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      09-28-2018, 01:12 PM   #1
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Anyone install a Single Mass Flywheel?

Hello all,

I'm having issues (TWSS with a single mass SS flywheel clutch combo.
Harsh vibrations from 5000-5400 rip'ems. Worse while decelerating vs. accelerating. In gear and in neutral, clutch in and clutch out.

It has been returned to the manufacturer and re balanced, apparently the FW was ok but the clutch was out 6 grams. Re (!) installed and the same issue exists with a very slight Improvement although still unacceptable vibe in the same range.

Has anyone had success with a single mass FW in the s54 ?

Last edited by saintex; 09-29-2018 at 05:24 AM..
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      10-01-2018, 07:23 PM   #2
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Watch out not to explode your harmonic damper.
That's ended very badly for some with light weight flywheels.
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      10-03-2018, 05:13 PM   #3
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I recently rebuilt my bottom end and installed the Z4 M HD Clutch and Flywheel kit from Turner. Its basically a Sachs pressure plate and a JB Racing Lightweight Aluminum Flywheel. I am getting the same vibration and noise in the 5500RPM range and its unsettling to say the least. Should be noted I also installed the RE stainless pivot pin as well.

In addition to the vibrations mentioned above, the clutch has a lot of rattle while in neutral with pedal out. Its also annoying af... i did know this was going to happen prior to install, just making sure others are aware of this.

I’m not sure what I’m going to do yet about this vibration, might go back to stock... any ideas would be helpful.
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      10-04-2018, 10:53 AM   #4
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The sound/rattle is normal with the clutch out in neutral. The other stuff is definitely not!!


Installed mine a few months back, JB racing flywheel, and the racing sachs PX plate/clutch plate combo..


More like I tried to install it.. the kit that turner sells for the Z4m is actually the kit for the Z3m.. the PX plate differs by about 3 mill. Ask me how I know this.. big fuck up on Turners account. But after trying to find out what the heck was wrong, turns out that the flywheel (I didn't buy turners kit, just their throwout bearing/sachs px plate and clutch plate.. as I got the JB z4m racing flywheel from elsewhere. (thx Gonzalis


anyways, where was I? yeah so all the part numbers are different from the Turners kit!


The are selling the Z3M JB flywheel /px plate/clutch plate combo for the Z4M.. completely incorrect..


The Z4m has its own specific JB race flywheel part number, (after speaking with JB about the whole thing) (which is the one I have), and then trying to see where the stuff up was, turns out the correct PX plate for the Z4m (turners) is the e46 M3 one. not the Z3M one. ( youd think they are prob the same, they are not!)


Anyways, not saying that's where your issue might be, but mine has been AWESOME!!!! since getting the correct parts bolted up. Amazing connection, such a good feeling. def one of my fave mods. (I don't mind the Duke dry clutch rattle btw in neutral ), but mine is not a daily.


Might wanna look into that a bit further if your having issues.


I had help from Sean K at turners to sort the whole mess out, he was very helpful, even arranged shipping the correct pressure plate to Dubai for free.. well kinda they had to I guess as it was their F-up!. Good bloke that Sean.


Anyways, if need be, I can quote some part numbers..


cheers.. V

@Saintex, mine is going perfectly.
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Last edited by Vanne; 10-04-2018 at 11:11 AM..
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      10-05-2018, 04:22 PM   #5
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fW

Vanne,

is your Flywheel lighter than stock? Single Mass?
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      10-06-2018, 01:27 AM   #6
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Yep, single mass..



have a look here..
http://www.jbracing.com/flywheel-bmw7.php

Look for specific Z4m Fitment:
2004 - 08 Z4 M Coupe/Roadster S54 3.2L - 6 cyl., w/ 6-spd. manual

520-180-240 <--- this is the Z4m part number (the one I have)
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      10-06-2018, 09:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanne View Post
The sound/rattle is normal with the clutch out in neutral. The other stuff is definitely not!!


