Is this the worst Blackstone analysis you’ve ever seen?

[RossBMWZseries]

So after 107,xxx miles, I decided to do my very first ever oil analysis. I did this on 10/20/18, grabbed the oil from the “middle” drain as I was doing the oil change. The results came back last night. I was getting ready to purchase a new soft top, respray my front bumper, and buy a carbon fiber lip for it. Well those ideas are out the window as they’re not essential to the performance of the car. After seeing the chart sent by Blackstone, I’ve decided this is a job I need to do ASAP. I’ll be purchasing the ECS Tuning kit. I’ve been reading on which are the “best” rod bearings out there, but can’t come to a conclusion. By best, I mean I want the bearings that will last as long as possible. I don’t EVER track the car. I do spirited driving quite often and hardly race the car, kinda grew out of that. Should I go with WPC treated bearings or the BE? BE are on the cheaper side and from what I was reading COULD be the better choice. I’m all ears. Thanks guys!

[GuidoK]

I dont understand why people dont change their rodbearings in s54 engines every 50k miles or so. Is that US ignorance? In europe this is common practice among engine specialists. In germany you can get this done for under $1400,- incl parts, so thats less than 3 cents/mile as running costs if you do this every 50k miles.

[Azeka1]

Did mine at 59K miles and agree with GuidoK I went with WPC and know a lot of other track guys that used them on their E46 with no issues.

Great discussion on the M3Forum on this very topic just a couple months ago: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=598773

[W///]

Did I read that right? The oil interval was 12k miles? If so, yikes.

[RossBMWZseries]

Originally Posted by Azeka1

Did mine at 59K miles and agree with GuidoK I went with WPC and know a lot of other track guys that used them on their E46 with no issues.

Great discussion on the M3Forum on this very topic just a couple months ago: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=598773

So after reading the 9 pages of that thread, I'm still as confused as I was. WPC seems good but overall, looks like the M3 guys preferred OE bearings.

Originally Posted by W///

Did I read that right? The oil interval was 12k miles? If so, yikes.

LOL. I put 12K because that was my last oil change as I wasn't driving the car much and not hard at all, not going to high RPM's. Typically I do it every 6-8k miles.

[GuidoK]

A longer oil change of course makes for higher metal content in your oil.
A blackstone report is only a sample of a moment in time, it doesnt really give an accurate state of your rodbearings. For that you'll have to get your hands dirty.

[Azeka1]

Originally Posted by RossBMWZseries

So after reading the 9 pages of that thread, I'm still as confused as I was. WPC seems good but overall, looks like the M3 guys preferred OE bearings.



LOL. I put 12K because that was my last oil change as I wasn't driving the car much and not hard at all, not going to high RPM's. Typically I do it every 6-8k miles.

HaHa - In my opinion, you'll be fine with either one. Good that you're performing the service and that is the main thing. While you're there, check engine mounts and other bushings as you can save time/labor by performing them at the same time.

[RossBMWZseries]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

A longer oil change of course makes for higher metal content in your oil.
A blackstone report is only a sample of a moment in time, it doesnt really give an accurate state of your rodbearings. For that you'll have to get your hands dirty.

I suppose I was using the incorrect logic on this one. Have to get my hands dirty regardless; as you stated, common practice and a maintenance item.

[StickMon]

Lang did mine and suggested/installed WPC treated and stock bolts.
He tested ARP bolts on some loose rods and found that the bore was out of round with ARP's suggested stretch.
To get the bore round he had to stretch them more than he was comfortable with.

[RossBMWZseries]

Originally Posted by StickMon

Lang did mine and suggested/installed WPC treated and stock bolts.
He tested ARP bolts on some loose rods and found that the bore was out of round with ARP's suggested stretch.
To get the bore round he had to stretch them more than he was comfortable with.

I see, that’s good to know. I was going to purchase the rod bearing repair kit from ECS tuning for about $745, however, I already have a few things from prior oil kits. I was going to buy everything I need separately. There’s 12 rod bolts, and 12 hex bolts according to ECS’s kit. Does anyone know the part number for this hex bolts as well as the self locking nut?

[StickMon]

So that would be this kit from ECS.
Bit of a puzzler. The bolts look like the ones in the front reinforcement plate, but there's only 8 of them (that you will need since they're one-time use).
Leaving 4 more bolts and the mystery nut.
You have to drop the subframe that the motor mounts sit on. Maybe it's held by 4 of the same bolts?
This shows 4 more. Same size but different part number.

