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      04-16-2019, 12:09 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Oh crap. He's renamed himself. I wondered who this was on my ignore list.

.
Translation: I can't seem to win an argument.
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      04-16-2019, 12:11 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
That. Or they follow a basic circle of logic.

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      04-16-2019, 12:13 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
That. Or they follow a basic circle of logic.

Hilarious. We're closer to that than I'd like to think.
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      04-16-2019, 12:33 PM   #48
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Is it just blacks or does Lieu hate Jews as well?
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      04-16-2019, 12:50 PM   #49
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Still haven't watched the video, but I did dig up a transcript of the exchange between Owens and Lieu.

The pulling of the race card ("Lieu thinks black folks are too stupid to...") by Owens was cheap and stupid and something I thought conservatives would be against in principle.
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      04-16-2019, 02:09 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Is it just blacks or does Lieu hate Jews as well?
Would genuinely love to see some solid evidence that demonstrates that Lieu is racist towards Blacks and Jews.
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      04-16-2019, 02:36 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Still haven't watched the video, but I did dig up a transcript of the exchange between Owens and Lieu.

The pulling of the race card ("Lieu thinks black folks are too stupid to...") by Owens was cheap and stupid and something I thought conservatives would be against in principle.
fair point.
but i wonder was this transcript clear that the audio clip Lieu played was a fragment of a much longer exchange, and was in fact an answer to a question? if the transcript didn't show Owens' entire answer, and didn't include the question or the context of the exchange, how would you judge whether it was fair or not? were you able to tell that Lieu timed the audio to match the expiration of his question period so that Owens could not respond? did you think it odd that Nadler didn't allow Owens to respond on Committee time which is the tradition for both sides? the video in this thread is Owens finally responding after a Republican questioner gave up his time so that she could. can you agree that that may explain Owens' obvious irritation with Lieu?
also: so "pulling the race card" is only "cheap and stupid" when Conservatives do it? (thats just hypothetical since that's not what she was doing).
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      04-16-2019, 02:50 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
fair point.
Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
but i wonder was this transcript clear that the audio clip Lieu played was a fragment of a much longer exchange, and was in fact an answer to a question?
Yes, it did.

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Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
if the transcript didn't show Owens' entire answer, and didn't include the question or the context of the exchange, how would you judge whether it was fair or not?
Whether Lieu was doing Owens dirty with his intentionally abbreviated sound bite is irrelevant when it comes to the question of whether her response was bullshit or not. Hint: it was, Lieu misbehaving doesn't change that one iota.

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Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
were you able to tell that Lieu timed the audio to match the expiration of his question period so that Owens could not respond?
No, transcripts don't traditionally include that sort of information, in my experience. It doesn't matter, however. See above.

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Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
did you think it odd that Nadler didn't allow Owens to respond on Committee time which is the tradition for both sides? the video in this thread is Owens finally responding after a Republican questioner gave up his time so that she could.
Political theatre is unsurprising to me. Yes, the transcript included Owens response about how she was simply attempting to separate "nationalism" from NAZIs. It was still a very poorly selected original response, IMO. A much simpler, and smarter, response could have simply been a paraphrase of what she ended up explaining - "No, Hitler was a maniac and a murderer, not a nationalist in the strict definition."

I would expect someone who work in communications as a profession to be better than that, honestly.

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Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
can you agree that that may explain Owens' obvious irritation with Lieu?
Sure. Again, it doesn't make pulling the race card OK.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
also: so "pulling the race card" is only "cheap and stupid" when Conservatives do it? (thats just hypothetical since that's not what she was doing).
Nope, it's cheap and stupid when anyone does it. I don't believe you'll ever find a post of mine defending it. I am much more surprised when conservatives fall prey to it, however, given how regularly they rage against it.

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      04-18-2019, 01:30 PM   #53
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I think she's cute when she's angry. And also when she is not.

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      04-18-2019, 02:34 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I think she's cute when she's angry. And also when she is not.

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Yup, she's black, conservative and hawt.

That alone triggers libs to no end.

She's the gift that keeps on giving...
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      04-18-2019, 03:33 PM   #55
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Even if she pulled the race card as contended, doesn't bother me in this case? She is a black woman whose message is mostly that black people shouldn't blindly believe all that is spit out by some of the media and politicians. So if Lieu played a misleading clip of what she said isn't he assuming her target audience is naive?
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      04-18-2019, 03:39 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
So if Lieu played a misleading clip of what she said isn't he assuming her target audience is naive?
Of course he is and got called out for it.

What a weak milquetoast if there ever was one.
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      04-18-2019, 04:29 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Of course he is and got called out for it.

What a weak milquetoast if there ever was one.
So if we're correct, she didn't even pull the race card in this case. Lieu pulled a tacky stunt tho.
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      04-19-2019, 05:28 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Even if she pulled the race card as contended, doesn't bother me in this case? She is a black woman whose message is mostly that black people shouldn't blindly believe all that is spit out by some of the media and politicians. So if Lieu played a misleading clip of what she said isn't he assuming her target audience is naive?
So playing the race card is OK with you if the messenger black and the "message" is one that you agree with?

OK......

She absolutely played the race card, BTW. The fact that you're attempting to dance around that is undermining your position.
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      04-19-2019, 05:28 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
So if we're correct, she didn't even pull the race card in this case.
Incorrect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Lieu pulled a tacky stunt tho.
Correct.
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      04-19-2019, 11:38 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
So playing the race card is OK with you if the messenger black and the "message" is one that you agree with?

