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      12-27-2020, 01:19 PM   #1
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Thoughts On The E63 6-series

Looking for opinions and input from anyone who has owned or has had personal experience with this generation of 6. I know its very different from the Z as its a GT car but as I get older I'm craving something really high build quality and the 6 seems to fit the bill. The interior is amazing and they just feel so well put together overall. Can anyone comment on the overall feel of the car? Thanks.
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      12-28-2020, 11:22 PM   #2
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Owned 2004 645Ci for almost 10 years, and then M6 for 5 years. When they are not broken - they are amazing cars. The problem is, the are very shoddy build quality, and I had multiple problems with both E63s. 645 was worse than M6, but M6 was a LOT more to fix. Both cars spent plenty of time out of commission.
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      01-01-2021, 04:02 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Texaz3 View Post
Owned 2004 645Ci for almost 10 years, and then M6 for 5 years. When they are not broken - they are amazing cars. The problem is, the are very shoddy build quality, and I had multiple problems with both E63s. 645 was worse than M6, but M6 was a LOT more to fix. Both cars spent plenty of time out of commission.
Ah dang, not what I wanted to hear lol The 6er has always been tempting to me now as you can get a clean one over here around 10,000. It would only be a summer weekend toy for me. I just want something that feels a bit more premium than the Z. I wonder if the later 650i's had fewer issues. The M6 is another battle. The Carrera GT being my number one car, a BMW with a 500hp V10 is beyond tempting, but I have not heard many stories of people who have had one used with no real issues. Maybe if one falls into my lap, i'll take the chance. Thanks.
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      01-02-2021, 08:40 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Sterling Roadster View Post
Ah dang, not what I wanted to hear lol The 6er has always been tempting to me now as you can get a clean one over here around 10,000. It would only be a summer weekend toy for me. I just want something that feels a bit more premium than the Z. I wonder if the later 650i's had fewer issues. The M6 is another battle. The Carrera GT being my number one car, a BMW with a 500hp V10 is beyond tempting, but I have not heard many stories of people who have had one used with no real issues. Maybe if one falls into my lap, i'll take the chance. Thanks.
They are cheap cars now to buy, but they were $100k cars - and they are not cheap to fix once something breaks down. Ionics fail ($600x2), VANOS solenoids are $1k each plus labor and you need 4 to replace. TBAs are $650 each plus labor (a lot of it). Rod bearings need to be replaced at some point guaranteed - that's easily a $3.5k job. SMG can crap out to the tune of $10k - clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, slave, fork, pivot pin, throwout bearing, guide bush, clutch position sensor, new SMG pump motor, and various other small bits (about $6k in parts alone) - that is what I had to do on mine and it all requires to drop the gearbox every time. There are no shops that are competent to work on these too, at least not in my area, so it becomes just gigantic pain in the ass. And that is just known major issues. Lots of small annoying electric gremlins. I bought my M6 for $28k back in 2014, and in 5 years I had it I probably spent another $25k to keep it on the road. Just for your perspective.

Beautiful cars though, here is mine:


Last edited by Texaz3; 01-02-2021 at 08:47 AM..
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      01-02-2021, 02:26 PM   #5
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They are cheap cars now to buy, but they were $100k cars - and they are not cheap to fix once something breaks down. Ionics fail ($600x2), VANOS solenoids are $1k each plus labor and you need 4 to replace. TBAs are $650 each plus labor (a lot of it). Rod bearings need to be replaced at some point guaranteed - that's easily a $3.5k job. SMG can crap out to the tune of $10k - clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, slave, fork, pivot pin, throwout bearing, guide bush, clutch position sensor, new SMG pump motor, and various other small bits (about $6k in parts alone) - that is what I had to do on mine and it all requires to drop the gearbox every time. There are no shops that are competent to work on these too, at least not in my area, so it becomes just gigantic pain in the ass. And that is just known major issues. Lots of small annoying electric gremlins. I bought my M6 for $28k back in 2014, and in 5 years I had it I probably spent another $25k to keep it on the road. Just for your perspective.

Beautiful cars though, here is mine:

Beautiful car indeed. I suppose if they had few issues they wouldn't be priced the way they are and it wouldn't have even crossed my mind. Just such an incredible engine and the design is aging well, like most Bangle designs. If I were to consider it, seems like a 650i with good history is the only realistic option. Every once and a while I hear from someone who had a worry free M6 for a year or two and sold it on for what he paid. But i'd rather not test my luck.
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      01-04-2021, 10:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaz3 View Post
Owned 2004 645Ci for almost 10 years, and then M6 for 5 years. When they are not broken - they are amazing cars. The problem is, the are very shoddy build quality, and I had multiple problems with both E63s. 645 was worse than M6, but M6 was a LOT more to fix. Both cars spent plenty of time out of commission.
The V8 broke more often than the V10? Interesting. What were some of the things that went wrong?

I've been eyeing 6 cylinder E60's as I've always liked the design ever since they were released. Not remotely worried about the M54 or N52 paired with a 6MT. I saw a silver/black factory Msport 2005 530i with 6MT for under $9k. That would make a really nice DD (not that I desperately need one) but not too familiar with the electronics of the car.
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      01-04-2021, 11:18 AM   #7
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The V8 broke more often than the V10? Interesting. What were some of the things that went wrong?

I've been eyeing 6 cylinder E60's as I've always liked the design ever since they were released. Not remotely worried about the M54 or N52 paired with a 6MT. I saw a silver/black factory Msport 2005 530i with 6MT for under $9k. That would make a really nice DD (not that I desperately need one) but not too familiar with the electronics of the car.
Valley pan leaks, valve stem seals, multiple oil leaks, constant ignition coil problems, cooling issues, oil consumption issues, I don't even remember all of it. And that is not taking into account all the mechatronics problems and other gearbox maladies. Electronics were a mess too, especially with TCU units failing all the time, etc. Obviously I6s are different animal, but everything else is still relatively the same.
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      01-04-2021, 11:24 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Texaz3 View Post
Valley pan leaks, valve stem seals, multiple oil leaks, constant ignition coil problems, cooling issues, oil consumption issues, I don't even remember all of it. And that is not taking into account all the mechatronics problems and other gearbox maladies. Electronics were a mess too, especially with TCU units failing all the time, etc. Obviously I6s are different animal, but everything else is still relatively the same.
Great feedback, thank you! Might need to stick with E39s the, or just skip completely. I have no problem throwing time and money at the M's, but would not have that kind of patience for a DD. It needs to not only be mechanically stout, but same goes for the electronics. I've only owned the smaller/less complicated BMW's.
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      01-05-2021, 04:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Roadster View Post
Ah dang, not what I wanted to hear lol The 6er has always been tempting to me now as you can get a clean one over here around 10,000. It would only be a summer weekend toy for me. I just want something that feels a bit more premium than the Z. I wonder if the later 650i's had fewer issues. The M6 is another battle. The Carrera GT being my number one car, a BMW with a 500hp V10 is beyond tempting, but I have not heard many stories of people who have had one used with no real issues. Maybe if one falls into my lap, i'll take the chance. Thanks.
Look at 2003-2009 MB SL500 and SL600. I personally would go for the 500 because I see it as more GT car than stoplight monster, and would want to take advantage of the 500's better gas mileage + the HUGE gas tank in those cars to do GT stuff that GT people do with their GT cars. Pretty reliable, the ABC suspension seems to be the bugaboo because it has soft bits, but there are relatively inexpensive solutions.
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      01-06-2021, 10:09 AM   #10
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Look at 2003-2009 MB SL500 and SL600. I personally would go for the 500 because I see it as more GT car than stoplight monster, and would want to take advantage of the 500's better gas mileage + the HUGE gas tank in those cars to do GT stuff that GT people do with their GT cars. Pretty reliable, the ABC suspension seems to be the bugaboo because it has soft bits, but there are relatively inexpensive solutions.
