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      01-12-2016, 03:01 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
Edit: To be clear, the S54 block is plenty strong for a stock or mildly boosted car. The disagreement arises on whether it is suitable for the 1000 horsepower builds without additional work like sleeves.
No 1000 WHP engine will run forever. No matter how well built it is. It's not a matter if it will break, but when. A side from that, sleeving an iron block makes little sense. In the S54s case it makes even less if you were to drill the cylinders out to fit sleeves. The cylinder walls would be too thin to offer any support for the sleeves themselves, thus making a sleeved S54 weaker than a stock block. That's just the info I got from someone who's probably the best in the biz when it comes to BMW turbos. As far as I know HPF tried to sleeve the S54 block, but had no or little success.

And the S54 would run a significant amount less boost than a M50 at 1000 WHP, the dual vanos on the S54 would help with the powerband as well. Assuming you'd use a non vanos M50 which seem to be the most popular choice.
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      01-12-2016, 05:01 PM   #68
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Agree to disagree. Sleeving doesn't take much out of the block, but that's not my area of expertise. I know HPF sleeved their motors (at least for a while... I'm not sure what their "Stage 5" build had), and I know multiple stock S54 blocks that have failed at 700-800 whp. Often the information isn't shared, because people jump to conclusions about tuning and engine building capabilities. They assume Shop X can't build motors as well as Shop Y, because Shop X blew up a motor while Shop Y still has theirs running and making more power. At those power levels, it's all about showmanship to draw in more business. Few shops will admit they pushed the limits too far for too long.

Attached are a few dynos I found with a quick Google search. I don't claim any rights to the images. You'll notice the high horsepower S52 motors spool quicker, and both are run to similar rpm as the built S54's (8000 rpm and 7400 rpm).

@4.5k rpm (whp), S52 (460/620); S54 (240/275)
@5k rpm (whp), S52 (700/900); S54 (320/400)
@5.5k rpm (whp), S52 (800/1090); S54 (450/660)

The MaxPSI car is even tuned on the stock DME. The HPF car's dyno was not SAE corrected (probably because it didn't hit 1000 whp with SAE correction)... nonetheless, it ran 29 psi of boost. The Maximum PSI car ran 34 psi of boost. I don't know what the other two cars ran.

My original comment was regarding the S54 having thin cylinder walls, and how the older iron block engines have gained a following due to their ruggedness. I think everyone was fascinated by the S54 for quite a while, but lately we've found that the limits of the stock M/S 50/52 are higher. I'd rather not derail the thread further... I only wanted to point out that the thin cylinder walls do make a difference when it comes to extreme builds, and the older engines seem to be more comfortable with high levels of boost. At stock or moderate boost levels, the S54 has no issues.
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      01-13-2016, 11:46 AM   #69
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It's hard to compare different dyno charts when they haven't been on the same dyno and comparing 2 different engine responses is hard when you don't know what setup they use.

I know this is and old thread (from 2013) and it's in Swedish, but here's a S54 that's been runing 1130 WHP for 3 years and more than 10000 km's. Engine haven't been opened, only regular oil changes. Weak block?

http://server.pure-pf.com/phpBB/view...5621&hilit=s54

Thread about 2 S54's that runs over 1000 WHP and they are no dyno queens either.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=325046






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      01-13-2016, 01:08 PM   #70
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That's a seriously demonic S54... I would just be terrified of that thing.
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      01-18-2016, 09:48 PM   #71
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So here's a massive update on the car. It's been about a week into the update but I have two visits worth of decent (ish) photos. The gentlemen working on the car is still in the process of measuring everything out and getting all the minor bits together. He's doing everything to the best of his abilities and I respectively will wait. Completion time is looking like some time next week. Onto the photos!


New Pistons and block from Germany



The Cleaned Up Head



For Reference, here's the same head.



A good look at the assortment of parts that have been organized (this was a while back)


The infamous transmission



The Layout



One of the new pistons



The Cleaned Up Crank





The Old Block





The newly Jet Coated Euro Headers



A shot of the empty engine bay




A shot of the "New" now Old Rod Bearings that were done in the job that caused the failure.



You can already see wear on them on the far left side, unlike many that see wear in the bottom, which is where my old set saw wear. A little crazy.


I'll post some more updates and some videos as things progress into next week!
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      01-18-2016, 11:34 PM   #72
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Wow, the cost of all this has made me dizzy. Good grief.

Wait, in that last picture you say new "old" rod bearings. Are you saying you had the bearings replaced, which then led to the cause of your motor destruction? If so, this has always been something I've been PARANOID about. As in, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Is this what happened?

Sorry to see all of this happening btw, ugh.
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      01-19-2016, 12:15 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Wow, the cost of all this has made me dizzy. Good grief.

Wait, in that last picture you say new "old" rod bearings. Are you saying you had the bearings replaced, which then led to the cause of your motor destruction? If so, this has always been something I've been PARANOID about. As in, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Is this what happened?

Sorry to see all of this happening btw, ugh.
Thanks Nicky, it's been a rough trek, especially with unemployment and this being my only vehicle.

The bearings were what I had replaced by another shop yes, but they left a bolt loose in the engine bay. It rattled loose after a couple thousand miles and caused the failure.

Those are the bearings that the other shop put in (WPC Treated OEM Bearings) that were already showing signs of wear, the other shop simply didn't do a good job all around, I was very disappointed. From oil analysis it was clear that my other ones were about to go given what I've read from what other folks here had experienced. I figured it was time to change them and I went to a shop to have it done, knowing I was able to do it myself I figured they ought to be able to complete the job as well. They did not have the required attention to detail and overall just failed to do any of it right.
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      01-19-2016, 01:47 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsonism View Post
Thanks Nicky, it's been a rough trek, especially with unemployment and this being my only vehicle.

The bearings were what I had replaced by another shop yes, but they left a bolt loose in the engine bay. It rattled loose after a couple thousand miles and caused the failure.

Those are the bearings that the other shop put in (WPC Treated OEM Bearings) that were already showing signs of wear, the other shop simply didn't do a good job all around, I was very disappointed. From oil analysis it was clear that my other ones were about to go given what I've read from what other folks here had experienced. I figured it was time to change them and I went to a shop to have it done, knowing I was able to do it myself I figured they ought to be able to complete the job as well. They did not have the required attention to detail and overall just failed to do any of it right.
Good grief, what a horror story. You did everything intelligently by doing required maintenance, and these idiots screwed it all up for you regardless. Incredible, I'm so sorry to hear about this. Nightmare, best of luck going forward. Especially on the job front, it's tough out there.
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      01-19-2016, 06:34 PM   #75
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New Clutch Assembly, as promised I will write a full review on this Kevlar sprung clutch. Should be interesting! (Yes that's also a light weight dual mass flywheel).
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      01-19-2016, 06:49 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsonism
New Clutch Assembly, as promised I will write a full review on this Kevlar sprung clutch. Should be interesting! (Yes that's also a light weight dual mass flywheel).
Looks like a single mass flywheel.

Interested in how you like it!
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      01-19-2016, 09:06 PM   #77
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You are correct sir, I got too excited posting this. I ordered it before Christmas!
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      01-23-2016, 01:00 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsonism View Post
The bearings were what I had replaced by another shop yes, but they left a bolt loose in the engine bay. It rattled loose after a couple thousand miles and caused the failure.
Do you know what bolt was loose? Did your shop find it in the old block? You need to go into some more details I'm sure a lot us would like to know!
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      01-24-2016, 01:17 PM   #79
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the heads are really nice on the s54.
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      01-25-2016, 05:09 PM   #80
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Completion time was supposed to be this Friday, however it has been bumped to next Friday. It's getting exciting, but stressful being without the car another week and I'm not sure how to pressure the shop, or if I should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bignosejim View Post
Do you know what bolt was loose? Did your shop find it in the old block? You need to go into some more details I'm sure a lot us would like to know!
Unfortunately I do not, I assumed it was a connecting rod, but I asked when I was speaking with him today since he's torn all of that part down and rebuilt it, but we can't find a connection to something that's missing. We presume that they actually just left a bolt or debris in the engine itself (which wouldn't surprise me with how messy the other shop is).

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Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
the heads are really nice on the s54.
They are! I will have some photos of the head assembled on Wednesday (Fingers Crossed)


Here are some more update photos.











Some shots of the old Vanos with some junk in it



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      01-26-2016, 10:04 AM   #81
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A messy shop says it all.

The workspace needs to be immaculate, like the tech is prepping for surgery. A single hair or towel fiber can cause clearance issues with the bearings. Paper towels shouldn't be anywhere near the engine when it's taken apart.
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      01-26-2016, 12:24 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
A messy shop says it all.

The workspace needs to be immaculate, like the tech is prepping for surgery. A single hair or towel fiber can cause clearance issues with the bearings. Paper towels shouldn't be anywhere near the engine when it's taken apart.
I couldn't agree more, I've learned first hand how important that is. If you look back to the first photos, that original shop, is a catastrophe. I don't know how I hadn't realized that before, but it truly should have given me all the answers I needed about their work the second I walked in.

I've learned my lesson, very much the hard way.
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      01-26-2016, 01:22 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsonism
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
A messy shop says it all.

The workspace needs to be immaculate, like the tech is prepping for surgery. A single hair or towel fiber can cause clearance issues with the bearings. Paper towels shouldn't be anywhere near the engine when it's taken apart.
I couldn't agree more, I've learned first hand how important that is. If you look back to the first photos, that original shop, is a catastrophe. I don't know how I hadn't realized that before, but it truly should have given me all the answers I needed about their work the second I walked in.

I've learned my lesson, very much the hard way.
That's very unfortunate.
However, for many of us following along with this saga, we've learned as well. I know it's little consolation, but the community will benefit from learning this lesson as well. We're all going to end up doing bearings at sometime or another because they're basically wear items.
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      01-27-2016, 12:09 AM   #84
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Nods ^^

spot on, the shop carrying out the rebuild looks spik and span though mate. very clean indeed.

That block with the new cylinders in place looks soooooo nice
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      01-27-2016, 01:03 AM   #85
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damn the components of the s54 still look impressive today, those pistons look like their coated with something special!.... was really interested to see ferrari had gone back to a mechanical valve train setup like the s54, after producing many engines that rev to the moons and back, i wonder why they choose this approach on the new f12 TDF....

Either way says alot about where the s54 was in terms of the design of the motor. Still imo one of the best engines produced for a road car.
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      01-27-2016, 04:13 PM   #86
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Arsonism thanks for keeping us all informed, much appreciated.
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      01-27-2016, 04:48 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanne View Post
Nods ^^

spot on, the shop carrying out the rebuild looks spik and span though mate. very clean indeed.

That block with the new cylinders in place looks soooooo nice
I should take a shot of the whole shop, It's crazy clean.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
damn the components of the s54 still look impressive today, those pistons look like their coated with something special!... Still imo one of the best engines produced for a road car.
I couldn't agree more, and they are! These pistons have a silicon compound coating (if I recall correctly), that's OEM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Arsonism thanks for keeping us all informed, much appreciated.
Always, the very last thing I would ever want to stem from this is someone else having to go through anything remotely close to it. It's been a heartbreak and I'm luckier than hell not only to own this car, but to be able to bring it back to life.
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      01-28-2016, 12:30 PM   #88
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I feel like I should change the name of this thread now... as it has become a journal.

They got the head on there yesterday, stock cams and no real changes here, just progress... and clean parts
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