ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-12-2019, 01:10 PM   #23
Mo@BMWofFairfax
Retired BMW Genius
Mo@BMWofFairfax's Avatar
United_States
1971
Rep
3,040
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan321 View Post
These subscription-based apps are just a variant of something that's been around a long time, utility-based pricing; you pay for the features you want. But with the apps, you subscribe to the features you want.

Now that cars are a piece of software with wheels I think it's the direction the industry will go; whether we like it or not. It's the direction that the software industry seems to be going. A software product needs constant fixing and improvements. A company making the software needs a steady incoming money stream to do that.

A few years ago, Adobe moved to subscription-based products. It generated tons of negative comments from users; "I'm switching from Photoshop to Gimp." What was happing to Adobe was users would buy a copy of Photoshop and wait for 2 or 3 or more major version changes before they would buy an upgraded version.

Adobe made the switch in spite of the user comments and did quite well by it. IMHO, I think users did too; now all the Adobe products are getting updates to fix and improve things in a more timely fashion.

Originally computer software was never sold, it was given away with hardware, but you had to subscribe to support. For the most part, the software was useless without support. That's how companies got the money they needed to fix and improve their software.

Software products were sold for PC's when they come out. It's taking a long time, but I think industries realize there isn't a practical way to "sell" software.

Please don't shoot the messenger ; subscription to auto apps is the future. It will get interesting if the auto industry opens its "software with wheels" products to third party apps.
I don't mind having an auto subscription for software. BMW Is implementing subscription for hardware.

I don't mind the Adobe subscription though. I don't have to pay $3,000 for Photoshop. I pay like $8 or $10/month an get Photoshop and a boatload of other software.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2019, 01:54 AM   #24
LogicalApex
Private First Class
80
Rep
192
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW 530xe
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan321 View Post
These subscription-based apps are just a variant of something that's been around a long time, utility-based pricing; you pay for the features you want. But with the apps, you subscribe to the features you want.

Now that cars are a piece of software with wheels I think it's the direction the industry will go; whether we like it or not. It's the direction that the software industry seems to be going. A software product needs constant fixing and improvements. A company making the software needs a steady incoming money stream to do that.

A few years ago, Adobe moved to subscription-based products. It generated tons of negative comments from users; "I'm switching from Photoshop to Gimp." What was happing to Adobe was users would buy a copy of Photoshop and wait for 2 or 3 or more major version changes before they would buy an upgraded version.

Adobe made the switch in spite of the user comments and did quite well by it. IMHO, I think users did too; now all the Adobe products are getting updates to fix and improve things in a more timely fashion.

Originally computer software was never sold, it was given away with hardware, but you had to subscribe to support. For the most part, the software was useless without support. That's how companies got the money they needed to fix and improve their software.

Software products were sold for PC's when they come out. It's taking a long time, but I think industries realize there isn't a practical way to "sell" software.

Please don't shoot the messenger ; subscription to auto apps is the future. It will get interesting if the auto industry opens its "software with wheels" products to third party apps.
I don't think it is the future... I think manufacturers are testing it out because they are throwing everything out there and seeing what sticks... I don't think this one will stick (but I'm no oracle).

Adobe didn't need to go subscription software as they flourished for decades without such a pricing model. Their shift was heavily geared toward extracting revenue from hobbyists and non-corporate professionals who wouldn't upgrade regularly. With the new model, they can extract revenue without needing to deliver enough value to entice users to upgrade (the users can't hop off the subscription model).

What BMW is doing is similar to what they are doing with BMW Access and other experiments. Everyone in the industry is concerned that increased automation will so convert the driver to a passenger that people will lose interest in cars beyond pure appliances. At that point, they may be more inclined to "rent" them, but on the road between now and there how much renting will they be OK with it.

The more you can rent the more you can extract in recurring revenue and you have bean counters happier than a pig in... well you get the idea.
Appreciate 1
F32Fleet1418.50

      09-15-2019, 03:28 AM   #25
mbanck
Private First Class
70
Rep
160
Posts

Drives: Skoda Karoq
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Munich, Germany

iTrader: (0)

So as far as I can tell this is how it goes: BMW is putting in some hardware (e.g. front-facing radar) for baseline security reasons (pedestrian warning) into all cars. Then you can configure your car with ACC from the factory as an option which might use the same hardware; in this case you won't have to pay a subscription. Or you can buy the ACC feature afterwards in their Connected Drive store. From what I saw there, it is a one-off payment but no subscription (at least for now).

