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      01-14-2012, 01:22 PM   #45
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http://www.vacmotorsports.com/catalo...r-440ccmin.htm
Here is a reasonably priced solution for injectors, total price $317.70 Throw a walbro 255 in the mix for under $100 and you should have more than enough fuel for a stage 1 kit. Now onto the tuning issue. There is ProEFI, AEM, and I am also going to talk to Active Autowerke and some of the other S54 tuning companies and see what they think about tuning the DME for a turbo kit. If it can be done for a supercharger I dont see why it cant be tuned for a turbo kit.
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      01-14-2012, 02:14 PM   #46
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Just for the record, the contribution of the quoted text is just one idea: it will be too expensive.
You could have said just that and maybe add a reason to why you think it will be too expensive, or why the gentlemans post is uninformed.
Now your post is regarded as an immature flame post that do not contain any real form of argument to back up your statement .
Especially after the committed people in this thread have completed their researchand kit is available, boy you will look like those people who thought the earth was flat and the internetz will hate you.

As for me personally, i already think that you shouldnt post unless you provide credible arguments as to why this community shouldnt go forth.

Count me as interested party for this project. For a reliable 5k turbo heck i will take a loan and buy it now. Ill throw in a 500$ for the person who managed to pull this as a production right.












Quote:
Originally Posted by A4RingedONE8T View Post
Holy SHIT you guys need to do some research before moving forward with this, so much lack of knowledge in this reply it's not even funny. This is going to be the 5k turbo kit that ends up costing you guys 15k because of all the fuck ups along the way. Sickens me to read this, please do some research, please!
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      01-14-2012, 02:16 PM   #47
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The stock fuel pump is good enough to pull off a stage 1 dont you think?
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      01-14-2012, 03:20 PM   #48
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It is. I'm at 500 crank on the stock fuel pump and upgraded injectors
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      01-14-2012, 07:15 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Schnitzer View Post
When you get over your sickness , mind doing a comment per comment on how those points are off ?
I for one certainly had no F'-ups with my previous builds as you say. They ran awesome and it did not cost me 15k since I did my own work and fab. I'm not sure why your attacking my post as I was only adding details to components.

Your response makes you temporarily sound like a jerk. Lets see if you can change that up ?
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      01-14-2012, 09:44 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Schnitzer View Post
The V-band clamps for the flange points makes for a great manageable install or removal ! Nice !

Just because they used v-band in the shown pictures doesn't mean they will choose that on the Z4M. Surely possible but not the cheapest solution. The v-band flanges and clamps are specific to the either Precision or Tial v-band back housings and just the mating flange and clamp cost about 100 bucks. Head flange another 100 bucks, about 400-500 in sch. 10 leading you a parts COST of about 600. Selling that manifold for 1,000 bucks when MINIMUM hours to build such a manifold is about 20hrs, for 400 bucks? If you could save 100 bucks using T3 or T4, you're going to do it

I have always used Tial pressure components, so I have no word on the Turbosmart units.

Both are quality, big name companies. Mostly a preference, bigger, higher HP setups typically prefer Tial. It is a few dollars more

Someone will need to investigate the duty-cycle and flow rates of the stock injectors to see if they'll be up to the fuel delivery task for low boost or if they'll need to be upgraded. I personally ALWAYS CC my injectors to make sure they are flow matched/blueprinted. Not a big deal to do or have done.-(bench test).


Stock injectors with usually flow safely 10%, at max 18-20% depending on app. You could get minimally more power than stock on the oem injectors, on top of reducing headroom, raising the duty cycle etc. making these much less safe on the fuel end


Rubber elbows/couplers are a no-no....silicone reinforced always.

Precision turbos have a great following with proven results. Keep in mind guys...ceramic bearing turbos will spool up generally 500 rpm sooner than base bronze bearing turbos. This can be important if you need that power earlier due to cam/torque points.

A typical $1,100 Precision turbo is journal bearing, no ceramic or bronze or any type of BB. Adding ceramic dbb to any Precision turbo 6262 (35R) and up, is $600, some $700 for 7x mm + so a $1,700 turbo if ball bearing as you speak of, this is't for v-band either. Precision v-band turbine housing add $100, Tial v-band housing on a Garrett, add $200

Everyone should investigate their local speed shops to determine if they'll have a good tuning source to keep this system truly on a budget and safely done.

There are TWO tuning solutions right now for the Z4M, the ProEFI which is available but some options still be worked out, hence we are still waiting for the one in our build. The other is Nick G. of Technique Tuning, the man is a tuning genius, ridiculous with these cars however he is just now working on the E46 M3 ECU with Mike Radowski and MaximumPSI. The ECU for the Z4M is similar but not the same, it's going to require him starting from scratch which means 5-10k for the first one done, and $2k ish I would guess there after, if he even considered doing it, most likely not until his M3 stuff is done. The only other person I know in the industry to tackle such a task is Karl at Active, also a tuning genius but with the Z4M's its very limited sales capacity, I could never see them pursuing the market


Don't be afraid of learning the ropes of tuning on a laptop like thousands before you have done. It only makes sense due to the fact YOU will be the one driving and feeling/hearing the cars performance.

No ones tuning this ECU with there laptop other than those I mentioned above, it just ain't happening

The GMC Syclone/Typhoon guys have been tuning their own turbo vehicles for decades on many different systems....both stand-alone ECU's and piggy-back based systems. Recently a Code-49 has been developed which taps right into the OEM ECU for lap-top tuning with ease and full fuel mapping adjustments to the inth' degree.

Even the newest Skyline GT-R R35 has been hacked properly with great HP gains and no detonation issues- (pre-mature detonation causes piston ring failures eventually).

The tuning market for the GT-R, it's surely no Skyline though, is massive compared to BMW as a whole, let alone the Z4M. Nothing like this is happening for any recent model BMW

The great thing about V-band clamps too is if one wants to later upgrade turbos...there is no additional fab work to do so. Not to mention the whole kit can be easily removed and brought back to stock for re-sale in good shape.

A T3 or T4 turbo can be upgraded as well with zero hardware changes ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Schnitzer View Post
When you get over your sickness , mind doing a comment per comment on how those points are off ?
I for one certainly had no F'-ups with my previous builds as you say. They ran awesome and it did not cost me 15k since I did my own work and fab. I'm not sure why your attacking my post as I was only adding details to components.

Your response makes you temporarily sound like a jerk. Lets see if you can change that up ?
I gladly share my knowledge, I surely don't know a fraction of what there is to know but I'm no dummy with these cars. I also hold my standard of quality to a very high level, if it's not built to a certain standard of quality/craftsmanship, it's not a viable option in my eyes. There are many big name companies making parts for these cars that are absolutely garbage if you were to compare them to quality fabricated parts by a few various fab guys throughout the community. I guess I have a different perspective and get the job done kinda stuff just isn't an option on something I would own or build for myself or a customer
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      01-14-2012, 10:58 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle View Post
It is. I'm at 500 crank on the stock fuel pump and upgraded injectors
dude I be you could put down 600 wheel
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      01-15-2012, 09:26 AM   #52
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Hi guys I am from south africa. I just had my Z4m turbo by Sav speed. His done a sick job on it. On low boost 1bar we run pump fuel we have 750hp. But I have a problem and need a little advice! Ecu is giving us so much problems. Car is running beautiful. But when I drop a gear say 4th to 3rd and accelerate. It splutters almost feels like its flooding!!!! We can't seem to get it right. We using gotech management system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf6LvSRzS8M&feature=youtube_gdata_player

As far as $5000 for a kit. Wow that's cheap. I paid with the exchange rate $20000 that excludes brakes and kw suspension.
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      01-15-2012, 11:48 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A4RingedONE8T View Post
I gladly share my knowledge, I surely don't know a fraction of what there is to know but I'm no dummy with these cars. I also hold my standard of quality to a very high level, if it's not built to a certain standard of quality/craftsmanship, it's not a viable option in my eyes. There are many big name companies making parts for these cars that are absolutely garbage if you were to compare them to quality fabricated parts by a few various fab guys throughout the community. I guess I have a different perspective and get the job done kinda stuff just isn't an option on something I would own or build for myself or a customer
Thanks for coming back with a more mature mindset. Everyone on this board appreciates a good attitude and loathes posts like your prior one.

You did just expound on my statements, not debunk them or clarify why "so much lack of knowledge", as you put it.

In the big picture, I think your main point is the same as all of us have emphasized.....The final tuning and by whom? No need to get defensive about an area even you are not yet in control with. Its all being sorted out.

But the parts/pieces choices are always just personal choices and must connect in a leak free fashion. I've been doing my own turbo builds since the late 70's, I get it.

I've pushed OEM turbos beyond their limits and paid thousands for spec units as well. I've even built with Inconel for race applications.

Most guys aren't going to build their own stainless exhaust manifold from scratch like you or I do.....engineer the correct fire order pulse into it etc. They aren't going to have access to lathes,CNC's,Tig and Arc. Or even have the desire to build an intake out of flow dynamic software and then fab it with CNC and tube cuts.

The difference in your service and someone wanting to build a kit is clear. One of you wants to make jigs from a great single design and one does not.

It certainly doesn't mean yours is overpriced, just built one at a time with a hefty bottom-line with artistic proud welds. We all know a production weld will suffer some cosmetically but still last . That's manufacturing reality.

You'll still get your one-off deep pocket customers and they'll always love the outcome and delays. Thats a given.

The guys wanting a budget kit don't want the one-off associated costs or delays.....they just want the feel of higher ,reliable performance.

Different customer needs, that is all. Being held hostage due to tuning has always been the lump to hurdle. But always do-able.

Looking forward to progress......it's getting a later start off !
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      01-15-2012, 09:27 PM   #54
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I like Schnitzer's attitude. Let's build a turbo kit together
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      01-17-2012, 03:20 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
I like Schnitzer's attitude. Let's build a turbo kit together
Since the M platform cars are getting all the aftermarket love...I began to feel left on a stump.

I bought a set of twin turbo's off a 2008 335i . Mainly to see about space constraints and fitment for tube routing. Since my Miller welder was stolen during my late nights of packing...I'll have to source out some fab initially to get the ball rolling. I already have the other bits to support the hardware eg; Tial wastegate and Blow-off valves....aluminum and stainless tubing and t-bolt clamps etc. Even a nicely sized bar & plate Inter-cooler.

If I can't find a tuner to handle the factory DME.....I'll have to do an external boost and fuel management.

Either way....once a low boost configuration gets worked out.....I'll fab my stainless manifolds and go with nicer turbos or maybe a ball bearing single.

Surely I'll have located a S.I. N52 salvage engine to put forged internals in on the bench to go bigger boost.
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      01-17-2012, 03:40 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Schnitzer View Post
Since the M platform cars are getting all the aftermarket love...I began to feel left on a stump.

I bought a set of twin turbo's off a 2008 335i . Mainly to see about space constraints and fitment for tube routing. Since my Miller welder was stolen during my late nights of packing...I'll have to source out some fab initially to get the ball rolling. I already have the other bits to support the hardware eg; Tial wastegate and Blow-off valves....aluminum and stainless tubing and t-bolt clamps etc. Even a nicely sized bar & plate Inter-cooler.

If I can't find a tuner to handle the factory DME.....I'll have to do an external boost and fuel management.

Either way....once a low boost configuration gets worked out.....I'll fab my stainless manifolds and go with nicer turbos or maybe a ball bearing single.

Surely I'll have located a S.I. N52 salvage engine to put forged internals in on the bench to go bigger boost.
Damn, someone stole your welder? Grrr!

Given your past experience, I'd expect you can get the N2 to work. I've always wondered why BMW didn't use it as the base for the 335 instead of the N54, which is an older design. Cast iron block? Better able to handle boost? Just a curiosity. Then again ESS did come out with an S/C kit for the N52, so FI isn't unknown to this engine.
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      01-17-2012, 03:46 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Schnitzer View Post
Since the M platform cars are getting all the aftermarket love...I began to feel left on a stump.

I bought a set of twin turbo's off a 2008 335i . Mainly to see about space constraints and fitment for tube routing. Since my Miller welder was stolen during my late nights of packing...I'll have to source out some fab initially to get the ball rolling. I already have the other bits to support the hardware eg; Tial wastegate and Blow-off valves....aluminum and stainless tubing and t-bolt clamps etc. Even a nicely sized bar & plate Inter-cooler.

