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02-19-2020, 11:48 AM | #1 |
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Supra/Z4 M Coupe
Well I finally climbed into the Supra at the 2020 Toronto Auto Show and wow if that doesnt feel exactly like being in a modern M coupe i dont know what does! Small windshield, long hood, double bubble roof, tiny cockpit. BMW missed the boat by giving Toyota the coupe body. Looking down at automatic trans shift is a travesty though. Makes me pray for early spring as my Moupe is still sleeping under flannel cover.
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02-19-2020, 12:03 PM | #2 | |
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02-19-2020, 12:23 PM | #3 | |
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This also means that there's no damn way Toyota will offer the next gen 86 with anywhere close to 250 hp since it would steal sales from the base 2.0 Supra. So - the lineup going forward with Toyota would end up being a gen2 86 with 200-220hp (and a manual) or 2 flavors of Supra (analogous to the old 3.0si vs M coupe) but ONLY with automatics. I guess when the time comes to upgrade from my 3.0si coupe, I'll be looking at a 981. Good job Toyota.
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02-19-2020, 05:28 PM | #5 | ||
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It will arrive later this year in the Supra (Z4 Coupe) but I would think it won't in the Z4 Roadster. Which is an absolute shame if you ask us. |
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02-19-2020, 11:22 PM | #6 |
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One can only hope that BMW and Toyota will recognize that this platform NEEDS a MT option on so many levels. Standing by...
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02-20-2020, 09:49 AM | #7 | |
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And I was hopeful. Then they released the new Z4 and Supra with no manual. But I realized that while the Z4 was released in both 3.0i and M40i flavors (with no MT), the Supra was only out with the B58. I knew that the B48 was in the pipeline - and I convinced myself that if ANY of the NA market Z4 or Supra versions would have the MT, it would probably be the lower tier Supra. So I was still hopeful. But then came the news that, yes indeed, Toyota was officially bringing the turbo 4 version of the Supra to the NA market - but, still no MT. WTF Toyota? Really? Their story was that the "take rate" for the MT wouldn't justify the certification cost. That was the rationale behind not offering the MT with the big motor. And they've said the small motor Supra will probably only account for 20% of all the Supras. How could they justify offering both transmissions in the model which would account for only 20% of their sales if "take rate" was the reason for not offering it in the main seller? If anything, the small motor Supra should have been MT only - that would be the only way to justify the development/certification of the MT. Yes, I know they worked with ZF to develop a MT. That doesn't mean it's coming HERE. At this point, I'm sick of the rumors and supposition regarding either BMW or Toyota offering a MT in their cars. I'll believe it when I see it.
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02-20-2020, 11:02 AM | #8 |
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I've been driving for 47 years now and STILL haven't owned an automatic in anything. I'm grateful that my Golf R allows me to own a "modern" daily driver with a stick, and the Z4MC isn't going anywhere. These are probably my last 2 cars, and I'm ok with that.
It's a shame that there's no MT in the Supra or current Z4 (which I wish they'd have called something else because it doesn't look like any previous Z4 other than being a 2-seater roadster), but I'm not shedding any tears either.
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02-21-2020, 07:33 AM | #9 |
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You can now order the Z4 sDrive20i with manual in Germany. So keep crossing your fingers. I will keep my manual 3.0si E86 :P
https://configure.bmw.de/de_DE/confi...79,S08KA,S08TF
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02-21-2020, 11:53 AM | #10 |
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I don't understand the logic behind only offering manuals in lower powered cars
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02-22-2020, 04:42 AM | #12 |
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There's a fairly vigorous debate going on in one of the other Z forums I frequent with the topic being, roughly, "so what if the new Z4 only has an automatic -- it's a really good one." Interesting discussion.
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02-22-2020, 10:08 AM | #13 |
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There's valid points to both camps. Sure - for a daily driver, the automatic is fine, which I supposed is where 95% of the sales goes. If you track the car, then a dual clutch would be nice to eke out every milliseconds. But for most of us weekend warriors that only drive for pleasure and can't care less about track time, nothing can replace the 3rd pedal. I guessed the latter only makes up a tiny fraction of the sales.
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02-22-2020, 12:17 PM | #14 | |
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Some will not pay the extra up charge for automatic, obviously it's not the case in N. America anymore. Like my friend's wife said. "I paid $60k for this car and I have to shift myself? " :
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02-23-2020, 10:51 AM | #15 | |
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Being “really good” at one thing doesn’t make the whole experience. The pure enjoyment of driving needs to be INVOLVED. Otherwise you might as well just hog the left lane in a fucking Prius.
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03-01-2020, 08:04 AM | #17 |
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I haven't liked the Supra much either but lemme tell you, in person it's pretty stunning! It also had the biggest crowd around it at the auto show.
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03-09-2020, 04:42 PM | #20 |
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Way overstyled like most Japanese cars. Less is more! They just dont get it. As well I feel manuals are felt to supplement lower horsepower cars because automatics still sap some power. The B58 with a manual would be sweet in Supra.
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03-09-2020, 06:51 PM | #21 | |
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