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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 81 31.76%
Trump Trump-umphant. 88 34.51%
Inclusive 18 7.06%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 74 29.02%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.92%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll

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      01-21-2020, 05:28 PM   #5809
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I think they're going to need a forensics team to examine the fragments to determine they are indeed Adam Schiff.
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      01-21-2020, 05:40 PM   #5810
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So the House managers say there are tons of evidence that say Trump is overwhelming guilty.

1. But they don't have that evidence yet.

2. Obstruction of Congress is not an impeachable offense. Its not a High Crime. But the Dems did not follow through on 3 invalad subpoenas let alone present them to the courts.

3. Abuse of power is not a 'High Crime"

4. They have not presented their case as yet.

Its obvious they are and will be out lawyered. I don't think they can name more Managers or lawyers. I could be wrong.

I still don't get how you can Impeach with no High Crimes..Bribery and Treason

"High crimes and misdemeanors" is a phrase from Section 4 of Article Two of the United States Constitution: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

Notice a High crime must be present to even "Impeach"..so it was illegal to even impeach him.

Can one Dem answer why they did not draft an impeachable article.???

Last edited by adc100; 01-21-2020 at 05:46 PM..
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      01-21-2020, 05:47 PM   #5811
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Does anybody else find it just a little ironic that part of the Dems beef with this thing is that Trump is accused of withholding a meeting that would be good for Ze's political wellbeing, and would make him appear stronger to his people in relation to his political rivals?

What is the over/under on "nobody, not even the president, is above the law"? Hypocrites...
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      01-21-2020, 05:49 PM   #5812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
wait a minute - you are now stating you were asking gonzo for clarification? not me??

you make Adam Schiff proud.
Correct.

I asked for clarification, and you immediately jumped in with "Trump's been dealing with that since day 1" and "turnabout is fair play".



The discussion basically went like this (paraphrasing):

Me: Wow, that sounds pretty Stalin-esque, is that what you really meant?

You: Why not, Trump's had to deal with it. Turn about is fair play.

Me: We'll agree to disagree. It's wrong, period.

You: It's never wrong, that's how you combat bullies and intimidation.


How is that NOT reasonably interpreted as a defense of "Get him on the stand and then we'll see if he should be on the stand", which itself is unarguably Stalin-esque in its intent?

"Me: Wow, that sounds pretty Stalin-esque, is that what you really meant?"

^

That right there is complete and utter bullshit. You are really taking things out of context with your "paraphrasing." In fact, to say it is taken out of context is extremely kind.
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      01-21-2020, 07:11 PM   #5813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Many of the Republicans want to question Hunter Biden. Do you think they have zero reason or business talking to him during the proceedings?
As in, there is nothing he may know that is of any concern to them. How do you know all of this? Please elaborate.

That's what you are projecting and all I said was to call him to testify if he may be of use to the defense. This is USUALLY how a trial performs.

You took that and did a magnificent job of blowing it completely out of proportion because you insist he should not appear. Again, why not?
Yes, I am saying Hunter Biden has absolutely zero relevant information on the charges against Trump. I've asked you before, what could he possibly say that would have bearing on the charges Trump faces?

No, a trial USUALLY performs in that witnesses need to be demonstrated as relevant to the case in order to be called to the stand. Any of our resident lawyers can correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, you saying "put him on the stand and then we'll find out if he should be there" is shades of gray off from saying "well, arrest him and we'll figure out what he did wrong later". Which, as I said, is the equivalent to Beria's infamous quote.
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      01-21-2020, 07:14 PM   #5814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
"Me: Wow, that sounds pretty Stalin-esque, is that what you really meant?"

^

That right there is complete and utter bullshit. You are really taking things out of context with your "paraphrasing." In fact, to say it is taken out of context is extremely kind.
Are you drunk right now?

My paraphrase:

"Me: Wow, that sounds pretty Stalin-esque, is that what you really meant?"

My exact quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
That sounds an awful lot like "show me the man, I'll show you the crime". You're not actually advocating for that position, are you, gonzo?

Where is my paraphrase substantively different from my exact words in my post?

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      01-21-2020, 07:34 PM   #5815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Yes, I am saying Hunter Biden has absolutely zero relevant information on the charges against Trump. I've asked you before, what could he possibly say that would have bearing on the charges Trump faces?

No, a trial USUALLY performs in that witnesses need to be demonstrated as relevant to the case in order to be called to the stand. Any of our resident lawyers can correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, you saying "put him on the stand and then we'll find out if he should be there" is shades of gray off from saying "well, arrest him and we'll figure out what he did wrong later". Which, as I said, is the equivalent to Beria's infamous quote.
You don't know this, definitively. You can speculate but you don't know. It works when you flip it to those that think he may.
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      01-21-2020, 08:05 PM   #5816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD
Yes, I am saying Hunter Biden has absolutely zero relevant information on the charges against Trump. I've asked you before, what could he possibly say that would have bearing on the charges Trump faces?

No, a trial USUALLY performs in that witnesses need to be demonstrated as relevant to the case in order to be called to the stand. Any of our resident lawyers can correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, you saying "put him on the stand and then we'll find out if he should be there" is shades of gray off from saying "well, arrest him and we'll figure out what he did wrong later". Which, as I said, is the equivalent to Beria's infamous quote.
You don't know this, definitively. You can speculate but you don't know. It works when you flip it to those that think he may.
I'm missing something here. All I see is "put Hunter on the stand and let's see what happens" as a form of pressure on candidate Joe. Where is the bit that justifies doing so? I mean, Rudy keeps saying stuff, but I haven't seen or heard a peep from him other than TV fodder. What am I missing.
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      01-21-2020, 08:22 PM   #5817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
You don't know this, definitively. You can speculate but you don't know. It works when you flip it to those that think he may.


we have to question the Biden before we know what's in the Biden
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      01-21-2020, 08:50 PM   #5818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
.
That's akin to
i just want to take this opportunity to thank MK for not retaliating with Ham 'n Limas.
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      01-21-2020, 09:22 PM   #5819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
.
That's akin to
i just want to take this opportunity to thank MK for not retaliating with Ham 'n Limas.
Jalapeño in a can
Gumbo in a can

NEITHER is appropriate
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      01-21-2020, 09:23 PM   #5820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Jalapeņo in a can
Gumbo in a can

NEITHER is appropriate
But these are real things.
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      01-21-2020, 09:24 PM   #5821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
.
That's akin to
i just want to take this opportunity to thank MK for not retaliating with Ham 'n Limas.
Jalapeño in a can
Gumbo in a can

NEITHER is appropriate
but i would gladly trade you four Ham n Limas for one Gumbo
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      01-21-2020, 09:25 PM   #5822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
but i would gladly trade you four Ham n Limas for one Gumbo
Chunky makes a great one!!
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      01-21-2020, 09:29 PM   #5823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
.
That's akin to
i just want to take this opportunity to thank MK for not retaliating with Ham 'n Limas.
Jalapeño in a can
Gumbo in a can

NEITHER is appropriate
but i would gladly trade you four Ham n Limas for one Gumbo
I ODd on fresh Lima's once. Not sure I can ever eat again
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      01-21-2020, 10:08 PM   #5824
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      01-22-2020, 05:24 AM   #5825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post



"High crimes and misdemeanors" is a phrase from Section 4 of Article Two of the United States Constitution:
It's also a phrase, or more specifically a question from VP Warner, played by Beau Bridges.
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      01-22-2020, 06:48 AM   #5826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
You don't know this, definitively. You can speculate but you don't know. It works when you flip it to those that think he may.
Yes, I do know that, and so do you if you take your partisan glasses off.

The charges against Trump are Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress.

Does Hunter work for the Trump Administration? No. Does Hunter work in the White House? No. Does Hunter work for OMB? No. Does Hunter work anywhere in the chain of disbursement of government funds? No. Was Hunter on any calls between Trump and Zelensky? No. Was Hunter ever an ambassador to Ukraine or was he involved in any diplomatic efforts between the Trump Administration and Ukraine? No.

I've asked it multiple times, I'll ask it YET AGAIN: What could Hunter possibly say that has relevance to the charges against Trump?
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      01-22-2020, 07:03 AM   #5827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
So the House managers say there are tons of evidence that say Trump is overwhelming guilty.

1. But they don't have that evidence yet.

2. Obstruction of Congress is not an impeachable offense. Its not a High Crime. But the Dems did not follow through on 3 invalad subpoenas let alone present them to the courts.

3. Abuse of power is not a 'High Crime"

4. They have not presented their case as yet.

Its obvious they are and will be out lawyered. I don't think they can name more Managers or lawyers. I could be wrong.

I still don't get how you can Impeach with no High Crimes..Bribery and Treason

"High crimes and misdemeanors" is a phrase from Section 4 of Article Two of the United States Constitution: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

Notice a High crime must be present to even "Impeach"..so it was illegal to even impeach him.

Can one Dem answer why they did not draft an impeachable article.???
I'm not a Dem, but a 30 second Google turned up this:


...I have carefully researched the origin of the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors" and its meaning to the Framers, and found that the key to understanding it is the word "high". It does not mean "more serious". It refers to those punishable offenses that only apply to high persons, that is, to public officials, those who, because of their official status, are under special obligations that ordinary persons are not under, and which could not be meaningfully applied or justly punished if committed by ordinary persons.

Under the English common law tradition, crimes were defined through a legacy of court proceedings and decisions that punished offenses not because they were prohibited by statutes, but because they offended the sense of justice of the people and the court. Whether an offense could qualify as punishable depended largely on the obligations of the offender, and the obligations of a person holding a high position meant that some actions, or inactions, could be punishable if he did them, even though they would not be if done by an ordinary person
....

https://www.constitution.org/cmt/high_crimes.htm

There are tons of other articles that discuss the phrase, and even Lindsey Graham and Alan Dershowitz both said that no crime was necessary for impeachment back in 1998. Funny that they are singing a different tune today.

Alexander Hamilton addressed abuse of power with regards to impeachment specifically in Federalist Paper #65:

...The subjects of its (impeachment's) jurisdiction are those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself...

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed65.asp

Amazing what 5 minutes of research can turn up if one is honestly curious.

I'm sure another 5 minutes would turn up interpretations taking the opposite position, as well. Hamilton's words are pretty clear, however, in my opinion.
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      01-22-2020, 07:06 AM   #5828
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      01-22-2020, 08:10 AM   #5829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
"Me: Wow, that sounds pretty Stalin-esque, is that what you really meant?"

^

That right there is complete and utter bullshit. You are really taking things out of context with your "paraphrasing." In fact, to say it is taken out of context is extremely kind.
Are you drunk right now?

My paraphrase:

"Me: Wow, that sounds pretty Stalin-esque, is that what you really meant?"

My exact quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
That sounds an awful lot like "show me the man, I'll show you the crime". You're not actually advocating for that position, are you, gonzo?

Where is my paraphrase substantively different from my exact words in my post?

In your so-called paraphrase you're asking me (which never happened by the way, because you never actually asked me if that's what I meant, you just unilaterally assigned that position to me) and in the second quote you're asking gonzo. I wasn't even involved in that conversation.

You can't even keep up with who you're speaking with.

You're blatant ignorance of the truth, and continued twisting of what was actually said to present a narrative that never existed, is now just an annoyance and boring.
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      01-22-2020, 08:23 AM   #5830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Yes, I do know that, and so do you if you take your partisan glasses off.

The charges against Trump are Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress.

Does Hunter work for the Trump Administration? No. Does Hunter work in the White House? No. Does Hunter work for OMB? No. Does Hunter work anywhere in the chain of disbursement of government funds? No. Was Hunter on any calls between Trump and Zelensky? No. Was Hunter ever an ambassador to Ukraine or was he involved in any diplomatic efforts between the Trump Administration and Ukraine? No.

I've asked it multiple times, I'll ask it YET AGAIN: What could Hunter possibly say that has relevance to the charges against Trump?
As his father was the 2nd highest person in the previous administration and he has a dodgy history AND he clearly achieved whatever "success" he has through the aforementioned connection, there MAY be information he has.

Cheers, my friend. MK
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