Just browsing around autotrader here. For some reason SL's command quite a premium over the 6er in my area for some reason. I really prefer the interior design of the 6 as well. I currently have a MB W246 B250 with the dual clutch and quite like it for what it is. I haven't had any experience with SLs but Mercedes as a brand always seems to have luxury as it's priority with a little sportiness sprinkled in there. While the 6er is no lightweight sports car it seems like it would have the better handling over the two. I'd have to drive both though. I have always liked the CLKs but that's not in the same competition of course.
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      01-07-2021, 03:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Sterling Roadster View Post
Just browsing around autotrader here. For some reason SL's command quite a premium over the 6er in my area for some reason. I really prefer the interior design of the 6 as well. I currently have a MB W246 B250 with the dual clutch and quite like it for what it is. I haven't had any experience with SLs but Mercedes as a brand always seems to have luxury as it's priority with a little sportiness sprinkled in there. While the 6er is no lightweight sports car it seems like it would have the better handling over the two. I'd have to drive both though. I have always liked the CLKs but that's not in the same competition of course.
I drove an SL500. Surprisingly alert in the few turns I negotiated. The ABC suspension does a cool job of keeping the car from leaning too. Power was fine but not overwhelming.
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      01-07-2021, 09:39 PM   #12
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SL500 is a fat slow cow compared to M6, come on.
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      01-09-2021, 03:18 PM   #13
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BMW big coupes for whatever reason have poor depreciation. Good buys if you are able to deal with the reliability issues of its SMG and V10/V8s. I've seen many 6-series going for about the same price as 3-series of similar vintage. Considering they MSRP at almost twice that of the 3er!
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      01-09-2021, 04:07 PM   #14
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SL500 is a fat slow cow compared to M6, come on.
I would be comparing the non-M 6er to the SL. But even still I think I lean towards the 6. The V10 M6 has no competition in my mind, except my savings account.
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      01-09-2021, 04:09 PM   #15
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BMW big coupes for whatever reason have poor depreciation. Good buys if you are able to deal with the reliability issues of its SMG and V10/V8s. I've seen many 6-series going for about the same price as 3-series of similar vintage. Considering they MSRP at almost twice that of the 3er!
I know it's crazy. What's most appealing to me is that many years ago I saw the V10 M6 new at the Toronto autoshow. My father and I drooled at it and looked at the price with laughter. Impossible. Now all this time has passed and I can get one for less than a Kia Forte. Problem is it's another Kia Forte to keep it running. Unless you're one of the lucky ones.
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      01-09-2021, 04:16 PM   #16
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I drove an SL500. Surprisingly alert in the few turns I negotiated. The ABC suspension does a cool job of keeping the car from leaning too. Power was fine but not overwhelming.
I hear the ABC suspension comes at a cost too. I always thought they were nice cars but I think if I went with an SL I would pick something older. Those cars always struck me as cruisers with some torque as opposed to the sportiness you get with most BMWs.
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      01-16-2021, 04:11 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Sterling Roadster View Post
I know it's crazy. What's most appealing to me is that many years ago I saw the V10 M6 new at the Toronto autoshow. My father and I drooled at it and looked at the price with laughter. Impossible. Now all this time has passed and I can get one for less than a Kia Forte. Problem is it's another Kia Forte to keep it running. Unless you're one of the lucky ones.
I imagine 6-series are virtually leased. Then gets CPO-ed (also leased probably). Finally its value arrives at Kia Forte prices and are snapped up by young kids for "tunerz" points. Then realised it's too expensive to maintain and finally dumped on CL.
That explains why E63 6-series seem to look like a sad Wall-E.
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      02-08-2021, 11:50 AM   #18
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my 2 cents on owning a 645ci

Hi, Seems like lot of people have had negative experience with the 645 and i truly feel bad for you.



I've had an 2005 645ci that i got in 2010 at 38k miles and sold it in 2017 at 110k miles. The car was purchased from a private party.

Ive had absolutely no problems with the car, the forums scared me a bit back in 2010, with all the coolant leak inside the engine, Vanos and other issues being reported. But i loved, and still adore the design, built quality & drive of the car, so I bought it without warrantee.

Throughout the ownership I stayed well clear of all the BS advice i got from the local BMW service advisors, maintained the car myself and replaced the parts and all oils as recommended by BMW on time. If it took more than 1 hour labor i would take it to my local mechanic.

Other than the branded BMW brakes i only got OEM parts for service and maintenance. Even the OEM parts weren't cheap but that's part of owning an expensive car.

I did had a very minor valve cover gasket leak but lived with it for years. Control arm bushing went away at around 100k and that all that went wrong.

Still regret selling it.

My advice:

1. Only buy one if you love the car. ( this should be true for any car)

2. find a used one with maintenance records from a car guy who bought the car out of love for the car and not merely to show off.

3. find a local mechanic you can trust.

4. Replace parts an oils at recommended time and NEVER wait for it to fail before replacing.

Good Luck
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      02-10-2021, 07:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamb1t View Post
I imagine 6-series are virtually leased. Then gets CPO-ed (also leased probably). Finally its value arrives at Kia Forte prices and are snapped up by young kids for "tunerz" points. Then realised it's too expensive to maintain and finally dumped on CL.
That explains why E63 6-series seem to look like a sad Wall-E.
LOOL it does look sad, poor thing. I know those V8s are not trouble free but i'm wondering if it's worth it. These things have bottomed out depreciation-wise so the only thing you can lose money on at this point is repairs. Now if that means a fix here and there I may be on board. But if i'm doubling the purchase price to keep in running I don't know.
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      02-10-2021, 07:58 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by paramlovescars View Post
Hi, Seems like lot of people have had negative experience with the 645 and i truly feel bad for you.



I've had an 2005 645ci that i got in 2010 at 38k miles and sold it in 2017 at 110k miles. The car was purchased from a private party.

Ive had absolutely no problems with the car, the forums scared me a bit back in 2010, with all the coolant leak inside the engine, Vanos and other issues being reported. But i loved, and still adore the design, built quality & drive of the car, so I bought it without warrantee.

Throughout the ownership I stayed well clear of all the BS advice i got from the local BMW service advisors, maintained the car myself and replaced the parts and all oils as recommended by BMW on time. If it took more than 1 hour labor i would take it to my local mechanic.

Other than the branded BMW brakes i only got OEM parts for service and maintenance. Even the OEM parts weren't cheap but that's part of owning an expensive car.

I did had a very minor valve cover gasket leak but lived with it for years. Control arm bushing went away at around 100k and that all that went wrong.

Still regret selling it.

My advice:

1. Only buy one if you love the car. ( this should be true for any car)

2. find a used one with maintenance records from a car guy who bought the car out of love for the car and not merely to show off.

3. find a local mechanic you can trust.

4. Replace parts an oils at recommended time and NEVER wait for it to fail before replacing.

Good Luck
It's funny, I have heard every extreme with these cars. I spoke to my mechanic who was maintaining one for a friend and it just never ended with the issues. A neighbor I had bought a 2004 645ci back in 2008 and never had ONE failure until sold it a year ago. He bought a US import car with no history on it at all, and had no troubles. He was even complaining that he had to change the battery twice in 12 years, thinking that was the worst that could happen. My dude, if that's the worst thing to happen you won the lottery with that thing. May just take the chance on one and see where I end up.
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      10-18-2022, 03:57 PM   #21
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I drove an SL500. Surprisingly alert in the few turns I negotiated. The ABC suspension does a cool job of keeping the car from leaning too. Power was fine but not overwhelming.
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      10-19-2022, 11:33 AM   #22
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The non-M's had the N63 issues which I have always told myself I would never own that engine unless it was V2 post issues. On the SMG side the non-M's I believe had SMG V2 which was not as problematic as V3 which was in the M6.

I have always wanted to pickup a M6 6spd in vert or non-vert to match my M5, but now like the M5 the 6spds keep going up in value.

Loved my buddies M6 vert, which is now in a graveyard as the SMG fully died after so many rebuilds and fixing/convert was just too exp.
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