding swaybar(s) is of no benefit, or, possibly a nice improvement.

Have fun! IMO, half the fun is figuring this stuff out for your car and your driving style.
This x 100! To be truly fast at autocross you have to be able to use the dynamics of the car's suspension to make it move around to get through the course. Just steering through the course is slow regardless of what suspension you have installed. The Evo schools will definitely help with this.
__________________
Top Down 365
Appreciate 0
      12-10-2015, 11:07 AM   #11
intoflatlines
Lieutenant
intoflatlines's Avatar
United_States
67
Rep
501
Posts

Drives: Z4MR, E34, E30
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

I definitely am working improve my driver mod but at this point I am looking at suspension mods.
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2015, 10:19 PM   #12
dc_wright
Captain
dc_wright's Avatar
249
Rep
758
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z43.0si Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by intoflatlines View Post
I definitely am working improve my driver mod but at this point I am looking at suspension mods.
Koni Sport's and a stiffer front sway will make some difference. If nothing else the car will have less body roll.

Here's my car working my way through a slalom at the start of the course. Looks like a lot less body roll than you're seeing.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/133057...7660473591298/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/133057...7660473591298/
__________________
Top Down 365
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2015, 07:52 AM   #13
2skiddy
Private First Class
67
Rep
104
Posts

Drives: Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Notts UK

iTrader: (0)

Hi, I fitted 30mm Eibach lowering springs and carefully put the shims/washers in the strut to spindle. Fitted longer 12.9 bolts and cleaned out the threads on the spindle, as they were starting to corrode a little in there and jammed up the bolts! The car was loads better, lean in corners was vastly improved and I decided not to bother with uprating the ARBs. This was a back to back test on track, and the improvement was pretty good for minimal outlay. Yes the coilovers would be better, and I would go that route first, if I got another road going Z4MC. The ARBs were beneficial on my E46 M3 that I had a couple of years before, even after lowering springs, yet not necessary for me on the Z.
Appreciate 0
      12-20-2015, 09:54 AM   #14
exdos
Second Lieutenant
England
6
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: Z3 M Coupe(S54) and Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Uprated anti-roll bars on the Z3M is a must and the best bang for buck mod on that platform, but not the case for the Z4M.

Looking at your vids, particularly the one with the wiggle, I'd say that RTAB limiters would be a helpful first mod if you've not already done that.
Appreciate 0
      12-20-2015, 10:52 AM   #15
dc_wright
Captain
dc_wright's Avatar
249
Rep
758
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z43.0si Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2skiddy View Post
Hi, I fitted 30mm Eibach lowering springs and carefully put the shims/washers in the strut to spindle. Fitted longer 12.9 bolts and cleaned out the threads on the spindle, as they were starting to corrode a little in there and jammed up the bolts! The car was loads better, lean in corners was vastly improved and I decided not to bother with uprating the ARBs. This was a back to back test on track, and the improvement was pretty good for minimal outlay. Yes the coilovers would be better, and I would go that route first, if I got another road going Z4MC. The ARBs were beneficial on my E46 M3 that I had a couple of years before, even after lowering springs, yet not necessary for me on the Z.
Quote:
Originally Posted by exdos View Post
Uprated anti-roll bars on the Z3M is a must and the best bang for buck mod on that platform, but not the case for the Z4M.

Looking at your vids, particularly the one with the wiggle, I'd say that RTAB limiters would be a helpful first mod if you've not already done that.
No question there are mods you can do that provide more impact than a sway bar change, but for many of the groups that organize the events, their rules dictate some pretty heavy handicapping or classing penalties for mods beyond the shocks and a sway bar. Just depends on what your goals are. If you just want to go faster and don't care about where you fall vs. the competition you can do your mods and then let the chips fall. If you do care about where you fall in your classing, the last thing you want to do is install one mod that moves you into a class competing against other cars fully modified to the class limits where you're likely to consistently get your butt kicked.
__________________
Top Down 365
Appreciate 0
      03-30-2017, 12:51 PM   #16
JJZ4MR
Private First Class
JJZ4MR's Avatar
29
Rep
194
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Roadster
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Largo Fl

