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      04-05-2019, 03:50 AM   #1
eggman51
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Adjusting rear coilovers?

Hey Folks,

I'm new to coilovers, but am considering the upgrade.

I think I understand how front adjustments are made on one or two adjustment coilovers. However I don't understand how the rears are adjusted. It seems like a potentially big pain in the arse if the adjustment is in the same place as the fronts.

How are rears typically adjusted?

Forgive me if that's a dumb question... still trying to figure these out.

Thanks in advance
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      04-05-2019, 05:59 AM   #2
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If you think the front is hard to adjust with a coilover setup (which it is not) I have some really bad news for you pal.

Our cars use a divorced rearend setup.

You can only adjust ride height by changing the spring height or using adjustable rear spring perches which do the same thing really.
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      04-05-2019, 12:49 PM   #3
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Hi Anile8,

Thank you for the reply and for bearing with my lack of knowledge.

To clarify, I was wondering about the adjustment of the rebound and compression to make it easy to switch between a track set-up and a street set-up. It seems awfully wasteful to have adjustable coil overs and not adjust them, so I want to ensure I know what I am getting into and that the adjustment is accessible.

The Z4 M Roadster is my daily driver, but my urban commute is extremely short. The wife and I like to abandon the kids and go for "date night" drives to get some dinner, so it can't ride like a go-kart all the time. I plan to track the car between 4 and 8 times a year, but getting to decent tracks is a 4 to 5 hour drive.

On the fronts it seems like the adjustments are fairly straightforward. I believe the adjustment is done at the top of the shock for rebound and at either the external reservoir or bottom of the shock for compression. I may have that backwards, but it seems pretty easy to adjust these.

On the rears, I am not sure I understand how these same adjustments are done on a Z4 because the top of the rear shocks seem to be a pain in the ass to access.

How are the same adjustments done for the rear suspension? Is it feasible to expect that adjustments could be done easily before and after track events? Does at vary by manufacturer and/or whether external reservoirs are used?

I was wondering if an external reservoir would make adjustments significantly easier to perform? These appears to be more expensive systems, but if it means I will actually use the adjustments, it might be worth it.

I don't see me adjusting ride height too frequently. I would imagine I'd get it as low as it can be without rubbing or bottoming out and leave it that way.

Thanks again.

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      04-05-2019, 08:07 PM   #4
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Hi eggman51, and welcome to the ZPost forum.

It is a good place for information if you are new to this vehicle and we are mostly a friendly bunch around here although a thick skin is needed sometimes.

I will try to address your concerns in order of appearance then follow-up with some recommendations and advice from my personal experience with coilovers for this platform.

You made a very good point firstly about how the coilover system will be adjusted. A consideration that many I feel never touch on and if they do it is only as a secondary afterthought. The ease of system adjustability was one of my main buying criteria. Alongside; quality, after sales support, brand/company reputation and lastly way down the list just about off the page was price. As when it comes to suspension you get every dollar of what you pay for with the major big players in the coilover game and the quality will always remain, well after the price is forgotten.

I do hear what you are saying about ride comfort and rest assured, unless you go for stupidly high spring rates, most good quality coilovers will not destroy your ride quality level. Monoball / Spherical suspension mounts or bushings will handle that for you all by themselves and make it feel like you have steel tires, but that is a different topic. Rest assured, ride quality should be no worse than stock with a good coilover setup.

Now, let us address ride heights and height adjustment for both front and rear. With the front, because our vehicles originally use a MacPherson strut design a true coilover setup is well tolerated here. You just adjust the ride height via the spring collar. Some will say this is spring preload but in my opinion that is the correct way to do things and even if your coilovers do have adjustable lower sleeves you don’t want to mess too much with that because it will alter the available travel. That is why you will notice that most very high quality race spec coilovers do not have lower adjustment is this area for that very reason, suspension travel. Front adjustably by dropping a wheel and turning the locking collar takes about 15min per side, so that is not a problem.

As for the rear, you are limited by spring height for adjustment as our cars use a divorced rearend design where the spring is completely separate from the damper. You can use a true coilover here but you have to reinforce the rear shock towers and run a cage for extra reinforcement, believe me you just don’t want to go there. The only benefit I see for this is easy height adjustment but the trade-off is not worth it. Most coilovers kits will specify how much of a height change from stock you can expect for the rear with the springs they supply in the kit. For myself, I use progressive Eibach springs and the rear sits about 0.5” lower than stock, which is enough for me. If you want to drop lower you are best advised to go for linear springs and use an adjustable spring perch from someone like Rouge Engineering. Ride height is something as you advise you will not be messing with much after it is set, so I do not see this as a major issue whichever way you decide to go.

Now let us discuss rebound/comp adjustability. Well really before we can do this, I need more information about what type of coilover system you were potentially considering. Meaning that if you wanted 1-Way, 2-Way, 3-Way or 4-Way adjustability? I would say defiantly pass on the 1-Way adjustable package as you are basically foregoing all of the benefits of having any separate rebound/comp adjustability.

1-Way systems are floored in so much as the customer is stuck with what the manufacturer ‘thinks’ should be the right comp/rebound ratio and whether that is a move forward, backward or merely sideways from your existing set-up, you will not be able to judge until after they are installed. If you don't like how the manufacturer sets the comp (or some call it bump) to rebound damping ratio there is bugger all you can do about it which equates to 100% waste of investment and total buyer remorse. I have never regretted buying more than what I needed but I used to regret buying less than what was ideally needed. At least with 2-Way coilovers the ratio between the aforementioned parameters is infinitely adjustable to your liking.

You might already know but just quickly, 2-Way gives you separate bump/rebound control, 3-Way gives you rebound, low speed comp and hi-speed comp and 4-Way gives you low and hi-speed comp and rebound. External reservoirs do make things a lot easier and offer added performance benefits they are typically found on 2-Way, 3-Way and 4-Way setups.

If you wanted a 2-Way setup, they come in both inbuilt and external reservoir models. If you wanted a 2-Way inbuilt setup then the fronts will always have rebount adjustment of the top and comp adjustment on the bottom of the strut as this piece is an integral structural part of the vehicle and can only be fitted one way. Meaning the front damper will always be a standard upright type. This is the same for 3-Way and 4-Way designs too. However, for the rear you can use and inverted damper or standard config. Depending on what is used, it will alter where the adjustment is. If you go for 2-Way with no remote reservoirs you normally get an adjustment extension cable that runs through into the trunk liner area so you can either make the rebound or comp adjustment easily depending on damper design without ripping your vehicle to bits.

Please advise what adjustment you were considering and I will do my best to explain how the adjustment is done with regard to setting the comp and rebound.
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      04-06-2019, 01:39 AM   #5
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eggman,

Do you have a convertible or coupe? The adjustment knob for the rears are usually at the top for many coilover systems. It is a pain because I have a convertible. The convertible shelf is in the way of accessing the top of the strut and once you put that back, it's almost impossible to adjust. PSS10 has the knob at the bottom. It'll be my next setup due to this.

You are local to me. Maybe meetup sometime in the summer? We have a few guys local on this board. A meeting is long over due.

Cheers!
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      04-06-2019, 01:06 PM   #6
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Hey Gents,

Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

To add more clarity: Car is 2006 Z4M Roadster with 85,000 km / 52,000 miles. I've been addressing cosmetic and mechanical issues. For example I've replaced the VANOS with a Dr Vanos cryo treated unit, and will replace the S54 rod bearings later this month.

When I bought it used, the car came with 19" "csl style" wheels from a manufacturer I am uncertain of. These look amazing, but I am going to revert back to 18" Apex ARC-8 wheels and some new Michelin Super Sport tires as I believe 18" with a slight lowering of the car will look just as good and perform much better on the track.