If I can't find a tuner to handle the factory DME.....I'll have to do an external boost and fuel management.

Either way....once a low boost configuration gets worked out.....I'll fab my stainless manifolds and go with nicer turbos or maybe a ball bearing single.

Surely I'll have located a S.I. N52 salvage engine to put forged internals in on the bench to go bigger boost.
I'm not even going to attempt hacking the stock ECU. That means only external piggyback or full standalone will be required. Keep me posted on if/when you get your snail shells rollin'
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      01-17-2012, 04:03 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
I'm not even going to attempt hacking the stock ECU. That means only external piggyback or full standalone will be required. Keep me posted on if/when you get your snail shells rollin'

This little piggy went to market.
This little piggy stayed home.
This little piggy had roast beef.
This little piggy had none.
And Mfanatic's little piggy went wee wee wee I'm kickin' out the boost all the way home!
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      01-17-2012, 04:16 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Damn, someone stole your welder? Grrr!

Given your past experience, I'd expect you can get the N2 to work. I've always wondered why BMW didn't use it as the base for the 335 instead of the N54, which is an older design. Cast iron block? Better able to handle boost? Just a curiosity. Then again ESS did come out with an S/C kit for the N52, so FI isn't unknown to this engine.
I know (welder), I was smokin' hot about it too. All custom set-up the way I liked it too.

Regarding the alloy block of the N52.....I've wondered too if this was ever a REAL concern for BMW's engineer's ? I've found nothing online about it. I seriously don't think it's a viable LARGE boost choice though...as in above 15lbs. Even built.

The block might be able to if it was girdled though.

Do you know if it was the N52 b30 or the earlier version that ESS SC'd ?
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      01-17-2012, 04:22 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
I'm not even going to attempt hacking the stock ECU. That means only external piggyback or full standalone will be required. Keep me posted on if/when you get your snail shells rollin'
I do have a Wolf 3-d stand alone I could try. But I was saving that for the Rb26dett engine.
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      01-17-2012, 04:44 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
This little piggy went to market.
This little piggy stayed home.
This little piggy had roast beef.
This little piggy had none.
And Mfanatic's little piggy went wee wee wee I'm kickin' out the boost all the way home!
Callin' me fat (a piggy) eh ron? Them are fightin' werdz. LoL jk. Gotta love bacon though xD
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      01-17-2012, 05:42 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
This little piggy went to market.
This little piggy stayed home.
This little piggy had roast beef.
This little piggy had none.
And Mfanatic's little piggy went wee wee wee I'm kickin' out the boost all the way home!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
Callin' me fat (a piggy) eh ron? Them are fightin' werdz. LoL jk. Gotta love bacon though xD


Yep, those little piggies work pretty well. Lots of guys using them on the N54 platform. Though this would be more complex I can see it working, and that little piggy would sure add some kick!

Dark Schnitzer, I stand corrected. ESS has an S/C for the M54, not the M52. Sorry about that!
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      01-17-2012, 05:56 PM   #63
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hahaha
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      01-20-2012, 09:34 PM   #64
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      01-26-2012, 04:24 AM   #65
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With any FI application, I am "interested."

But I'm not dropping $5k+ unless:

1) The "kit" already exists, install has been documented (not a bunch of one off/custom)
2) It comes with a proven tune

For less than 5K, you could source/create your own kit anyways and still but SOL without finding some way to tune it.
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      01-26-2012, 09:37 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Maniac View Post
With any FI application, I am "interested."

But I'm not dropping $5k+ unless:

1) The "kit" already exists, install has been documented (not a bunch of one off/custom)
2) It comes with a proven tune

For less than 5K, you could source/create your own kit anyways and still but SOL without finding some way to tune it.
Most guys go AEMS, MegaSquirt, Wolf 3D and on up the food chain of stand alones.
That is if your speaking of going above a stage one (Stage 1=factory injectors and no IC).

I personally wouldn't even think of boosting my lawn mower without a n inter-cooler and uprated injectors.
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