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Reclassing

dc, you warned me about this BEFORE I installed my VT MM RE TM and I just signed up for my 2nd autoX ( Brooksville April 8th ) FAST has a memo option for the organizer when you sign up and I VOLUNTARILY submitted my mods. Did not hear back, so we will see. At this point I'm just wanting to firm things up, Starting at the drive train and working my way "out". Which is why I'm reading all this site has to offer for knowledge of what my next step should be as far as suspension goes.
Sway Bar.. Seems like I don't need it
RTAB........Seems like pretty wise, Powerflex from Bimmerworld $100/tool
FCAB........Seems to make sense I like the Ground Control, though pricey
Limiters....Good bang for the buck
Strut Bar...Mixed thoughts all around on this one
8 piece subframe poly set....easy install compared to complete overhaul. Any of your input/advise on any of these pieces ( with specific Manufactures to go with or stay away from would be appreciated as always). I'm probably a year away from HPDE at this point. I really like the autoX, so I want to start there, get better, then move up. At 56K on my 06 I think I want to replace this stuff to tighten up a car that drives great to me, but I know the OEM parts have a lot of degrading on them. My OEM MM, PS was at least 1/2 " shorter/compressed than the DS. So glad I did these now. Now that I've read up on Vanos problems I'm noticing a VERY SMALL marbelly sound coming at 3200 RPM....."ALMOST" wish I hadn't read up on these vanos.
__________________
Topless and getting my degree

Last edited by JJZ4MR; 03-30-2017 at 02:04 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-02-2017, 09:12 PM   #17
dc_wright
Captain
dc_wright's Avatar
249
Rep
758
Posts

Drives: 2006 Z43.0si Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJZ4MR View Post
dc, you warned me about this BEFORE I installed my VT MM RE TM and I just signed up for my 2nd autoX ( Brooksville April 8th ) FAST has a memo option for the organizer when you sign up and I VOLUNTARILY submitted my mods. Did not hear back, so we will see. At this point I'm just wanting to firm things up, Starting at the drive train and working my way "out". Which is why I'm reading all this site has to offer for knowledge of what my next step should be as far as suspension goes.
Sway Bar.. Seems like I don't need it
RTAB........Seems like pretty wise, Powerflex from Bimmerworld $100/tool
FCAB........Seems to make sense I like the Ground Control, though pricey
Limiters....Good bang for the buck
Strut Bar...Mixed thoughts all around on this one
8 piece subframe poly set....easy install compared to complete overhaul. Any of your input/advise on any of these pieces ( with specific Manufactures to go with or stay away from would be appreciated as always). I'm probably a year away from HPDE at this point. I really like the autoX, so I want to start there, get better, then move up. At 56K on my 06 I think I want to replace this stuff to tighten up a car that drives great to me, but I know the OEM parts have a lot of degrading on them. My OEM MM, PS was at least 1/2 " shorter/compressed than the DS. So glad I did these now. Now that I've read up on Vanos problems I'm noticing a VERY SMALL marbelly sound coming at 3200 RPM....."ALMOST" wish I hadn't read up on these vanos.
FAST is a lot looser with classing than most other groups so your bushing and mount changes don't push you out of their S1 class. With any group using strict SCCA classing you'd be in B Street Prepared. BMWCCA uses a point system so if you run with them you'd need to look at their classing guide to figure your points total. Chris Larson in his BSP S2000 would be one of your competitors running with SCCA.
__________________
Top Down 365
Appreciate 1
JJZ4MR29.00
      04-03-2017, 02:35 PM   #18
JJZ4MR
Private First Class
JJZ4MR's Avatar
29
Rep
194
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Roadster
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Largo Fl

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Good to know. I know that as things are right now, points and classing are of little to no importance to me. AX/HPDE is going to be less than 1% of my seat time. I'm really just thinking that I PLAN on keeping this car for 10 years or more. Bushings/endlinks and all moving parts under strain are going to be looser, degraded and just generally not as good as when this car came off the production line. OEM is always an option on these parts, but it seems the aftermarket performance segment has quite a bit to offer. My goal is to get all the handling I can. I forgot to mention NEW SPRINGS in my list. As I have read previously that the spring rate is not the greatest on the M. dc...I know you have a different car in your 3.0, but anyone else with an opinion/first hand knowledge please feel free to weigh in.

Cool video, the S200 was at the top of my list for awhile in the 5 months I sought purchasing a roadster. I watched a lot of great videos this weekend and got to do quite a bit of driving. I " slalomed " on a very wide boulevard near me, practiced driving as close to road reflectors to find my line on both sides of the car ( again ) as it has been 3 months since my first AX.
__________________
Topless and getting my degree

Last edited by JJZ4MR; 04-03-2017 at 04:52 PM..
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:20 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST