ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-02-2017, 12:01 PM   #23
mattfwalters
Second Lieutenant
mattfwalters's Avatar
Canada
226
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4MC (Sepang/Sepang/insane)
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
Well that ramped up fast lol. Looks like a lot of fun, great thread. Looking forward to your thoughts on the cams when all is done, and videos of this 9k rpm banshee
I can't wait to shoot that video unfortunately I don't think my impressions of the cams will be useful to most given how extensive the engine modifications are - but overall I'm hoping that it generally maintains the character of the S54 and just gives it a bad case of the red mist.

e: and yeah, I've said "well, that escalated quickly" to myself more than once in the past few months.
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2017, 03:50 AM   #24
Vanne
Down Under!!
Vanne's Avatar
United Arab Emirates
1593
Rep
4,293
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (4)

Glad you picked the 288/280's, anything more aggressive becomes a complete pain in the arse to get running right.
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2017, 10:43 PM   #25
mattfwalters
Second Lieutenant
mattfwalters's Avatar
Canada
226
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4MC (Sepang/Sepang/insane)
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (0)

Hahaha, crap.

I finally had some time to work on the project today. Realized after turning the intake cam 360* that I hadn't put shims in. Pulled the intake cam, cleaned up a few marred buckets () making heavy use of a stack of neodymium magnets, got shims installed on the intake side, and managed to get shims into the exhaust side without pulling that cam. Only two exhaust shim buckets needed cleaning up at least. Re-installed the intake cam, got everything torqued, and was out of time.

View post on imgur.com


I didn't want to bag the head again so I dropped the valve cover on as a dust cover. It's so badly warped that I can rock it corner-to-corner. Like a 4mm gap.

View post on imgur.com


Guess I found that oil leak I'd been chasing...

Appreciate 1
Taskmaster2463.00
      09-05-2017, 06:20 AM   #26
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattfwalters View Post
Guess I found that oil leak I'd been chasing...
Hmmm. I wonder if that's what is going on with the Moupe I just got. The prior owner was obviously skilled and had done the valves himself at 60K, and yet there is seepage at the gasket. Hmmmm. I'll have to keep that in mind when I do the VANOS this winter.
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2017, 08:36 AM   #27
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

I have a N52, and my plastic (OEM - brand new) VC was cracked. So it can happen.
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2017, 08:56 AM   #28
SaltyNC
Captain
SaltyNC's Avatar
368
Rep
870
Posts

Drives: 2006 BMW Z4M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NC

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Your post about the rod bearings has me a bit worried. I'm doing vanos work now, and plan to do rod bearings in the very near future. I do know about the ARP bolts, and some have recommended against using them due to the amount of force needed to seat them properly. I was speaking to an indy last week that said he replaced bearings on an M3 (S54) with the treated OEM bearings and ARP bolts, and the M3 lost the engine at the track within a year of replacing the bearings.

Is proper rod bearing replacement something only a race shop can perform? I was planning on using stock bolts, but leaning toward the treated OEM bearings.

Salty
__________________
2006 BMW Z4M Interlagos Blue/Black
Aux Port|LED Interior|LED Strip Trunk|Underseat First Aid Box|Stubby Antenna|Intravee II|BMW Oil Change Kit|Top Down Side Panels|Vibra Technics Engine Mounts|Rogue Trans Mounts|Engine Mount Bolts Upgrade|RS Windblocker|Euro Front Plate|M5 Illum Shift Knob|Supersprint Powerloop Exhaust|Gruppe-M Intake|RPI Scoop|Black Grills|19x8.5 ET35 F 19x9.5 ET22 R Sportline 8s PSS| Besian Vanos|CDV Delete
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2017, 07:14 PM   #29
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
Your post about the rod bearings has me a bit worried.
I'm not sure if I'm more worried or if I need to reach for the salt shaker. The reason car companies go to the expensive length of splitting conn rod big ends that way is that it makes it pretty much impossible to assemble them INcorrectly. Now here's this guy saying the opposite.
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2017, 09:18 PM   #30
mattfwalters
Second Lieutenant
mattfwalters's Avatar
Canada
226
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4MC (Sepang/Sepang/insane)
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Hmmm. I wonder if that's what is going on with the Moupe I just got. The prior owner was obviously skilled and had done the valves himself at 60K, and yet there is seepage at the gasket. Hmmmm. I'll have to keep that in mind when I do the VANOS this winter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
I have a N52, and my plastic (OEM - brand new) VC was cracked. So it can happen.
Yup. Definitely check the valve cover with a straight edge when you take it off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
Your post about the rod bearings has me a bit worried. I'm doing vanos work now, and plan to do rod bearings in the very near future. I do know about the ARP bolts, and some have recommended against using them due to the amount of force needed to seat them properly. I was speaking to an indy last week that said he replaced bearings on an M3 (S54) with the treated OEM bearings and ARP bolts, and the M3 lost the engine at the track within a year of replacing the bearings.