Same with the parking assistant, I guess most of the hardware will be in every G20.
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2019, 12:12 PM   #26
jcarlilesiu
Enlisted Member
9
Rep
48
Posts

Drives: 2019 X7 50i
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Chicago Metro

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan321 View Post

A few years ago, Adobe moved to subscription-based products. It generated tons of negative comments from users; "I'm switching from Photoshop to Gimp." What was happing to Adobe was users would buy a copy of Photoshop and wait for 2 or 3 or more major version changes before they would buy an upgraded version.

Adobe made the switch in spite of the user comments and did quite well by it. IMHO, I think users did too; now all the Adobe products are getting updates to fix and improve things in a more timely fashion.
My firm dumped Autodesk and Adobe when they switched.

I'm not renting software, just like I don't lease copy machines or company vehicles. Its an awful model and not cost efficient.
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2019, 08:56 PM   #27
GenXer
Lieutenant
United_States
221
Rep
422
Posts

Drives: BMW, Chevy, Hyundai hybrid
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: here and there

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I remember back in 1992 when I bought my first new Honda Civic. It didn't come with a remote door look/unlock until you buy a remote kit from the dealer. It was just a matter of simple programming. Turning the ignition key to ON/OFF in certain sequence, push buttons on the remote, opening and closing the door. Then it was programmed. As I recalled, this also activated the alarm system too.

You would have thought this would be included in the purchase price but Honda insisted their customer paid an additional $120 for these features. Now, BMW is doing the same. Making customer pay additional fees for items that are already on their car.

Flash forward 27 years. My, how times have not change!
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2019, 09:32 PM   #28
Mo@BMWofFairfax
Retired BMW Genius
Mo@BMWofFairfax's Avatar
United_States
1971
Rep
3,040
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
I remember back in 1992 when I bought my first new Honda Civic. It didn't come with a remote door look/unlock until you buy a remote kit from the dealer. It was just a matter of simple programming. Turning the ignition key to ON/OFF in certain sequence, push buttons on the remote, opening and closing the door. Then it was programmed. As I recalled, this also activated the alarm system too.

You would have thought this would be included in the purchase price but Honda insisted their customer paid an additional $120 for these features. Now, BMW is doing the same. Making customer pay additional fees for items that are already on their car.

Flash forward 27 years. My, how times have not change!
History is certainly repeating itself.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2019, 09:34 PM   #29
Mo@BMWofFairfax
Retired BMW Genius
Mo@BMWofFairfax's Avatar
United_States
1971
Rep
3,040
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
So as far as I can tell this is how it goes: BMW is putting in some hardware (e.g. front-facing radar) for baseline security reasons (pedestrian warning) into all cars. Then you can configure your car with ACC from the factory as an option which might use the same hardware; in this case you won't have to pay a subscription. Or you can buy the ACC feature afterwards in their Connected Drive store. From what I saw there, it is a one-off payment but no subscription (at least for now).

Same with the parking assistant, I guess most of the hardware will be in every G20.
Perfect way to cut costs, no? Just give every car every option and have the customer choose what they want and pay for it. That way, you don't have to have a million combinations of one car.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2019, 09:35 PM   #30
Mo@BMWofFairfax
Retired BMW Genius
Mo@BMWofFairfax's Avatar
United_States
1971
Rep
3,040
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
My firm dumped Autodesk and Adobe when they switched.

I'm not renting software, just like I don't lease copy machines or company vehicles. Its an awful model and not cost efficient.
But it provides a stable income month in and month out for companies.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Appreciate 0
      09-22-2019, 10:33 PM   #31
Darth One
drunk poster
Darth One's Avatar
United_States
3077
Rep
2,646
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS | E46 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Here’s a thought - don’t all subscription services have technical support for as long as you’re a paying customer?

So BMW, if you plan on doing this, we get a full warranty for as long as we have the car. Fair enough?
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2019, 12:36 AM   #32
Mo@BMWofFairfax
Retired BMW Genius
Mo@BMWofFairfax's Avatar
United_States
1971
Rep
3,040
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
Hereís a thought - donít all subscription services have technical support for as long as youíre a paying customer?