[RossBMWZseries]

Originally Posted by StickMon

So that would be this kit from ECS.
Bit of a puzzler. The bolts look like the ones in the front reinforcement plate, but there's only 8 of them (that you will need since they're one-time use).
Leaving 4 more bolts and the mystery nut.
You have to drop the subframe that the motor mounts sit on. Maybe it's held by 4 of the same bolts?
This shows 4 more. Same size but different part number.

Yea that’s the kit. Front reinforcement plate.. is that the one shown in the pic below? Cus I removed those 8 bolts as I’m working on repairing the Steering hose leak. I guess now I’ll need to order those I don’t know, perhaps. I called ECS but the guy told me he COULD NOT help me if I didn’t have the part number. I told him realoem didn’t point out anywhere that I needed 12 hex bolts and ECS site didn’t have the part number. Kind of at a loss here. I think I’ll have to order the kit

[StickMon]

Yep. Those are these, but there's only 8.
I think the other 4 hold the subframe rail.
I buy 'em by the sack. Always keep 10-12 handy.
If you tighten them per spec, you stretch them. Only want to stretch them once.

Edit: That said, Lang reused my bolts when they did my bearings.
And I'm driving on blown dampers and one strut brace, so would I notice if the reinforcement plate bolts were torqued slightly under spec?
Probably not.

[RossBMWZseries]

Originally Posted by StickMon

Yep. Those are these, but there's only 8.
I think the other 4 hold the subframe rail.
I buy 'em by the sack. Always keep 10-12 handy.
If you tighten them per spec, you stretch them. Only want to stretch them once.

Edit: That said, Lang reused my bolts when they did my bearings.
And I'm driving on blown dampers and one strut brace, so would I notice if the reinforcement plate bolts were torqued slightly under spec?
Probably not.

This actually answers what I needed to know. I'm going to reuse the bolts this weekend once I repair the steering hose and put the reinforcement plate back on. I'm going to purchase the ECS kit which includes the 12 hex bolts as I'm planning on getting the rod bearings done by the end of the year. Thanks a bunch StickMon!

[RossBMWZseries]

So I replaced the power steering hose and while I was down there cleaning up the engine from the ATF leak and oil leak (CPV leak), I noticed the 4 hex bolts in question are indeed holding the subframe rail. So that explains why 12 hex bolts are included in the ECS kit. I still have no clue what the single collar nut is for. I was waiting for Black Friday to order the rod bearings kit BUT ECS has a Veterans special on all their “assembled by ECS kits”. The $745 kit is now $670 (today only 11/11/18). I guess I’ll just buy it now.

Again, anyone needing a ROD BEARINGS KIT, now is a good time to buy it from ECS for only $670, today only!

[RossBMWZseries]

So I finally had my appointment to have my rod bearings replaced. Drove 2.5 hours away from home. It was an Indy shop in Corpus Christi TX. They sounded knowledgeable, mentioning they do rod bearings quite often for the E46 M3. Bearings were bad, specially the one on cylinder #6. No damage to the crankshaft. Caught this right on time. Pictures shown below, close up on #6. Questions;

1) the shop recommended I don’t rev over 4K RPM until I reach 500 miles. I read somewhere that it should be 1,200 miles. What’s your experience on this and how long did you wait before going WOT again?
2) should I do another oil analysis NOW or when I do the next oil change in about 5k-7k miles?
3) I’m allowing the car to warm up even more now than I used to before. I try to give it enough time to reach normal temperature. Any other precautions I should take?

[StickMon]

Yep, those shells are seriously frazzed.

1) I don't think there's any run-in. Andrew Lang took mine to 7k rpm as soon as it was running.
2) Wait until the next regular interval so you have a fair comparison. Apples to apples.
3) Just let it warm up to at least 10:00 on the oil temp gauge. Nothing else I'm aware of. Change the oil every 7500 miles.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by StickMon

Yep, those shells are seriously frazzed.

1) I don't think there's any run-in. Andrew Lang took mine to 7k rpm as soon as it was running.
2) Wait until the next regular interval so you have a fair comparison. Apples to apples.
3) Just let it warm up to at least 10:00 on the oil temp gauge. Nothing else I'm aware of. Change the oil every 7500 miles.

Agreed. Lang did mine as well and I took it past 6k+ on a canyon run not too long after my bearing changed. My first oil change and analysis after the bearing change only showed 2ppm lead with 3.5k miles on the oil.

[The HACK]

This is no gospel, nor do I have any experience replacing bearings on my S54 (fingers crossed, knock on wood...etc) so take it with a HUGE grain of salt.

1. If the pistons were changed during a rebuild, strict break-in procedure need to be followed because the piston rings need time to "set." Main bearings, not so much. There are always people and builders that will tell you to not hammer down immediately, and I for one, would just follow what your builder tell you.

2. I think this first oil change analysis will be inaccurate because of very short fill (I assume you mean a post break-in oil change?). But for a rebuilt engine, it would be a great baseline. I'd send it in just in case, tell them it's fresh, 500 mile oil from post bearing install. It can't hurt.

But you'll likely get a lot of weird readings as the bearing sheds assembly lube or whatever it is they put on it.

3. I've always subscribed to the "don't hammer it until the oil is up to temp" theory, no matter what engine. That means 180º on the oil temp gauge then you can do whatever you want, otherwise keep it under 3,000 RPM and no more than 50% throttle opening.

As for this being the worst UOA result, I think it's the best UOA result you can possibly hope for. It caught an imminent bearing failure and saved you from having to buy a new block. The numbers look bad, the result was GOOD because the numbers looked bad and the UOA did exactly what it was suppose to do.

Should tell BlackStone to use your case as a case study of why people with M engines should pay for oil analysis on EVERY oil change.

[RossBMWZseries]

Originally Posted by StickMon

Yep, those shells are seriously frazzed.

1) I don't think there's any run-in. Andrew Lang took mine to 7k rpm as soon as it was running.
2) Wait until the next regular interval so you have a fair comparison. Apples to apples.
3) Just let it warm up to at least 10:00 on the oil temp gauge. Nothing else I'm aware of. Change the oil every 7500 miles.

Ouch, 7k+ RPM is scary for me at this point. Not saying Andrew Lang was wrong to do so immediately, just rather play it safe til I hit a few more miles. Thanks for the tips StickMon, I’ll do my next oil change in about 6 months then

Originally Posted by XMetal

Agreed. Lang did mine as well and I took it past 6k+ on a canyon run not too long after my bearing changed. My first oil change and analysis after the bearing change only showed 2ppm lead with 3.5k miles on the oil.

Any particular reason you did your oil change and analysis after only 3.5k miles? Tracking the car perhaps?

Originally Posted by The HACK

This is no gospel, nor do I have any experience replacing bearings on my S54 (fingers crossed, knock on wood...etc) so take it with a HUGE grain of salt.

1. If the pistons were changed during a rebuild, strict break-in procedure need to be followed because the piston rings need time to "set." Main bearings, not so much. There are always people and builders that will tell you to not hammer down immediately, and I for one, would just follow what your builder tell you.

2. I think this first oil change analysis will be inaccurate because of very short fill (I assume you mean a post break-in oil change?). But for a rebuilt engine, it would be a great baseline. I'd send it in just in case, tell them it's fresh, 500 mile oil from post bearing install. It can't hurt.

But you'll likely get a lot of weird readings as the bearing sheds assembly lube or whatever it is they put on it.

3. I've always subscribed to the "don't hammer it until the oil is up to temp" theory, no matter what engine. That means 180º on the oil temp gauge then you can do whatever you want, otherwise keep it under 3,000 RPM and no more than 50% throttle opening.

As for this being the worst UOA result, I think it's the best UOA result you can possibly hope for. It caught an imminent bearing failure and saved you from having to buy a new block. The numbers look bad, the result was GOOD because the numbers looked bad and the UOA did exactly what it was suppose to do.

Should tell BlackStone to use your case as a case study of why people with M engines should pay for oil analysis on EVERY oil change.

You may not have experience replacing your rod bearings but what you said makes perfect sense. I’ll just wait 1k miles to have some fun again and do the oil change in about 6 months (7.5k miles) with an oil analysis and follow up here then. Thank you gentlemen!

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by RossBMWZseries

Any particular reason you did your oil change and analysis after only 3.5k miles? Tracking the car perhaps?

No reason other than just my normal regimen of every ~7K miles or annual oil change. Didn't drive the car that much this year, but had come up on my annual oil change interval.