Is proper rod bearing replacement something only a race shop can perform? I was planning on using stock bolts, but leaning toward the treated OEM bearings.

Salty
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I'm not sure if I'm more worried or if I need to reach for the salt shaker. The reason car companies go to the expensive length of splitting conn rod big ends that way is that it makes it pretty much impossible to assemble them INcorrectly. Now here's this guy saying the opposite.
Yeah, I think there's salt to be taken with anybody's opinion on the "absolutely correct" way to build an engine. My guy's position is that you're going to get different clamping force on each side of the rod depending on the mix of (1) irregular surfaces not quite mating perfectly; (2) different tensile strength in the torque-to-yield stock rod bolts; and / or (3) inability to use a bolt stretch gauge to accurately set clamping force. He has a bunch first-hand of data* about big end roundness and bearing wear in raced S54s using ARP hardware and aftermarket rods vs. stock rods and stock bolts (or even ARP bolts). He had a very strong preference for the Molnar / ARP setup.

His explanation makes sense to me, and a couple of other S54 / S65 race engine builders on the web agree**. I think it all comes down to risk management and engine goals. I want my build to be supported by my engine builder, he believes that this is the correct approach for real safety, and the difference in cost simply isn't enough for me to worry about it overall.

It's worth noting that Andrew Lang's data on ARP bolts causing the big end to oval is based on a model - it may be correct, but a lot of people's experience of the OEM -> ARP rod bolt transition is that the top / bottom bearing wear on the rod big end disappears with their engines after switching to ARP bolts.

Bottom line: YMMV. :shrug:

* I didn't ask to see it, so this is effectively me assuming that the plural of "anecdote" is "data"
** Something, something, opinions and assholes, something, something
Appreciate 3
SaltyNC367.50
crfine88437.00
Vanne1593.00
      09-06-2017, 06:26 PM   #31
SaltyNC
Captain
SaltyNC's Avatar
368
Rep
870
Posts

Drives: 2006 BMW Z4M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NC

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Matt, thanks for taking the time to provide the additional info. Really appreciate it. Can't wait to see where your build is going next.

Salty
__________________
2006 BMW Z4M Interlagos Blue/Black
Aux Port|LED Interior|LED Strip Trunk|Underseat First Aid Box|Stubby Antenna|Intravee II|BMW Oil Change Kit|Top Down Side Panels|Vibra Technics Engine Mounts|Rogue Trans Mounts|Engine Mount Bolts Upgrade|RS Windblocker|Euro Front Plate|M5 Illum Shift Knob|Supersprint Powerloop Exhaust|Gruppe-M Intake|RPI Scoop|Black Grills|19x8.5 ET35 F 19x9.5 ET22 R Sportline 8s PSS| Besian Vanos|CDV Delete
Appreciate 0
      09-25-2017, 01:53 PM   #32
mattfwalters
Second Lieutenant
mattfwalters's Avatar
Canada
226
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4MC (Sepang/Sepang/insane)
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
Matt, thanks for taking the time to provide the additional info. Really appreciate it. Can't wait to see where your build is going next.

Salty
My pleasure! Happy to flap my gums about this (obviously); hopefully some of it is even useful to the community in general.

Weekend update: initial valve clearance set on the bench.



Took longer than I'd hoped, but I got a reasonable result:
View post on imgur.com


I wasn't happy with intake 5B but left it just in case I didn't have enough of any specific shim size.

(Note the empty slot in the shim kit in the first photo... )

But with a target of 0.25mm lash for both intake and exhaust, being inside -0.013mm/+0.029mm ignoring 5B (and still inside -0.021mm/+0.029mm including it - basically +/-11%) I feel like I did alright. I was planning to err on the side of loose, because I don't want to burn a valve; after talking to Minos at Achilles today, I'll be re-shimming the loose (~.279mm) valves to be slightly tight. The 0.04mm increments on the BMW shims is irritating but Minos' advice is that leaving more lash makes the shims more prone to jumping out of the buckets due to the more aggressive cam profile and the stronger springs, and that .22mm (but of course as close to the .25mm spec as possible) is fine for the Schrick 288/280 cam setup. Going down one shim size for each of the valves currently lashed to .279mm should make them all ~.239mm, which should be fine.

Some things I learned yesterday:

(1) The used valve cover I bought rocks on the head exactly like the other one did. I am officially afraid that there's something wrong with the top of my head.
(2) I totally, totally forgot about the fact that the cams aren't currently connected the timing chain. Valve-valve contact between all four #1 valves. Little surface marks but no real damage as far as I can tell, but that sucked so hard. Scared the living hell out of me.
(3) Using a cheap set of digital calipers sucks for this (I noted +/-0.02mm variance in measured shim thickness, which led to a lot of hunting around for the correct substitute shim... ugh). Ordered a good "absolute origin"-based set last night and hope they make the lash setting easier when I install the head... which is actually my next task.

I'll document the cam removal / installation procedure I'm using when I assemble the short block, also, since it seems to work well (fingers crossed) and is safer than the current how-tos without buying the BMW tool that wouldn't work with aftermarket springs / cams anyway.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2017, 03:01 AM   #33
Vanne
Down Under!!
Vanne's Avatar
United Arab Emirates
1593
Rep
4,293
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (4)

top notch Matt, good shit right there man.

i have an oem valve cover lying around you can borrow if you like.
__________________
2007 EuroSpec Z4///MC - Building/Developing Z4 GT3
Powered by
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2017, 09:51 AM   #34
TRiCC
E86 M Coupe
TRiCC's Avatar
262
Rep
400
Posts

Drives: Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SOCAL

iTrader: (3)

Absolutely ruined!
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2017, 09:54 AM   #35
jns_e85
Second Lieutenant
jns_e85's Avatar
74
Rep
264
Posts

Drives: '05 X3 2.5i, '06 z4M, '17 M2
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago Area

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Hmmm. I wonder if that's what is going on with the Moupe I just got. The prior owner was obviously skilled and had done the valves himself at 60K, and yet there is seepage at the gasket. Hmmmm. I'll have to keep that in mind when I do the VANOS this winter.
Gasket selection matters! I have done numerous VCG on a variety of BMWs and when I did the valve adjustment on my M I also replaced the VCG. At a friend's recommendation, I got the Victor Reinz VCG. After installing it, there was a slow leak in the back off one of the half moons. Annoyed at myself, I reinstalled it, and it continued to leak. Then I tried again with a high degree of James May OCD on doing it proper, anddddd still leaked.

Pissed I ran to the dealer and bought an OEM gasket, and wouldn't you know it, no more leaks!
__________________


2017 M2 - Camber Hubs, MPE, and some other goodies
2006 Z4M - Epic Tune / Eventuri CAI / Euro Headers / Stromung / FA 500 / AS SSK / Arc 8s
2004 Z4 3.0i - Gone, but not forgotten!
Appreciate 1
wdb4673.00
      09-26-2017, 11:23 AM   #36
mattfwalters
Second Lieutenant
mattfwalters's Avatar
Canada
226
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4MC (Sepang/Sepang/insane)
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanne View Post
top notch Matt, good shit right there man.

i have an oem valve cover lying around you can borrow if you like.
Thanks! I actually bought a second one from a local guy, and it does the same thing as the cover that came off of my engine. I'm starting to suspect that the head is designed to deform under the load of the head bolts - this might be why the machine shop explained that S54 rebores need to be done under a torque plate. I'll check everything again with the head bolted in (this should be straightforward with the ARP stud kit). Going to make a couple of calls to see if any of the shops I'm dealing with know the answer for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRiCC View Post
Absolutely ruined!
Right now it is And for the street... probably ruined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jns_e85 View Post
Gasket selection matters! I have done numerous VCG on a variety of BMWs and when I did the valve adjustment on my M I also replaced the VCG. At a friend's recommendation, I got the Victor Reinz VCG. After installing it, there was a slow leak in the back off one of the half moons. Annoyed at myself, I reinstalled it, and it continued to leak. Then I tried again with a high degree of James May OCD on doing it proper, anddddd still leaked.

Pissed I ran to the dealer and bought an OEM gasket, and wouldn't you know it, no more leaks!
Oh. That's literally the same leak I've been fighting for 3 years. I've always assumed that I'm doing something wrong - either not enough sealant, too much sealant, wrong torquing sequence...

Well, then. I guess I'll pitch the pair of Reinz VCGs I have in the garage and buy some OEM ones... but not until I've tried just once more since it should be much easier to get this done properly with the engine on a stand.

Fun related fact: a buddy did a bit of back-of-napkin math on the 7 ft-lbs / 10 N-m torque spec for the valve cover nuts, and determined that it generates around 14k pounds of clamping force, which is something like 75-90% of the yield strength of mild steel...

That doesn't take into account the fact that the gaskets are under the nuts, of course. But still.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2017, 09:22 PM   #37
GPower
Second Lieutenant
GPower's Avatar
Canada
61
Rep
211
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Not sure where's the "ruin" in the main thread. Well done, Sir. Subscribed. Keep'em coming
Appreciate 0
      11-06-2017, 10:34 AM   #38
comics69
Private First Class
France
80
Rep
169
Posts

Drives: Z4MC
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: france

iTrader: (0)

Nice Project!!! thanks for sharing
Appreciate 0
      11-07-2017, 03:01 PM   #39
mattfwalters
Second Lieutenant
mattfwalters's Avatar
Canada
226
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4MC (Sepang/Sepang/insane)
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (0)

Small progress this weekend: took video of the cam removal with clamps process, and installed the ARP head studs. Upcoming weekend will be head install, cam install, and maybe initial mechanical timing. I'm going to take video of as much of this part of the process as possible, since there's just not a lot of good video out there for working on S54s.

So here are some photos of at least one new thing:

View post on imgur.com

View post on imgur.com


...love those JE pistons.
Appreciate 4
Mirko182.00
ZAR4MC93.00
crfine88437.00
Vanne1593.00
      11-07-2017, 04:06 PM   #40
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

NICE, those pistons are wow!!
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      11-07-2017, 04:19 PM   #41
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Purdy.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2017, 10:57 AM   #42
RGlenn
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
30
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW Z4M
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Albany, NY

iTrader: (0)

Rebuild is looking great. You're making me jealous with how clean your rebuild is! Very excited to see the final product.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2017, 11:14 AM   #43
MeisterS
Rennfahrer
MeisterS's Avatar
43
Rep
197
Posts

Drives: E90 325xi E36 M3 & E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Motorcity

iTrader: (0)

You, good sir- deserve an award for this.
__________________

Current- Jerez Black E92 M3 | Arctic Silver E36 M3/4/5 | Monaco Blue E90 325xi
Past- AW Z4-M roadster| JB Z4-3.0si | '98 Accord V6 coupe
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2017, 03:10 PM   #44
mattfwalters
Second Lieutenant
mattfwalters's Avatar
Canada
226
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4MC (Sepang/Sepang/insane)
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC

iTrader: (0)

Thanks, all. It's taking awhile, but I am really enjoying the process. I hope it turns out to be as epic as I'm picturing.
Appreciate 1
Finnegan701.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:29 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST