ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-31-2017, 08:18 AM   #89
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2409
Rep
9,015
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

That engine is more than 100lbs heavier than the N52 - but this build was amazing.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2017, 10:23 AM   #90
dre99gsx
Captain
375
Rep
812
Posts

Drives: 1994 Toyota Supra
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
That engine is more than 100lbs heavier than the N52 - but this build was amazing.
Perhaps:

"Stock Z4 3.0si Coupe weighs 3073 to 3108 lbs (google), 50% F, 50 % R, don't if this is w/o fluids or full tank of gas
Stock Z4M Coupe weighs 3231 lbs (half tank) to 3275 (full tank), 50.5% F, 49.5%rear confirmed by a few members on bimmerforums
My 2JZ Coupe weighs 3175 lbs (half tank), 52.7% F, 47.2% R."

Without confirmation of a stick Z4 3.0si weight, I can only surmise after some reading that BMW quotes curb weight as 90% of gas in the tank, full fluids. That would mean 3108 is the closer weight. My weight was at half tank, thus, add 42lbs (7 gallons more), and I would be at 3217 = 109 lbs more.

Regardless, I'm still about 50lbs lighter than a Z4M, although one could argue throwing the front/rear balance off as much as I have is probably worse in the handling division, but keep in mind: My Supra comes with 55% F, 44% rear - much worse!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2017, 11:14 AM   #91
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2409
Rep
9,015
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
Perhaps:

"Stock Z4 3.0si Coupe weighs 3073 to 3108 lbs (google), 50% F, 50 % R, don't if this is w/o fluids or full tank of gas
Stock Z4M Coupe weighs 3231 lbs (half tank) to 3275 (full tank), 50.5% F, 49.5%rear confirmed by a few members on bimmerforums
My 2JZ Coupe weighs 3175 lbs (half tank), 52.7% F, 47.2% R."

Without confirmation of a stick Z4 3.0si weight, I can only surmise after some reading that BMW quotes curb weight as 90% of gas in the tank, full fluids. That would mean 3108 is the closer weight. My weight was at half tank, thus, add 42lbs (7 gallons more), and I would be at 3217 = 109 lbs more.

Regardless, I'm still about 50lbs lighter than a Z4M, although one could argue throwing the front/rear balance off as much as I have is probably worse in the handling division, but keep in mind: My Supra comes with 55% F, 44% rear - much worse!
The math isn't wrong, but I believe those weights are with the driver.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2017, 11:17 AM   #92
dre99gsx
Captain
375
Rep
812
Posts

Drives: 1994 Toyota Supra
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ

iTrader: (1)

The stock 3.0si weight 3108 is without driver - I don' t see why BMW would quote a vehicle curb weight WITH a driver. Same for the Z4M weights which you can verify via some bimmerforums threads where they specifically weighed the vehicle without a driver.

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=910840
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2017, 11:36 AM   #93
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2409
Rep
9,015
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
The stock 3.0si weight 3108 is without driver - I don' t see why BMW would quote a vehicle curb weight WITH a driver. Same for the Z4M weights which you can verify via some bimmerforums threads where they specifically weighed the vehicle without a driver.

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=910840
Not trying to muck up your awesome thread, but the Z4 SI is around 30xx without the driver -

Here it shows they (BMW, Euro manufactures) list weights with a 'driver' factored in
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=919364

Here is the 2jZ engine weight
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...-engine-weight

N52 Engine weight
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=233682

And of course C/D's test one one

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-specs-page-2

3060lbs.

The engine alone is about 150 - 200lbs heavier with than the N52 for sure.

Last edited by Taskmaster; 01-31-2017 at 11:45 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2017, 01:14 PM   #94
dre99gsx
Captain
375
Rep
812
Posts

Drives: 1994 Toyota Supra
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ

iTrader: (1)

Get your facts straight (alternate facts?)!

My engine, although 2JZ, is modified (single turbo, reduction in components (evap, etc), no power steering pump, light weight flywheel, and many more), thus you can't go by the normal 2jz engine weight for my scenario. Also, my Z4 came with an automatic, which by all intents is heavier than a manual. My conversion to manual probably shed some pounds. There are differences there as well.

All those figures in supraforums are missing specific details. There are different configurations of the 2JZ / Transmission / Flywheel, turbo. I wouldn't trust those numbers as you don't know where they came from.

The C&D weight of 3080lbs comes from where? There is BMW literature with that figure, but you don't know if that is dry weight, no fuel, full tank, etc.

As per your bimmerpost link:
"US Curb Weight:
Weight of car with fluids and fuel at 100% as well as weight of any option expected to be in more than 33% of vehicles sold. Driver not included in US legal defintion, but usually included in manufacturers public figures."

Wikipedia states 3075 3.0si coupe, 3230 Z4M, diff of 155 lbs. My figure of 3108 came directly from the Z4 BMW Brochure ( http://www.bmwz4roadster.net/brochure/2007_E85-E86.pdf ) , which BTW quotes 3080lbs for the 3.0si convertible, and 3108lbs for the coupe (mind you, 3156 for the 3.0si coupe AUTOMATIC). Also, confirmed Z4M coupe weights of 3230ish with half tank gas almost matches BMW brochure of 3230, thus, I rather trust the data from BMW directly.

If we use the theory of including a driver, 30lbs must be some anorexic human!

I can say for certain I'm still lighter by 50-60lbs than a stock Z4M Coupe, and so the swap itself is not going to impact weight (for the most part) as many eluded to, specifically those in the camp of "why swap a heavier / older motor into a well balanced car". If we use BMW's automatic weight of 3156, it's almost a net net gain...

-------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Not trying to muck up your awesome thread, but the Z4 SI is around 30xx without the driver -

Here it shows they (BMW, Euro manufactures) list weights with a 'driver' factored in
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=919364

Here is the 2jZ engine weight
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...-engine-weight

N52 Engine weight
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=233682

And of course C/D's test one one

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-specs-page-2

3060lbs.

The engine alone is about 150 - 200lbs heavier with than the N52 for sure.
__________________

Last edited by dre99gsx; 01-31-2017 at 01:20 PM..
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2017, 02:48 PM   #95
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2409
Rep
9,015
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
Get your facts straight (alternate facts?)!

My engine, although 2JZ, is modified (single turbo, reduction in components (evap, etc), no power steering pump, light weight flywheel, and many more), thus you can't go by the normal 2jz engine weight for my scenario. Also, my Z4 came with an automatic, which by all intents is heavier than a manual. My conversion to manual probably shed some pounds. There are differences there as well.

All those figures in supraforums are missing specific details. There are different configurations of the 2JZ / Transmission / Flywheel, turbo. I wouldn't trust those numbers as you don't know where they came from.

The C&D weight of 3080lbs comes from where? There is BMW literature with that figure, but you don't know if that is dry weight, no fuel, full tank, etc.

As per your bimmerpost link:
"US Curb Weight:
Weight of car with fluids and fuel at 100% as well as weight of any option expected to be in more than 33% of vehicles sold. Driver not included in US legal defintion, but usually included in manufacturers public figures."

Wikipedia states 3075 3.0si coupe, 3230 Z4M, diff of 155 lbs. My figure of 3108 came directly from the Z4 BMW Brochure ( http://www.bmwz4roadster.net/brochure/2007_E85-E86.pdf ) , which BTW quotes 3080lbs for the 3.0si convertible, and 3108lbs for the coupe (mind you, 3156 for the 3.0si coupe AUTOMATIC). Also, confirmed Z4M coupe weights of 3230ish with half tank gas almost matches BMW brochure of 3230, thus, I rather trust the data from BMW directly.

If we use the theory of including a driver, 30lbs must be some anorexic human!

I can say for certain I'm still lighter by 50-60lbs than a stock Z4M Coupe, and so the swap itself is not going to impact weight (for the most part) as many eluded to, specifically those in the camp of "why swap a heavier / older motor into a well balanced car". If we use BMW's automatic weight of 3156, it's almost a net net gain...

-------------------
'Alt-facts' is going to be my new phrase!

But I can't imagine the 2jZ with it's iron block and turbo/turbo accessories is just a few lbs heaver than something like the magnesium/aluminum block the N52 is. I think there may have been weight savings for the transmission, but the engine itself has to be pretty hefty.

Also, BMW usually accounts for a driver being 170lbs (which is heavier than me!) but my E90/2 was just over 3400lbs with me inside of it...(I weigh almost 155lbs) which is different than what...I forgot what we were talking about.

Shit, enjoy the car man - it looks like a blast.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2017, 03:00 PM   #96
dre99gsx
Captain
375
Rep
812
Posts

Drives: 1994 Toyota Supra
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ

iTrader: (1)

Haha - no worries, it's all a toss up anyway
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2017, 02:09 PM   #97
3GFX
Captain
3GFX's Avatar
Canada
712
Rep
905
Posts

Drives: 2003 BMW Z4 3.0i
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Next time you get a chance, pop to a scrap yard and throw it on the scale. I've done that, they don't mind really. That way you'll know for sure
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2017, 02:17 PM   #98
dre99gsx
Captain
375
Rep
812
Posts

Drives: 1994 Toyota Supra
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ

iTrader: (1)

I have my own scales



That is why I'm certain
__________________

Last edited by dre99gsx; 07-31-2017 at 01:19 PM..
Appreciate 1
3GFX711.50
      02-01-2017, 06:58 PM   #99
3002 tii
Lieutenant General
3002 tii's Avatar
United_States
1696
Rep
12,043
Posts

Drives: Z4 M, 550i, X3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (95)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
The stock 3.0si weight 3108 is without driver - I don' t see why BMW would quote a vehicle curb weight WITH a driver. Same for the Z4M weights which you can verify via some bimmerforums threads where they specifically weighed the vehicle without a driver.

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=910840
Agreed with driver makes no sense.

My 3.0si 6mt with navi, recaros and rollbar tipped scale at 3023lbs with 1/4 tank gas
__________________
Follow for latest mods
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2017, 02:29 PM   #100
MPLICIT
Major
MPLICIT's Avatar
88
Rep
1,013
Posts

Drives: Z4MC S65B40A Swap
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (9)

Why is the Z4MC so much heavier?
Appreciate 0
      03-18-2017, 04:13 AM   #101
Westersund
Captain
Westersund's Avatar
Sweden
230
Rep
651
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hallstahammar

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloTheGod View Post
Why is the Z4MC so much heavier?
Because the S54 (Z4M) have a cast iron block while the N52 (Z4 Non-M) have an aluminium block.
Appreciate 0
      03-18-2017, 07:03 AM   #102
MPLICIT
Major
MPLICIT's Avatar
88
Rep
1,013
Posts

Drives: Z4MC S65B40A Swap
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westersund View Post
Because the S54 (Z4M) have a cast iron block while the N52 (Z4 Non-M) have an aluminium block.
I did not think it was THAT much heavier.

Glad I'm doing an S65 even more
Appreciate 0
      03-18-2017, 09:24 AM   #103
dre99gsx
Captain
375
Rep
812
Posts

Drives: 1994 Toyota Supra
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ

iTrader: (1)

The S54 is 3.2l, which is 0.2L more than the N52, that could explain some of the weight difference.









In reality, the 2JZ is also an iron block, yet I'm still well below a regular Z4M weight. As I mentioned, probably more to do with all the other lightweight aftermarket updates I made..

Wikepedia states the S65 weighs 30lbs less than the "replacement engine", or the S54. I don't think you'll see that much of a drop when all is said and done.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-18-2017, 06:53 PM   #104
Westersund
Captain
Westersund's Avatar
Sweden
230
Rep
651
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hallstahammar

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloTheGod View Post
I did not think it was THAT much heavier.

Glad I'm doing an S65 even more
Not sure about the S54 and N52 block weight difference but the difference between a M50 (iron) and a M52 (aluminium) is about 30 kg (66 lbs) if I don't remember wrong.
Appreciate 0
      03-18-2017, 07:14 PM   #105
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
4986
Rep
3,494
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westersund View Post
but the difference between a M50 (iron) and a M52 (aluminium) is about 30 kg (66 lbs) if I don't remember wrong.
Thats about right. N52 is about the same mass.


Reason for the z4m being over 100kg heavier is engine (30kg or so) but also dual backbox exhaust (about 15-20kg, the complete exhaust is bigger/heavier), 215 diff (lsd), hydraulic steering and bigger brakes. And countless little differences (propshaft, gearknob , extra oil cooler, etc etc). It all adds up.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ supercharger | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers/KW camber plates | Sachs race engineering clutch | tons of custom sh#t

Last edited by GuidoK; 03-18-2017 at 07:23 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2017, 11:45 AM   #106
tominizer
Lieutenant
tominizer's Avatar
Canada
91
Rep
490
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4M Roadster
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (1)

Now.............. just take it to a BMW Dealership and tell them you want an oil change.
Appreciate 1
TAL2GK139.50
      03-28-2017, 12:36 PM   #107
dre99gsx
Captain
375
Rep
812
Posts

Drives: 1994 Toyota Supra
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ

iTrader: (1)

Haha - I really should! Hmm....
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2017, 03:39 PM   #108
FD3S
Private First Class
68
Rep
192
Posts

Drives: BMW Z4M
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Dreamland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tominizer View Post
Now.............. just take it to a BMW Dealership and tell them you want an oil change.
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2017, 08:02 AM   #109
3GFX
Captain
3GFX's Avatar
Canada
712
Rep
905
Posts

Drives: 2003 BMW Z4 3.0i
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Troll lololol
































Camera under the hood

Do it and post results
Appreciate 0
      04-28-2017, 08:49 AM   #110
Eau_Rouge111
Lieutenant
Eau_Rouge111's Avatar
Canada
349
Rep
479
Posts

Drives: 2009 128i and 2007 Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Mississauga, Canada

iTrader: (0)

I'm impressed....just fantastic work!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST