Should I upgrade from 3.0i to M?

[Shigg614]

Great question! I had the same predicament just last week (From a 3.0 to an M) and made the plunge.

Like many of the previous members have noted, the decision is based on your plans for the car. The value of your car, the increase in aftermarket support, the relative power increase in the 4k+ range was enough for me to make the upgrade.

Now for my opinion. The M gives me a sense of joy that the 3.0 did not. The major things include the tighter suspension that allows me to hit curves on back country roads harder and with more confidence. The roar of the S54 (with proper back boxes) make straight-aways tempting. The slight body modifications included in the M pacakge make me look back at my car and smile every time I get out. Even the minor things like the thicker wheel makes this car just FEEL down-right SOLID.

If you have any specific questions, please feel free dm me as I'd glad to provide more input (ie. maintenance costs, etc.)

[proboner]

I guess another question I have, is would you all buy an M with 80k miles that hasn't had rod bearings replaced or any VANOS maintenance at all? If so, would you be asking for price reduction?

[pyshin]

Originally Posted by proboner

I guess another question I have, is would you all buy an M with 80k miles that hasn't had rod bearings replaced or any VANOS maintenance at all? If so, would you be asking for price reduction?

What is the asking price?
Is it private party or dealer?
Does it have a clean title?
What states has it been owned in?
What is the condition of the exterior/interior/undercarriage?
Do they have any other maintenance records (ie. Inspection I/II, oil analyses, etc.)?
Does it have aftermarket parts? If so are they including the stock parts?
Just a few questions to start

[Shigg614]

Originally Posted by proboner

I guess another question I have, is would you all buy an M with 80k miles that hasn't had rod bearings replaced or any VANOS maintenance at all? If so, would you be asking for price reduction?

After taking the time to consider the market value of the vehicle and look up local costs to replace the rod bearings (and a possible valve adjustment if vehicle history is uknown), I personally would take the car under 16k out the door.

At 85k, she's still young. These cars, as many other members have noted, run 150k+ without any major issues.

[Alaberti]

Originally Posted by proboner

I guess another question I have, is would you all buy an M with 80k miles that hasn't had rod bearings replaced or any VANOS maintenance at all? If so, would you be asking for price reduction?

It wouldn't (and didn't) affect my decision. Care and feeding for these kinds of cars is just part of ownership experience. I would also set money aside to refresh bushings, engine/trans mounts, fluids, and brakes, unless I had service history on hand showing those items had been completed.

By the way, what does your usual driving look like? Are you an active driver, already taking the long way to your destination, and are regularly on the hunt for fun backroads? If so, this car is an absolute no brainer - the sounds it makes from 4K to 8K are unbelievable - and highly addictive. You have been warned!

BUT! If the daily drive is full of long commutes, stop and go traffic, or - worse - long straights with a rare few bends, kinks, or corners in it? My concern becomes that the M wouldn't feel different enough from your 3.0i; you've already expressed that you're not impressed below 4K which is where you'd be all the time in that kind of driving. I would then recommend it as a weekend toy instead for active driving needs.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by proboner

I guess another question I have, is would you all buy an M with 80k miles that hasn't had rod bearings replaced or any VANOS maintenance at all? If so, would you be asking for price reduction?

At that mileage, I would do rod bearings and VANOS maintenance and factor that into your fair market price for the condition of the car. Too many factors to consider as "pyshin" had indicated. The fair price is whatever you think it's worth.

Originally Posted by Shigg614

At 85k, she's still young. These cars, as many other members have noted, run 150k+ without any major issues.

No way to say for sure - the weak point in these cars are rod bearings and VANOS. Some bearings started to look pretty bad at around 50K and some goes to 100K. The collective wisdom is that the S54 bearings in the Z4 seems to wear faster than those in the out-going M3. Agreed that these will run past 150K+ if they're properly taken care of.

[proboner]

Originally Posted by pyshin

What is the asking price?
Is it private party or dealer?
Does it have a clean title?
What states has it been owned in?
What is the condition of the exterior/interior/undercarriage?
Do they have any other maintenance records (ie. Inspection I/II, oil analyses, etc.)?
Does it have aftermarket parts? If so are they including the stock parts?
Just a few questions to start

As mentioned in my original post, I found the PERFECT example (Black exterior, red interior, carbon trim) which is what piqued my interest in the first place. Enthusiast owned and obsessed over, guy had a 2" thick pile of receipts and obviously took extremely good care of the car. Unfortunately I wasn't quite convinced of the idea yet and it sold to another party a few days later.

Realizing my mistake, I told myself I wouldn't consider another z4m unless another black exterior with red interior example popped up, and sure enough this one did. Pretty different situation though. Coming from a dealer asking $21k. Paint is in good condition but has a few rock chips on the front end and a bit of scuffing on the front lip, 8/10. Interior is clean but the windows rattle when you close the door, and the piece above the middle storage compartment is loose and possibly broken, 8/10. It's a CA car from the Bay Area, but it came as a trade-in with no maintenance history, which definitely erks me. Only history they have is what they can see on Carfax. Car is fully stock except for painted wheels.

When I went to test drive it last weekend the first thing I brought up was rod bearings and vanos, and the salesman indicated he had no record of either being replace/maintained, but then went on about how it's not an issue blah blah. He was actually quite knowledgeable of S54s and seemed to specialize in selling e46 M3s and I hadn't done much research into it at the time, so I just dropped it.

I've since done my research and it sounds like they're both definitely still issues I should be concerned about. I messaged them back going into details of why it was a concern and said I'd consider at $18k, but they're unwilling to move on the price and suggested that if I'm worried I should buy a warranty... Riiiiiiight.

Anyways, at this point it's highly unlikely I'm buying this actual car, but I do question when/if I'll run into this combination again, and if I should be taking the VANOS and rod bearing issue as seriously as I am.

[pyshin]

Originally Posted by proboner

As mentioned in my original post, I found the PERFECT example (Black exterior, red interior, carbon trim) which is what piqued my interest in the first place. Enthusiast owned and obsessed over, guy had a 2" thick pile of receipts and obviously took extremely good care of the car. Unfortunately I wasn't quite convinced of the idea yet and it sold to another party a few days later.

Realizing my mistake, I told myself I wouldn't consider another z4m unless another black exterior with red interior example popped up, and sure enough this one did. Pretty different situation though. Coming from a dealer asking $21k. Paint is in good condition but has a few rock chips on the front end and a bit of scuffing on the front lip, 8/10. Interior is clean but the windows rattle when you close the door, and the piece above the middle storage compartment is loose and possibly broken, 8/10. It's a CA car from the Bay Area, but it came as a trade-in with no maintenance history, which definitely erks me. Only history they have is what they can see on Carfax. Car is fully stock except for painted wheels.

When I went to test drive it last weekend the first thing I brought up was rod bearings and vanos, and the salesman indicated he had no record of either being replace/maintained, but then went on about how it's not an issue blah blah. He was actually quite knowledgeable of S54s and seemed to specialize in selling e46 M3s and I hadn't done much research into it at the time, so I just dropped it.

I've since done my research and it sounds like they're both definitely still issues I should be concerned about. I messaged them back going into details of why it was a concern and said I'd consider at $18k, but they're unwilling to move on the price and suggested that if I'm worried I should buy a warranty... Riiiiiiight.

Anyways, at this point it's highly unlikely I'm buying this actual car, but I do question when/if I'll run into this combination again, and if I should be taking the VANOS and rod bearing issue as seriously as I am.

I know the feeling of losing an opportunity to buy a Z4M (happened to me twice before I purchased mine the morning it was posted online)

I actually bought mine from a large dealer who got it as a trade-in from a long-time customer; they worked with me and actually did alot of recon work before I picked it up at no cost to me.

If he was knowledgeable of S54s then he was just being a salesman and lying to you about VANOS/rod bearings not being an issue and pushing a warranty. Also not budging on the price and not working with you at all are both bad signs anyways

If you want a specific exteror/interior color combo, all you can do is be patient. Search daily and stay on top of it; VANOS and rod bearings are definitely a serious thing to consider, each is easily a couple grand of labor/parts and are crucial for keeping an S54 healthy.

Best of luck

[Gamb1t]

Sxx engines are not cheap to maintain. You get what you pay for applies. If it's cheap, it's cheap for a reason. Can you DIY, that would save you a bunch of coins.

With a non-M, I'd drive it anywhere and don't really have to worry to much about it. That said, Z4Ms are good value. Their current used prices are low enough for the tech you get. A pristine one will keep its value and even rise over time. Not sure it'll be Clownshoe status....

[Emmrbee]

Last year I made the choice to upgrade from a 2006 3.0si manual to a low mileage 2006 M roadster. I owned the si for 6 years before buying the M and then drove the 2 cars for a 1 month overlap before selling the si. I am not a track guy but consider myself a somewhat law abiding spirited driver. I have always maintained my cars and motorcycles in original configuration with zero modifications.

The si is a pleasant car to drive with good handling characteristics. Very supple.
I swapped out the run-flats the first year for some better high performance tires and replaced the front control arm bushings.
I learned what the word tramlining meant from the electric steering system on the si. I never had any problems with the car during the 6 years of ownership other that the roof motor and regular maintenance. All in all, a nice car.

The M is something altogether different
Great steering, brakes and that awesome S54 engine. There's nothing like dropping the shifter from 6th to 3rd and launching. We did the entire Blue Ridge Parkway and US129 last fall and every day the M was a delight to drive. The more twisty the better. As well all that power was nice to have heading north on the US81. Time to pass another 18 wheeler, down shift and watch them disappear. Best way for me to describe the M, a real beast!

To sum it up, I'm very happy with my decision

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by wdb

I had a 3.0si and an M at the same time. I enjoyed them both very much. I did finally sell the 3.0si but I honestly still miss it.

For a daily driver I'd keep the 3.0i. Upgrade it to a 3.0si with 3 stage intake manifold + associated changes to the tune; this is very popular, well documented, and won't affect reliability. It *will* give you 50 extra horsepower. And consider a limited slip differential too. That's what I would have done with my 3.0si if I had kept it.

The '03 E85 roadster came with the M54B30. I think you are thinking of the N52 3IM modification, which is possible on the 2006 roadster with the 215 HP N52. The M54 already has a DISA intake.

I agree with you though, the OP should keep his current Z4 if he mostly dailys it.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The '03 E85 roadster came with the M54B30. I think you are thinking of the N52 3IM modification, which is possible on the 2006 roadster with the 215 HP N52. The M54 already has a DISA intake.

I agree with you though, the OP should keep his current Z4 if he mostly dailys it.

Yeah I got schooled on that. Doh!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by wdb

Yeah I got schooled on that. Doh!

Nah, the transition between the M54 and the N52 gets confusing in the 2005 - 2007 time frame. The 1st gen X3 is the same way.

No schooling intended; just wanted to make sure the OP didn't think he could drop another 30 HP on the M54 with an intake change. I now have to say after having an M54 since September last year when I acquired a 2005 E46 330cic, I kind of like the M54 too. The M20 in the E30 and E28 (mid-1980's 5 series) is my favorite BMW 6, but the M54 in the E85 I'd bet is a nice fit.

[Lucky1]

Ray, when someone asks you if they should upgrade to an ///M you say YES!!!

[W///]

A nice condition Z4M Roadster with a bit higher mileage can be had for under $20k all day, but probably with not much service records. Mine was definitely this case, and it'll need a full overhaul this winter. Still though, at this price, I can't think of what else I'd rather want. I personally think the car is plenty fast and never found the acceleration lackluster. I think the car wouldn't be far off from keeping up with my E92 M3 with stage 2 tune.