Z4M with 120k miles for $16.75k or 3.0si with 65k miles for $13k

[EintrachtAdler]

Having a bit of a dilemma.

I've been in the market for a clean manual e85 3.0si for the past several weeks and managed to find a super clean one with 65k miles in black (but sadly without sport seats) about 15 hours from me for $13k. However, I also managed to stumble upon an imola red Z4M roadster with a stellar service history with 120k miles. It's about 8 hours from me and near my gf's parents so it would be easy to get. The road bearings haven't been done yet, so I was able to get him to go down to $16.75k.

Now I'm torn on which is the better choice. Obviously ignoring price and mileage, the M is the obvious choice as the better car and can still be driven at 8/10ths relatively legally, but then everyone describes the 3.0si as an absolute sweetheart with just the right amount of power to drive 10/10ths and the N52 as a bit more bulletproof than the S54. I have more than enough money to buy both and to do the rod bearings if I go with the M or upgrade the seats if I go with the 3.0si, but is an M with twice as many miles and for $4k more a better choice than the 3.0si? I guess the ultimate difference is the market for each, since I can afford both. Basically, if I own the M for 3 years and then sell it with 150k miles (hoping I'll love it so much I won't sell it that soon), would the resale value be better than the 3.0si's in 3 years and at that point 105k miles? Basically the real cost to own calculation. If it seems like I would lose less on an M with 150k miles than a 3.0si with 105k miles (again, not necessarily planning to sell but a cost of ownership), then I would probably go with the M, but I can't tell if the $16.75k price tag positions me well or not. Is 120k miles a lot for an S54 after the rod bearings are done that nobody would wanna touch if in several years for resale? I don't think I'd be upset with the experience of the 3.0si at all, but then an M would be all the better. The red is also much prettier than the black imo.

Thanks! Need to decide soon before either get bought up so appreciate your thoughts. I guess at the end of the day for me it doesn't come down to experience, I'd love both, but rather better value for money and/or longevity of the engine at their respective mileages.

[maupineda]

You can find a lower miles M for maybe a tad more. Get an M, just wait for a lower mileage sample

[TRiCC]

With my past experience owning a 3.0si roadster, M roadster, and currently an M coupe, if this is going to be an extra weekend fun car. I would pick the M variant even with those miles, imo its a raw visceral feeling a more racecar type. If its going to be a daily driver primary car the 3.0si roadster, lively enough to be fun but more liveable for daily, mpg consumption, and cheaper overall cost/maintenance. Either are great choices and can be both driven daily if you chose! Welcome to the ZPost!

[XMetal]

It will boil down to which side of your brain will be making the ultimate decision? The emotional side would say M while the logical side always goes for the Si.

[wdb]

You said it yourself: you can afford to buy both. Do it. The cars are different enough and comparing them one on one is a real kick. I did it with coupes. And, by the way, the M is not the "better" car. It's the "other" car.

[grannyknot]

I love my M coupe but I have also driven a friends 3.0si and it was nothing to sneeze at, I kept up easily with the rest of the Z4M's on a 2 hr spirited drive.
I was quite impressed with it, it was lots of fun to drive.

[cbpip]

Get the Si and switch the rear to an LSD W/3.73 clutch type gearing and it will hang all day with the M. Less maintenance issues.

[pungo]

Originally Posted by cbpip

Get the Si and switch the rear to an LSD W/3.73 clutch type gearing and it will hang all day with the M. Less maintenance issues.

Both are great cars in their own ways and they did an awesome job tweaking the performance on the si. Having owed both a si and M for many years, I disagree with simply putting a LSD in the si making it hang with the M. For the M, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, better steering, better brakes, better steering wheel, more power, front brake cooling ducts, quad exhaust, track mode, more available performance mods, standard sport seats, etc...it's the complete package, not the individual parts.

For a daily driver, the si is the more civilized better choice and more than capable, but as a 2nd car for fun, it is the ///M FTW...

It's amazing how different these 2 cars are from each other. The best advice I can give to the OP is drive both and decide.

[cbpip]

To each his own, cost and maintaining the two are significant differences. Lower cost and lower miles at buy in on the SI and same smiles /mile.

[Huz-Z]

Some SI reviews:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ake-road-test/


http://www.moto123.com/imprimer_article.spy?artid=90628

Good luck with the hunt!

[jwolf]

The motors are somewhat the same up until the SI tach says stop and the M says GO. Many people don't get up there. If I had an M, I would live there.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by jwolf

The motors are somewhat the same up until the SI tach says stop and the M says GO. Many people don't get up there. If I had an M, I would live there.

The M does rev higher but it also has more torque in general. The 3.0si just sings sweetly all the the way through. I’ll keep saying it — they are two very different experiences.

[maupineda]

I had a 130i which had the si engine, and I remapped it and had the OE performance exhaust and intake, and never it came close to the S54, as. Sweet as the N52 is, is nothing like the S54.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by maupineda

I had a 130i which had the si engine, and I remapped it and had the OE performance exhaust and intake, and never it came close to the S54, as. Sweet as the N52 is, is nothing like the S54.

Nothing like it. I agree!! And that is a large part of what makes the two cars so different. the N52 weighs almost 200 lbs. less than the S54, for one thing. That and the electric vs. hydraulic steering racks make for a very different front end response. That's probably the biggest contributor to the different experiences the two cars provide, in terms of handling.

I guess my main point is that, when I had both cars, I had a hard time deciding which set of keys to grab when heading out for a drive. They're both great; different, but great.

[Efthreeoh]

8/10ths vs. 10/10ths... legally...(?)...

So, you mean driven on the street. I have a 3.0si Coupe. If you drive the 3.0si at 10/10ths on the street, you'll eventually end up in jail. Yup, the M is much faster because it has more HP and a slightly better suspension, but the N52 E85 has plenty of power for the chassis and on back country roads will not get lost from the M version. You can only go so fast on the street.

My 2 cents.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

8/10ths vs. 10/10ths... legally...(?)...

So, you mean driven on the street. I have a 3.0si Coupe. If you drive the 3.0si at 10/10ths on the street, you'll eventually end up in jail. Yup, the M is much faster because it has more HP and a slightly better suspension, but the N52 E85 has plenty of power for the chassis and on back country roads will not get lost from the M version. You can only go so fast on the street.

My 2 cents.

N52 is also significantly lighter than S54 (someone here was mentioning 255lbs difference) so 3.0si will be less nose-heavy.
Not even speaking of reliability

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by vt100

N52 is also significantly lighter than S54 (someone here was mentioning 255lbs difference) so 3.0si will be less nose-heavy.
Not even speaking of reliability

Whaaaat? N52 reliability? I wouldn't know anything about it.

[Huz-Z]

From the Car and Driver article I poster a link to, above:

“The suspension tweaks improve the ride while maintaining the great handling. In fact, we think the 3.0si more nimbly changes direction than an M roadster, largely due to the lighter engine over its nose.”

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by wdb

Nothing like it. I agree!! And that is a large part of what makes the two cars so different. the N52 weighs almost 200 lbs. less than the S54, for one thing. That and the electric vs. hydraulic steering racks make for a very different front end response. That's probably the biggest contributor to the different experiences the two cars provide, in terms of handling.

I guess my main point is that, when I had both cars, I had a hard time deciding which set of keys to grab when heading out for a drive. They're both great; different, but great.

I've written this before, but when I bought my E86 3.0si I did not realize the steering was electric. I only discovered that fact when I went to check the fluids after purchase and couldn't locate the PS reservoir. I went to Realoem.com to double check.

And I'm no stranger to BMW steering systems after at-that-time being a 26-year BMW veteran. I know you prefer the hydraulic Z4, but the electric system is a very good emulation to fluid-assist, unlike later EPS systems from BMW (cough.. cough... F30).

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've written this before, but when I bought my E86 3.0si I did not realize the steering was electric. I only discovered that fact when I went to check the fluids after purchase and couldn't locate the PS reservoir. I went to Realoem.com to double check.

That's hilarious!

And I'm no stranger to BMW steering systems after at-that-time being a 26-year BMW veteran. I know you prefer the hydraulic Z4, but the electric system is a very good emulation to fluid-assist, unlike later EPS systems from BMW (cough.. cough... F30).

Unlike a bunch of reviewers in period, I have no complaints about the Z4 electric steering. It's different from the M car, that's all.

[pungo]

Great discussion, though it appears as though the OP has left the building

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by wdb

That's hilarious!

Unlike a bunch of reviewers in period, I have no complaints about the Z4 electric steering. It's different from the M car, that's all.

Yes, I've seen where you have stated that previously about the hydraulic and electric systems in the Z4. I think EPS in general gets an unfair rating from enthusiasts who have no direct experience with it. IMO, EPS needs to be judged on a case by case basis. Some EPS systems are quite good and some are not. My point with the Z4 EPS is it in the quite good category because it fooled me. When I learned of the Z4's system design I really like the architecture of it. I think powering the steering shaft rather than the steering rack is ingenious. I'm not sure why BMW dropped the design in favor of a powered steering rack on other models after the E85/86 era.

The EPS in my Bronco is quite good as well; yes, it's an ORV but within the perspective of that vehicle type, the EPS well executed by Ford.