Installed mine a few months back, JB racing flywheel, and the racing sachs PX plate/clutch plate combo..


More like I tried to install it.. the kit that turner sells for the Z4m is actually the kit for the Z3m.. the PX plate differs by about 3 mill. Ask me how I know this.. big fuck up on Turners account. But after trying to find out what the heck was wrong, turns out that the flywheel (I didn't buy turners kit, just their throwout bearing/sachs px plate and clutch plate.. as I got the JB z4m racing flywheel from elsewhere. (thx Gonzalis


anyways, where was I? yeah so all the part numbers are different from the Turners kit!


The are selling the Z3M JB flywheel /px plate/clutch plate combo for the Z4M.. completely incorrect..


The Z4m has its own specific JB race flywheel part number, (after speaking with JB about the whole thing) (which is the one I have), and then trying to see where the stuff up was, turns out the correct PX plate for the Z4m (turners) is the e46 M3 one. not the Z3M one. ( youd think they are prob the same, they are not!)


Anyways, not saying that's where your issue might be, but mine has been AWESOME!!!! since getting the correct parts bolted up. Amazing connection, such a good feeling. def one of my fave mods. (I don't mind the Duke dry clutch rattle btw in neutral ), but mine is not a daily.


Might wanna look into that a bit further if your having issues.


I had help from Sean K at turners to sort the whole mess out, he was very helpful, even arranged shipping the correct pressure plate to Dubai for free.. well kinda they had to I guess as it was their F-up!. Good bloke that Sean.


Anyways, if need be, I can quote some part numbers..


cheers.. V

@Saintex, mine is going perfectly.
+1 Vanne let me drive his car, and it's smooth with no vibration from the flywheel combo. I couldn't shift fast enough. Vanne's car is a magazine-worthy track build, so there's more NVH than OEM anyway (mounts, exhaust, cage, seats, etc.). Shifting was direct and pedal effort was just right. I really enjoyed it - thanks buddy!

My 3.0i has a JB Racing aluminum single mass flywheel. It has a small amount of additional NVH on decel. If you're wanting OEM quietness, I wouldn't go for a single mass flywheel.
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      10-06-2018, 09:30 AM   #8
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I just went back and checked my invoice from TMS... Copy/pasta of the part numbers from the invoice below.

E36 M3, MZ3 JB Racing Lightweight Aluminum Flywheel

JB Racing
T#: 3771 Mfg#: 520-010-240

OEM LuK Clutch Throw Out Bearing / Release Bearing -- E46 M3, E39 M5
T#: 1314 Mfg#: 21511223582

Sachs Disc
T#: 349645 Mfg#: 881861999873

Sachs Performance Pressure Plate - E36 Z3 M3 3.2L
T#: 302269 Mfg#: 883082999792

Last edited by Sliktop; 10-06-2018 at 10:33 AM.. Reason: corrected a misleading comment.
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      10-06-2018, 09:32 AM   #9
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I should note, I have zero issues with how the clutch releases, it feels good. Nice and quick and I'm able to do the hard launches.. it's just the weird vibes at 5500ish RPM as stated above.

I wonder if it's the combo of my VibraTechnic motor mounts and RE Trans mounts that is allowing some NVH to sneak through.. i should go do some testing today and really focus on where the sound and shaking is coming from. I don't want to make a wrong assumption that it's from the flywheel...
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      10-06-2018, 10:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliktop View Post
I just went back and checked my invoice from TMS... Looks like i got the same flywheel... Copy/pasta of the part numbers from the invoice below. Looks right to me even though TMS labels it as MZ3, E46 M3, etc..

E36 M3, MZ3 JB Racing Lightweight Aluminum Flywheel

JB Racing
T#: 3771 Mfg#: 520-010-240

OEM LuK Clutch Throw Out Bearing / Release Bearing -- E46 M3, E39 M5
T#: 1314 Mfg#: 21511223582

Sachs Disc
T#: 349645 Mfg#: 881861999873

Sachs Performance Pressure Plate - E36 Z3 M3 3.2L
T#: 302269 Mfg#: 883082999792
Yeah, I did the same as you, but its not the correct part number for the flywheel.

the correct part number is 520-180-240.. (which is z4m specific)
and requires the other PX plate.

"Ok its confirmed by Dean from JB flywheels, its the e46 m3 pressure plate that fits, so 883082001243 is it. The other one as though IS for the Z3M s54" this is what came directly from JB. (a while back while trying to figure out WTF was going on..)


So the correct part number list for the Z4m is

Flywheel 520-180-240

Px plate 883082001243

and the disc part number is the same for all 3 types of s54 cars.


But as you said, id be investigating the vibration a bit further, I would imagine if there was a clutch vibration at 5500, it would prob be there throughout the range, not just 5500.. what your describing sounds more like a harmonic vibration? How are your box and engine mounts? And how is your guibo, and tail shaft bearing?

Lol Josh, was great to catch up with you and the missus a few times. Though I gotta admit that was one hell of a ride, that 458 you were fanging around the track.. awesome, just awesome car.. ... I am still looking for one, but would have to sell a house to be able to buy one. Slowly trying it on the missus
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Last edited by Vanne; 10-06-2018 at 10:41 AM..
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      10-06-2018, 09:38 PM   #11
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edit: I think M-cast has the same setup as you guys, with the other part numbers.. pretty sure he has zero issues either?? so the kit probably doesn't matter, as long as you have either one or the other, not mixed parts..
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      10-07-2018, 09:55 AM   #12
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The DIrty Laundry Details

2006 Z4MC (BSM) 120000km.

This is my second MC. I've owned this car 6 years.

Mods all done by me:

KW V3
SS Brake lines
Currently SuperSprint Race Cans (Tks Ariusen)
Strong Strut (Tks RobMCoupe)
Vanos Upgrade (Beisan)
Vibra Technics mounts (2nd set)
Rogue RSMs
Rogue transmission mounts
Evolve Carbon Intake/ Tune
Euro Headers (tks Donovan)
Pedal Haus pedals
Status Gruppe Carbon Valve cover
RPI scoop
Poly FCABS
Spherical Bearing RTABS
Geoff Steel Carbon Roof (Thanks Ariusen AND Geoff Steel!)


Oil Changed every year/8000km, Valve clearance yearly, compression check yearly.


That's my car's resumé for background.

I have done my clutch/flywheel on a previously owned 335xDrive coupe. Spec Stage3+ . All Good. Someone nailed me head on and the car died, but I kept the FW/Clutch pack with 400km on it.

Spec Stage2+ install on my Mcoupe went well. Until Test Drive. Very Harsh vibes from 5000 to 5500 RPMs in gear and out of gear clutch IN or OUT rolling Or stationary. Before the install there were no vibrations at ANY rpm.

After discussing with Spec they said "pull it and return it and we'll check it out, but usually an imbalance presents itself at all RPMs and gets worse at higher RPMs." So I paid for shipping from the Great White North to Bessemer Alabama $$$

While I was re installing the OEM FW/clutch I REPLACED the Guibo, it had small cracks that the master tech at my local dealer said were ok but I figured while I was down there in the dark and dirty place I'd change it. Note: with the clutch IN AND the car stationary the trasmission gears and output shaft/driveshaft aren't turning so they can't be a source of vibration.

With the original OEM FW/Clutch/Pressure plate everything was NORMAL. No vibes, nothing at any RiPeM.

I wait.

Spec Tech calls back. The FW was in balance but the Clutch (pressure Plate) was out 6 grams, not much he said. He balanced it to within 1 gram. Again he didn't think this would cause an issue but its possible. They shipped it back and mis-labelled the customs declaration so I ended up paying sales tax on it again.

I re install it and bam, same shit different day.

Dozens of emails to David Norton of Spec and after many denials and his claims of it can't be's and claims of it's just chatter or gearbox vibration he just won't return my money or my emails.

David Norton personally sold me this kit and it cost over 1000$, I bought from SPec cuz I previously used their stuff and I figured it's all good.

I don't know what the issue is except that when I remove the Spec kit the problem goes away. I just wish Dave Norton from Spec would return my $ .
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      10-09-2018, 11:20 PM   #13
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Sorry I cant help you with Dave from Spec mate, did you do any further analysis on what the issue might be? Did you use a new throwout bearing?
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      10-10-2018, 06:59 AM   #14
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Yup
New throwout bearing, and pilot bearing that I kept when I re installed the original FW/clutch.

I really don't know what the issue is. I can only guess that there is some incompatibility that causes the harmonic vibrations?
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      10-25-2018, 09:48 AM   #15
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Any further development Saint?
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      10-25-2018, 10:55 AM   #16
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update

I'm waiting to receive a new DMF/friction disc from Spec for installation. Clutch job #4
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      10-25-2018, 11:37 PM   #17
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mate i hear ya, hope it goes well.. i had mine out and apart 2 times..
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      10-26-2018, 03:05 PM   #18
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This sounds like a nightmare to get right......
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      10-29-2018, 09:46 AM   #19
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Starting out with the correct part numbers is probably a good start .... For me anyways.

Last edited by Vanne; 10-29-2018 at 10:17 AM..
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      10-29-2018, 05:33 PM   #20
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To be continued
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      05-01-2019, 06:54 PM   #21
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SPEC CLUTCH buyer BEWARE

So final update:

Don't do business with SPEC.

Recap: David Norton from Spec sold me a Stage 2 kit for my E86 Moupe.

What I received was a SS single mass Flywheel and Stage 2+ Pressure plate and friction disc.
Part Numbers:
Flywheel SB23S
Pressure Plate SB053HS-856
.

I installed and there was severe vibrations from 4900-5400 RPM

So I removed and reinstalled OEM and it all worked fine. I returned the kit to SPEC at my expense and they rebalanced the Pressure plate that they claim was 6 grams off. This is not much and should'nt be an issue (they said). They ff-ed up the customs declaration and it cost me more money to receive it.

I reinstalled their kit post balancing and it was still Shite. Same vibrations at 4900-5400 RPMS

Harmonic vibrations

David Norton wouldn't admit to anything being wrong and tried to blame it on gearbox chatter.
He also used the phrase ' I do this for a living....' 'Trust me'

He refused to refund my money after installing the parts and when I told him it was unusable he agreed to send me a dual mass flywheel.

I receive the flywheel and I cross reference the part number
LUK 415 0109 10 on LUK's website and I get:

BMW 21 21 2 229 015


Which is for an E36 M3, E36 Z3 with an S52 engine.

I call him on it and he repeats the I do this for a living and it works great spiel...Same crankshaft flange blah blah blah.

So at this point I'm like f%ck him OEM clutch is going is going back in.

Surprise surprise, not so fast cowboy.

I pull the exhaust, heat shields etc and find that something inside the bell housing wanted to leave in a big way...there's a hole in the bell.

Not feeling ANY SPEC love.

I remove the SPEC clutch/FW and find that one of the balancing weights THEY installed decided to f-off and got caught between the pressure plate and bell housing and promptly ejected itself through the Aluminium.

I reinstall the STOCK OEM clutch pack and it works fine. NO VIBRATION.

I will do a thorough inspection of the harmonic balancer and hope it didnT get damaged.

If you cross check the abovemost part numbers on the SPEC website it becomes apparent he sold me an E36 M3/Z3 S53 clutch kit

http://www.specclutch.com/cars/BMW/M3/1997/Single

He should have sent me this instead (but wtf do I know, he does this for a living)
http://www.specclutch.com/cars/BMW/M3/2005/Single



Below are pictars of pressure plate BEFORE balancing, AFTER balancing and AFTER losing a weight and of the bell.

He refuses to communicate with me
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      08-05-2019, 02:56 AM   #22
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Holy shit!!! just saw this now...
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