OK......

She absolutely played the race card, BTW. The fact that you're attempting to dance around that is undermining your position.
Whether I agree with the message or not is irrelevant. Lieu played a game which sure seems like he counted on the audience to not look beyond his 'selected' clip.

If someone hurls a racial epithet at a black person and is called out, is that pulling the race card?

Your dancing around is undermining your position. (see others can be pompous also)
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      04-19-2019, 03:25 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Even if she pulled the race card as contended, doesn't bother me in this case? She is a black woman whose message is mostly that black people shouldn't blindly believe all that is spit out by some of the media and politicians. So if Lieu played a misleading clip of what she said isn't he assuming her target audience is naive?
How are you defining her target audience, and who exactly are they? Target audience in favor of her, or against her?
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      04-19-2019, 03:48 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingwan View Post
How are you defining her target audience, and who exactly are they? Target audience in favor of her, or against her?
Probably neither. I can't read her mind, but, she seems to be saying to African-Americans to not be pulled in by the traditional line that only the Democrats are looking out for you. And don't look at racism as the cause of your problems. Has she completely dismissed racism as existing - I don't know and that would be incorrect. But she is among a group of blacks that tout the message that racism isn't the first and foremost cause of issues. Way back it was Thomas Sowell.
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      04-19-2019, 05:46 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Whether I agree with the message or not is irrelevant. Lieu played a game which sure seems like he counted on the audience to not look beyond his 'selected' clip.

If someone hurls a racial epithet at a black person and is called out, is that pulling the race card?

Your dancing around is undermining your position. (see others can be pompous also)
The difference is I'm not dancing.

Who is "the audience" in this scenario? This took place in a House Judiciary Committee hearing, right?
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      04-19-2019, 06:17 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
The difference is I'm not dancing.

Who is "the audience" in this scenario? This took place in a House Judiciary Committee hearing, right?
See directly above.
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      04-19-2019, 08:12 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
I think she's cute when she's angry. And also when she is not.

Cheers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Yup, she's black, conservative and hawt.

That alone triggers libs to no end.

She's the gift that keeps on giving...
For sure. I was going to apply for a job at Turning Point USA, then I heard she got engaged.
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      04-19-2019, 11:03 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Maybe b/c a 'tactful' editing job assumes the viewer is not too bright or diligent -> she is black ->her position is contrary to the Dems policies toward blacks ->her ideas are directed toward blacks ->
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
Probably neither. I can't read her mind, but, she seems to be saying to African-Americans to not be pulled in by the traditional line that only the Democrats are looking out for you. And don't look at racism as the cause of your problems. Has she completely dismissed racism as existing - I don't know and that would be incorrect. But she is among a group of blacks that tout the message that racism isn't the first and foremost cause of issues. Way back it was Thomas Sowell.
The clip Lieu took from Candace’s statement was taken from an answer given by her at the British Launch of the Turning Point.

Question asked:

“In the current age, I feel like the political debate stems around nationalism and globalism which, however they are weaponized within the media especially in Europe, and like in America..these movements are being energized, so you feel the momentum will last in regards to the EU? Gina Hofstadt(?) referred to the base of the movement as the summer of populism in quotation marks, but two years down the line these governments are realizing there’s a clear trajectory against the status quo, how do you feel the long term prognosis is for these movements?

Answer given by Candace Owens:

“I actually don't have any problems at all with the word "nationalism". I think that the definition gets poisoned by elitists that actually want globalism. Globalism is what I don't want. ... Whenever we say "nationalism", the first thing people think about, at least in America, is Hitler. You know, he was a national socialist, but if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine. The problem is that he wanted—he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalize. He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German. Everybody to look a different way. That's not, to me, that's not nationalism..”

The topics covered in that entire presentation were all-encompassing; topics such as climate change, economy, globalism vs nationalism, etc were covered. It was not a presentation designed specifically for an African-American audience. There was actually only a small portion of the presentation where Candace specifically talks about the black community in America, but you look at the question that was asked about globalism vs nationalism, and the answer that was given, how does taking a soundbite from that statement whilst taking into consideration the question that was asked as well as the audience in that room translate into Ted Lieu trying to pull a fast one on blacks because he thinks they’re dumb?

It was a poor assumption on Candace’s part, especially when you consider Lieu’s statement before playing the soundbite:

“Of all the people that Republicans could have selected, they picked Candace Owens. I don’t know Ms. Owens, I’m not going to characterize her. I’m going to let her own words do the talking.”

Seems more like an attempt to smear Candace’s imagine while simultaneously attempting to undermine the Republican Party.

I think it was a very poor move on Lieu’s part. But I also think Owens put herself in the fire when she was unable to articulate an answer that straddled more carefully around such a sensitive subject (which she evidently brought up herself. The guy never specifically asked about Hitler....).

It’s just funny seeing Lieu trying to pull a fast one and suddenly he’s a racist mental midget. It’s unfortunate that the identity of outrage culture has been pawned off to the left, but in reality, it doesn’t discriminate between left and right. Its a diseased behavioral pattern. Dude went to Stanford and Georgetown, and is a Colonel in the USAF, and I’ve personally never met a racist high ranking officer while serving. They can’t afford to be....

Last edited by Mingwan; 04-19-2019 at 11:16 PM..
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