In hindsight, I think a Z4M Coupe would be better suited to *most* of my needs EXCEPT the roof doesn't go down

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANILE8 View Post
Monoball / Spherical suspension mounts or bushings will handle that for you all by themselves and make it feel like you have steel tires, but that is a different topic.
I am keen to learn more about the right bushing replacements / setups as I think at 50k miles and an intent to track the car, some of these components may need replacing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ANILE8 View Post
Now let us discuss rebound/comp adjustability. Well really before we can do this, I need more information about what type of coilover system you were potentially considering
I think a 2 way system is right for me. I think I would get lost in the 3 or 4 way adjustments. The performance of the car on the track is going to be more about my driving than any extra suspension adjustments. The 2 way adjustments are mostly to toggle between road and track settings (and perhaps once I get more comfortable in the car some optimization of track settings).


Quote:
Originally Posted by ANILE8 View Post
If you go for 2-Way with no remote reservoirs you normally get an adjustment extension cable that runs through into the trunk liner area so you can either make the rebound or comp adjustment easily depending on damper design without ripping your vehicle to bits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeD4Mr View Post
Do you have a convertible or coupe? The adjustment knob for the rears are usually at the top for many coilover systems. It is a pain because I have a convertible. The convertible shelf is in the way of accessing the top of the strut and once you put that back, it's almost impossible to adjust. PSS10 has the knob at the bottom. It'll be my next setup due to this.
The issue with the Roadster vs Coupe now makes sense to me - folks with Coupes don't have any issues because the top of shock is much more accessible than with the Roadster. The accessibility of the adjustment will be a big factor in what I choose.

In terms of the systems I have been looking at:
KW Variant 3
- seems decent quality, decent reviews
- pretty good pricing available right now through ECS Tuning ($200 gift card + $350 rebate)
- still don't quite grok how adjusting the rears will work in a Roadster

JRZ RS Two Sport or RS Pro Sport
- seems high quality, good reviews
- very expensive
- the external dampers on the Pro seem to make adjustment easier
- still don't quite grok how adjusting the rears will work in a Roadster

Bilstein PSS10
- seems decent quality, good reviews
- this seems to be a 1 way system
- the adjustment seems relatively accessible from the bottom of the shock

I am not sure if there are others worth looking at.. my main concern is I don't want to buy a system that I know I won't adjust because it's too tedious on the Roadster to get at the adjustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeD4Mr View Post
You are local to me. Maybe meetup sometime in the summer? We have a few guys local on this board. A meeting is long over due.
That would be cool! I live in East Van, work in Burnaby, and plan to do some track days at The Ridge via The Speed Syndicate and some autocross out in Pitt Meadows.

Thanks again for the thoughtful replies.

Cheers,
Eamonn aka eggman
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      04-08-2019, 12:20 AM   #7
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You can feel free to reply to my thread on solid Monoball mounts HERE. Or start your own thread on the topic if you wish to discuss other more street friendly bushings.

Seeing as you have a roadster and you want a 2-Way setup with easy adjustment then the answer is clear. You have two obvious choices. JRZ RS PRO or MCS 2W. I would directly compare these two brands and cross shop them as they are both very good. You have to tell them you want an inverted rear damper or the rebound adjustment will not be on the bottom. They can make it either way as at this price level, everything is custom ordered to your spec.

KW V3's will not suit your adjustment requirements and Bilstein PSS series is not even in the same class as the first two brands apart from only being 1-Way adjustable so not even a contender.

The JRZ RS PRO would fit your needs, Don't forget you need to order them with dry-breaks (quick disconnects) on the rear or get ready to cut a couple of huge 2.5" holes in your sheet metal. Staubli dry-breaks are not cheap, at around $350-$400 each! I hope you have deep pockets, you have to pay to play if you want all the good stuff. The front can be installed without needing them.

Forget about the RS TWO if the rebound extenders they supply are not long enough for you, not sure if they can make them to any length, you will have to ask JRZ if they can custom make them to your required length and if so what is the added cost.

If you are really on a budget and the above choices do not workout for you have a chat to MCS about their 2WNR model for well under $3.5K. It is a 2-Way system with no remote reservoir and it looks like they can make their rear damper in an inverted design with the comp/rebound adjustment on the bottom.



However, if you have your heart set on external reservoirs, for the price of the JRZ or MCS kits you can get in my opinion a much much better 3-Way quality hand built kit from Nitron.

Also, keep in mind that MCS and JRZ do not normally include front camber plates in the advertised price while the Nitron kit does. You would normally be looking at around $500 if you have to buy them separately!

You can see my impressions HERE
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Last edited by ANILE8; 04-08-2019 at 06:28 AM..
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      04-09-2019, 12:58 AM   #8
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Thanks again for excellent feedback!

I love the workmanship on those Nitron parts. Looks amazing.

I've been splurging a lot lately on brake, tire, wheel, and preventative engine work (Vanos, rod bearings) as well as some unexpected repairs (starter, alternator, battery, headlights, window regulator). Leaving me pretty tight budget wise.

It seems as though any of these 2 (or 3) way coil overs are going to be problematic with a Roadster from an accessibility of adjustment perspective.

The KW v3 seems reasonably priced and I was wondering if the "extenders" would enable it to be adjusted from inside the trunk?

If I was going to go all the way for MCS or JRZ, I would definitely look at the Nitron - they look amazing. Right now the KW v3 seem decent and can be had for nearly half the price, so I have to think carefully. The ability to adjust conveniently is important.

I will read your thread on the bushings to try and learn more about this.

Thanks again!
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      04-10-2019, 11:12 AM   #9
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ANILE8 Offers awesome feedback. One thing that I would add is that JRZ and MCS are also hand built to order - not mass produced like KW or other systems. Like he mentioned, bushings and mounts also play a big part in all of this.

I Just spent 2 events (3 track days) in the past month tuning my new JRZ TWO (800/900) and will do another 2 days this weekend. If this is your first experience with tuning coilovers and dialing in suspension, my suggestion is not to get caught up in external reservoirs. You will be shocked with the amount of adjustability in the premium (JRZ/MCS) non-remote system and the additional tuning could just confuse you or mask other issues.

For example, after dialing up 3 clicks from baseline, I was getting a slight push at corner entry. Dialed the fronts down 1 click to add more oversteer. Before I even got onto the track the car wanted to snap over-steer. In other words, 1 click turned the car from neutral to tail-happy.

Regardless of what system you choose (all good options), just remember that a well tuned setup will almost always be better than a poorly tuned higher-end system. Also everything is a trade-off. If you're trying to keep your car street-able, then you cannot expect the best results on track.

Hope this helps and keep us posted on what you decide to get!
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      04-10-2019, 12:42 PM   #10
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Thanks very much for the response.

I have some experience setting up cars, I raced Formula 2000 cars ~30 years ago. I haven't owned a road car I was an enthusiast about for a looooong time, so much of this is new to me.

I think the Nitron shocks are more race oriented than I need. I also think I would get lost in a 3 way adjustment system.

I am leaning toward the JRZ RS Pro. The external reservoirs seem to make adjustment easier and if there are extenders - which I understand there are - the adjustment seems to be accessible from within the roadster trunk.

I need to look into the trunk bit some more - I am not sure if the parts that block access to the top of the shocks are critical. I am wondering if I can just leave those out and not lose any functionality or cause any maintenance issues. It will look a bit ugly from inside the trank, but I don't care about that.

As for bushings, I also need to do more research here. With 50k miles and some investment in upgraded suspension, it seems silly to me not to "service" all the important parts of the suspension that can wear out.

Thanks again for your thoughts and ideas - very much appreciated.

Cheers,
Eamonn aka eggman
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      04-10-2019, 07:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eggman51 View Post

I am leaning toward the JRZ RS Pro. The external reservoirs seem to make adjustment easier and if there are extenders - which I understand there are - the adjustment seems to be accessible from within the roadster trunk.
No, No, Noooooo. I think with all this information you might be confusing yourself way too much.

On most, if not all of the JRZ dealers websites's the photo's of the kits are generic not model specific.

As already stated, coilover kits at this level they are all fully custom made to the customer's spec. Spring rates, hydraulic hose line length, etc...

JRZ make excellent products, you will never regret buying them and I have heard their customer service is excellent.

If you are ordering the JRZ RS PRO's, rear rebound extender adjusters are NOT required if you specify inverted rear dampers as explained below. Your biggest problem now is going to be just knowing what it is you really want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANILE8 View Post

Seeing as you have a roadster and you want a 2-Way setup with easy adjustment then the answer is clear. You have to tell them you want an inverted rear damper or the rebound adjustment will not be on the bottom. They can make it either way as at this price level, everything is custom made to your spec.
With inverted rear dampers, the rebound adjustment will be on the bottom of the damper where you just reach under and turn the knob left or right. No rebound adjustment extenders are required.

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      04-10-2019, 11:38 PM   #12
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If for any reason JRZ cannot or will not do an inverted rear 2-Way remote res damper for your application check out Ontrack thread about his MCS 2-Way set-up HERE

You will see the rebound adjustment is also on the bottom.

Although he is using a ture coilover rearend setup you can also use conventional progressive H&R or eibach lowering springs for a nice 0.5" - 1.0" drop over stock in the rear.
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      04-11-2019, 01:54 AM   #13
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Excellent info - thanks.

It seems as though leaving out some of the bits in the trunk can expose the top of the shocks for adjustment. I am not sure what is sacrificed - if anything - by leaving those bits out. Between external reservoirs and exposed top of the shock, it would seem I can relatively easily adjust everything.

It rains a lot where I live and not having to lie on the ground to adjust is appealing for an aging fat guy

I will likely call JRZ within the next few days to ask some questions.

The link to the MCS stuff helps understand what you mean better - thanks for that - but the aging fat guy thing is relevant here =)



Thanks again - very helpful - much appreciated.

Cheers,
Eamonn aka eggman

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      04-12-2019, 04:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eggman51 View Post
Excellent info - thanks.

It seems as though leaving out some of the bits in the trunk can expose the top of the shocks for adjustment. I am not sure what is sacrificed - if anything - by leaving those bits out. Between external reservoirs and exposed top of the shock, it would seem I can relatively easily adjust everything.

It rains a lot where I live and not having to lie on the ground to adjust is appealing for an aging fat guy

I will likely call JRZ within the next few days to ask some questions.

The link to the MCS stuff helps understand what you mean better - thanks for that - but the aging fat guy thing is relevant here =)



Thanks again - very helpful - much appreciated.

Cheers,
Eamonn aka eggman
is that your car without the shelf in, any problems opening closing the top?
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      04-12-2019, 04:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boca1 View Post
is that your car without the shelf in, any problems opening closing the top?
Nope, but I definitely have the same question
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      04-12-2019, 04:23 PM   #16
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I think there is a safety switch that can be bypassed if you leave the shelf out, I might cut out the dooms and access from the interior behind the seats with the top up. I'm probably going to go with the Koni DA rear shocks from a mustang with 12mm reverse shock mounts and stock springs.
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      04-12-2019, 04:24 PM   #17
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There's a switch in the middle of the bulkhead. It's essentially a piece of metal looks like the contact prongs of the negative post of a AA battery. That switch needs to be depressed to act as the "shelf down" position in order for the top to work as intended.

I've taped it down when I had my shelf off while adjusting the coilover.

HTHs
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      04-12-2019, 04:38 PM   #18
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Good to know about the switch. Seems a relatively easy work around. Regards cutting holes in the domes - that seems to be the best solution - cut holes and run an extender through them, adjust the suspension from inside the car with the top up. I am still doing research.. and uh trying to justify this over a family vacation
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      04-12-2019, 04:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eggman51 View Post
Good to know about the switch. Seems a relatively easy work around. Regards cutting holes in the domes - that seems to be the best solution - cut holes and run an extender through them, adjust the suspension from inside the car with the top up. I am still doing research.. and uh trying to justify this over a family vacation
Family vacation, kids grow up too quick
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      04-12-2019, 05:57 PM   #20
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this video show the removal of the tray, but it did not correspond to my 2007 Z4, my tray/ledge was attached to my fabric top
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      04-12-2019, 06:00 PM   #21
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I was able to get the side covers out without removing the tray, the christmas tree clips had a pin I had to pull up and out before the tree came out.
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