So BMW, if you plan on doing this, we get a full warranty for as long as we have the car. Fair enough?
That's a very interesting point. Does BMW start charging you after three years to fix any issues with the items that you've subscribed to?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Appreciate 0
      09-23-2019, 02:20 AM   #33
GenXer
Lieutenant
United_States
221
Rep
422
Posts

Drives: BMW, Chevy, Hyundai hybrid
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: here and there

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I just think it's wrong to charge customers for something that's already installed on their car. This isn't like Satellite radio or cellular/satellite phone subscription. This is like paying a fee to unlock a level in a video game.

Verizon used to charge a tethering fee to pair your phone with a tablet or computer. This practice no longer exist because people aren't buying it.

It's not like they offer you a pro-rated refund on portions you don't use when you trade in your car especially when you paid $300 for Carplay.

Then again, they don't offer refunds on extended prepaid maintenance either even if you never even use it once!
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2019, 01:12 PM   #34
Obioban
Emperor
924
Rep
2,269
Posts

Drives: 05 M3, 04 M3iT , 01 M5, 17 i3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2017 BMW i3  [0.00]
2005 BMW M3 Coupe  [0.00]
2004 BMW M3 Wagon  [0.00]
2001 BMW M5  [0.00]
Subscription software receives security updates, new features, patches, updates for new hardware/OSes, etc. These all have costs to the software developer. That is not at all what BMW is doing here-- they're charging you a monthly service to be able to use a feature on the car that exists either way (which costs them nothing).
Appreciate 1
F32Fleet1418.50

      09-26-2019, 03:24 PM   #35
Mo@BMWofFairfax
Retired BMW Genius
Mo@BMWofFairfax's Avatar
United_States
1971
Rep
3,040
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
I just think it's wrong to charge customers for something that's already installed on their car. This isn't like Satellite radio or cellular/satellite phone subscription. This is like paying a fee to unlock a level in a video game.

Verizon used to charge a tethering fee to pair your phone with a tablet or computer. This practice no longer exist because people aren't buying it.

It's not like they offer you a pro-rated refund on portions you don't use when you trade in your car especially when you paid $300 for Carplay.

Then again, they don't offer refunds on extended prepaid maintenance either even if you never even use it once!
This is a way for them to cut costs. Every car will have all the hardware required and needed to activate every feature that BMW offers. No more having to spec the car and having to order it. BMW doesn't have to order specific parts for specific cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Subscription software receives security updates, new features, patches, updates for new hardware/OSes, etc. These all have costs to the software developer. That is not at all what BMW is doing here-- they're charging you a monthly service to be able to use a feature on the car that exists either way (which costs them nothing).
There is a cost to BMW. The cost of the hardware. What this does is just make to easier for BMW to make money because they'll just put cars on the lot. It doesn't matter kind of of spec it is. You'll just activate what options you want. They may just have the regular car and the M Sport car but other than that, I don't see anything else that is required to be different.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2019, 10:31 PM   #36
GenXer
Lieutenant
United_States
221
Rep
422
Posts

Drives: BMW, Chevy, Hyundai hybrid
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: here and there

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
This is a way for them to cut costs. Every car will have all the hardware required and needed to activate every feature that BMW offers. No more having to spec the car and having to order it. BMW doesn't have to order specific parts for specific cars.



There is a cost to BMW. The cost of the hardware. What this does is just make to easier for BMW to make money because they'll just put cars on the lot. It doesn't matter kind of of spec it is. You'll just activate what options you want. They may just have the regular car and the M Sport car but other than that, I don't see anything else that is required to be different.
I can see it now. All cars will come with adaptive cruise and AWD, heated seats and heated steering. They will all be a part of the iDrive infotainment system but none of it will work unless you pay a subscription fee for each.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2019, 11:23 PM   #37
Mo@BMWofFairfax
Retired BMW Genius
Mo@BMWofFairfax's Avatar
United_States
1971
Rep
3,040
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S5 Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: DMV

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
I can see it now. All cars will come with adaptive cruise and AWD, heated seats and heated steering. They will all be a part of the iDrive infotainment system but none of it will work unless you pay a subscription fee for each.
That is EXACTLY where we're headed.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucBroDude View Post
TRAITOR.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bmw, features, fee based, subscription

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST