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      08-20-2010, 08:53 PM   #1
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The Turner MotorSports E36 Front Camber Kit.

I just put the Turner Shim Kit on last weekend. You can SEE the camber in the front wheels. They fronts look like they have more camber than the rear.

Before I put the kit in, I put the camber pins back in the top of the struts. This was so I started from a baseline and so I have some adjustment if there is a variance in camber between the right and left side.

One thing about the kit.
The kit comes with three washers. One washer always goes on the outside of the new bolt.

I used two washers between the new bolts and the stut kingpin. Looking at the washers, they looked like any other washer you could buy in a parts store. Not a machined component, but hell, the kit is only $15.00
So with this in mind, I used my micrometer to measure the thickness of each washer, then mixed and matched each set. This was so I could get each washer set (two sets on each side) to have approximately the same delta. I was able to get the difference between the right and left side to about .1mm, so they are not exactly the same.

Each washer set turned out to be approximately 5mm thick.

I am getting the car aligned on Monday, so I will then be able to tell you what the camber data is after the kit install and if I have to pull any of the camber pins to get each side exactly the same.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=TSU3690036
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      08-20-2010, 11:32 PM   #2
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Pictures?
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      08-21-2010, 08:02 PM   #3
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You wanted pictures! Here you go.
Not sure you can see the camber on the front wheels...
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      08-22-2010, 07:15 AM   #4
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I'm assuming that you want more negative camber in front to reduce tire wear and/or reduce understeer at the track. It is a weakness of the strut type front suspension which does not do a good job of maintaining wheel camber with body roll. Since there is some adjustment available at the top of the strut, you should be able to get both sides even by adjusting one or both top strut mounts slightly. You will get best performance at the track from the front suspension with a lot of negative camber, about 3.0 to 3.5 degrees, but this is not a good setting for a street driven car. Most dual purpose street/track cars end up with a compromise setting somewhere around 2 degrees negative in front. If your biggest concern is understeer, you can also reduce that by setting the front toe to zero, which will decrease straight line stability but will improve front cornering grip.
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      08-23-2010, 09:42 AM   #5
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Just got back from having an alignment performed.

The camber kit has moved my front camber to -2.4 (Left) and -2.4 (Right). Camber pins are installed on top.

Of course the front toe was off and that was corrected.

The big suprise, since I did not touch the rear was the right rear toe was WAYY off, but the left rear toe was close..

That was readjusted.

Rear camber is maxed out at -2.0, both sides. If I want to change that then I will need new adjustable rear camber arms. That's not happening for a while, if ever. Not ready to go that extreme yet.
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      08-25-2010, 08:20 PM   #6
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Any sign that the right rear wheel was hit against something? You might not know since you aren't the original owner.
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      08-25-2010, 09:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car62 View Post
Any sign that the right rear wheel was hit against something? You might not know since you aren't the original owner.

No sign of that but thats a good question.

I am really liking the extra camber on the front. Hitting some on/off ramps a little hot... and it really feel good.
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      08-28-2010, 05:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
I am really liking the extra camber on the front. Hitting some on/off ramps a little hot... and it really feel good.
Extra front grip is good. Until it exceeds the rear grip and the back end steps out. But that's what quick reflexes and DSC are for.
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      08-28-2010, 03:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
No sign of that but thats a good question.

I am really liking the extra camber on the front. Hitting some on/off ramps a little hot... and it really feel good.
It's a good cheap "fix" without going for camber plates isn't it?

Skelekitty's car is set to -1.5 front -2.0 rear, but she's looking for more up front so I think we'll reset that to -2.0. Do you think -2.4 is too much for what is mainly a street car/canyon carver?
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      08-28-2010, 03:14 PM   #10
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Factory alignment was way off spec on all Z4M's I've been exposed to.
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      08-28-2010, 05:41 PM   #11
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Finnegan
I have -2.4 with the camber pins installed. I could get more with them pulled but I drive the car every day and more than that would REALLY increase front tire wear....

I personally don't think -2.4 is too much for a street/canyon carver, though it probably is the max for a street car (another opinion). But you will really have to do it, align it, and let Kitty drive it. But she will love it in the canyon's. So will you. Remember, Kitty in not a normal woman driver. She has some skills and it getting more....

Some say that the Bimmerworld kit is better due to the one piece shim that cover both bolts. I don't see it. The strut only attaches to the lower portion of the kingpin at those two bolts and there is a space in between. eg. it's not a continual mount point. The bolts in the Turner kit are 10.5 grade bolts so I assume (now that's scary) that they are stronger than stock.

One thing though. I have the toe set to .05 (it's in spec) and with the extra camber it makes the car a tad nervous?? in a straight line. That may be too strong a word. It tracks straight but the steering feel is light in the straights so you have to keep on top of it. Of course this is the first alignment that I have had since I bought the car in Feb. so the alignment may have been a tad off and I have gotten use to it so now it feels the way it should...
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      08-28-2010, 06:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
Finnegan
I have -2.4 with the camber pins installed. I could get more with them pulled but I drive the car every day and more than that would REALLY increase front tire wear....

I personally don't think -2.4 is too much for a street/canyon carver, though it probably is the max for a street car (another opinion). But you will really have to do it, align it, and let Kitty drive it. But she will love it in the canyon's. So will you. Remember, Kitty in not a normal woman driver. She has some skills and it getting more....

Some say that the Bimmerworld kit is better due to the one piece shim that cover both bolts. I don't see it. The strut only attaches to the lower portion of the kingpin at those two bolts and there is a space in between. eg. it's not a continual mount point. The bolts in the Turner kit are 10.5 grade bolts so I assume (now that's scary) that they are stronger than stock.

One thing though. I have the toe set to .05 (it's in spec) and with the extra camber it makes the car a tad nervous?? in a straight line. That may be too strong a word. It tracks straight but the steering feel is light in the straights so you have to keep on top of it. Of course this is the first alignment that I have had since I bought the car in Feb. so the alignment may have been a tad off and I have gotten use to it so now it feels the way it should...
Thanks for the feedback Shipkiller!

I could be wrong, but yeah, as the camber increases the car requires more attention in a straight line. Toe seems to okay for street from what I've read/learned. (But I'm open to others saying otherwise. Lots of guys on here with way more knowledge than me!) Seems that way to me at least. I think it's a direct result of the improved turn-in/bite you get with those settings.

There's always a trade off with settings (I think this is why Car62 was saying -3.0 or -3.5, while great at the track, wasn't great on the street). The other issue is that on the street there are ruts/grooves from SUVs and semis digging into the pavement, and camber (and excessive toe) makes the car more sensitive to this. Those aren't conditions you'd find at a track, so....

I think we'll kick things up to a tad over -2.0 in front. 'Kitty says she's aware of the "downside" of the camber settings, but says "when I drive I'm driving, and I'm focused only on driving, so I'm paying attention and it's not an issue." Like you said, she's not a normal woman driver. That's one of the things I love about her--my wife the gearhead.
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      08-29-2010, 03:34 PM   #13
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You should have more camber front than rear anyway.
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      08-31-2010, 05:37 AM   #14
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Hi all

I've just received my turner kit
with the pins pulled out i have -1.5, how much negative camber could I get with 1 washer inside the strut (2 outside and 1 inside) and keeping the pins pilled out

How many negative camber provide every washer on the inside of the strut??

if shipkiller get 2.4 with pins on top, every washer provides more on less 0,7º of negative camber???

Thanksss
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      08-31-2010, 02:04 PM   #15
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Turner should give you guys commission....because of this thread, I just purchased the kit.
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      08-31-2010, 02:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind32 View Post
Turner should give you guys commission....because of this thread, I just purchased the kit.
Just remember to mic out the washers, then mix and match them for better consistency. This only took me about 5 min per side with my micrometer.
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      08-31-2010, 05:16 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
Just remember to mic out the washers, then mix and match them for better consistency. This only took me about 5 min per side with my micrometer.
How'd the alignment go? Final specs? Still got that nervous feeling on the straights?
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      08-31-2010, 05:57 PM   #18
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No kidding, should have gotten a group buy together, mine is showing up Thursday...

Pretty sure I'm going to go with -2.5 (or whatever I get with pins back in). But for toe, I was thinking to go with zero toe. Have an alignment on Friday and track on saturday, autocross on monday. So, I'll post back results on what I ended up with and how it handled.
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      08-31-2010, 07:13 PM   #19
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As stated in post #5 alignment went well and the specs are in that post.

The car never really nervous/fidgety in the straights. I think a better way of describing it is now more precise/sensitive. I have gotten use to it, rather quickly, in the last two weeks. It was never bad, just different than what I was use to.
I did forget to post what my toe is now.

Front Toe: .05
Rear Toe: .19

Having -2.4' of front camber really lets you feel/control the car in the turns.

I don't really know what the best toe settings are for the street/track combination of driving. Time will tell.

I have a Track weekend at the new track, NCCAR in Roanoke Rapids, NC starting on the 17th. The true test.

Last edited by Shipkiller; 09-01-2010 at 06:52 AM..
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      09-01-2010, 06:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
As stated in post #5 alignment went well and the specs are in that post.
Sorry, I had the time line wrong - was thinking it was this past Monday, the 30th....thanks
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      09-01-2010, 06:51 AM   #21
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No worries..

We all get confueseded.....
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      09-01-2010, 07:00 AM   #22
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^Do you see any reason this can't be done with over the counter hardware?
It's a bit of a pain to deal with shipping and customs for something as simple as this appears to be.

I have an industrial hdwr outlet 5 min from me.
I'll be getting my engine mount hdwr there as well.
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