ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Navigation, Audio, Bluetooth, Stereo, Electronics Talk
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-15-2014, 10:13 PM   #23
pungo
Colonel
pungo's Avatar
United_States
865
Rep
2,526
Posts

Drives: Z4MC-X3-35i-525i, Corrado G60
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MD

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkle View Post
Thanks, how does it sound after the flash?
The best description would be that it added more punch, though it seems to have lost some clarity. I did try changing some of the filterbanks, but with 55 of them and not knowing what they do, it was a crap shoot. I'm no audiophile, but do like my music to sound good. The same dsp is used in the e85, e86 and e83, so I'd assume the sound engineers at bmw used the 55 filterbanks to match the acoustics for each car. They must have put a junior engineer on the coupe LOL. There are a few loudness controls that are different in the coding as well.
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 10:41 AM   #24
funkle
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '06 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SF CA

iTrader: (0)

I don't know how this correlates to our cars, but I've found some posts describing power amp/speaker replacement in e46

And these, which describe bypassing DSP
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...fermarket.html

http://bimmer.roadfly.com/5series/me...w51/33631.html

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/blo...tallation.html

I haven't fully digested the info in these threads yet. Anyone have any thoughts?

The one installer I spoke with discouraged me from rip/replace, and said amp/speaker replace while keeping the head unit would be difficult. I'll call some more installers. I'm hoping I can get this to work. Who knows, maybe the Bavsound speakers plus a new subwoofer will get me there, but I have a feeling I'd be better off getting the first option to work.
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 11:32 AM   #25
bjbstewart
Private
bjbstewart's Avatar
United_States
9
Rep
370
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW Z4MC
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Why don't you, since you are in the bay area, swing by and hear my system with the Bavsound upgrade? That way you will be able to directly hear the improvement level and see if that is acceptable or not?
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 12:14 PM   #26
funkle
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '06 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SF CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjbstewart View Post
Why don't you, since you are in the bay area, swing by and hear my system with the Bavsound upgrade? That way you will be able to directly hear the improvement level and see if that is acceptable or not?
That sounds like a great idea. I'll PM you.
Appreciate 0
      04-17-2014, 06:27 PM   #27
antennahead
Captain
antennahead's Avatar
United_States
73
Rep
820
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MR silver grey
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Charleston, South Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkle View Post

Do these work with the BMW system? I thought there was some special impedance requirement.
All I had to do was splice the OEM connector (pos and neg leads) to the new tweets. I had the Bav sound upgrade, and "if" you have the top tier DSP system with the aluminum mids, the Bav system is mainly upgrading the tweets for you. I did an A/B comparison of the Bav mids with the OEM aluminum mids and it was a wash IMO.

I was thinking of doing an AudioControl DQL-8 ........ 8 amp level channel inputs........ do the front 6 channels and the subs ....... it will EQ flat and convert to line level..... then add an outboard amp for the fronts and subs ....... you can still allow the rears to be handled by the factory amp if you want them. Replace the front mids and tweets with the 4" Focal set and the subs with the 6.5 JL 6W3v3 in the factory location........... you retain the stock look and DSP Nav screen capability.
Appreciate 0
      04-17-2014, 07:07 PM   #28
funkle
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '06 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SF CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
All I had to do was splice the OEM connector (pos and neg leads) to the new tweets. I had the Bav sound upgrade, and "if" you have the top tier DSP system with the aluminum mids, the Bav system is mainly upgrading the tweets for you. I did an A/B comparison of the Bav mids with the OEM aluminum mids and it was a wash IMO.

I was thinking of doing an AudioControl DQL-8 ........ 8 amp level channel inputs........ do the front 6 channels and the subs ....... it will EQ flat and convert to line level..... then add an outboard amp for the fronts and subs ....... you can still allow the rears to be handled by the factory amp if you want them. Replace the front mids and tweets with the 4" Focal set and the subs with the 6.5 JL 6W3v3 in the factory location........... you retain the stock look and DSP Nav screen capability.
Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. Some kind of interface you could add to the existing system. What about an amp that will accept speaker level signal in addition to line level?

Would you use a 6-channel amp for the 6 front speakers? Then a 2 channel amp for the 2 subs? Sorry, I know a lot about home audio, but nothing about car audio.

Last edited by funkle; 04-17-2014 at 08:01 PM..
Appreciate 0
      04-18-2014, 04:43 PM   #29
antennahead
Captain
antennahead's Avatar
United_States
73
Rep
820
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MR silver grey
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Charleston, South Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkle View Post
Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. Some kind of interface you could add to the existing system. What about an amp that will accept speaker level signal in addition to line level?

Would you use a 6-channel amp for the 6 front speakers? Then a 2 channel amp for the 2 subs? Sorry, I know a lot about home audio, but nothing about car audio.
Yes, do some reading on the DQL-8, I think Crutchfield has a lot of info on that product. It will take the 6 speaker outs from the OEM amp for the R & L tweets, mids, and woofers (fronts) and sum them together, balance and flaten the response curve and give you full range R&L RCA outs for your fronts. Full range defined as 50 to 20,000hz, as the front woofers I believe only go down to 50hz. It will also take the speaker level OEM outs for the subs and do the same, giving you R&L RCA outs. The DQL-8 is designed to also do the summing and flat curve for rears as well, however you have to forgo that option since our fronts are 3 ways and not two ways. The product is designed however to allow for other options as the R&L speaker level inputs all have a "summed to main" button. You' put the tweeters in as mains, then the mids and woofers and select the "summed to mains" for the mids and woofers. The subs will not be summed to mains. Using this approach, you could then keep the OEM DSP fader set to it's middle position and you'd most likely get a small amount of fill out of the factory rears. With a high powered amp running the fronts, you wouldn't want much rear anyway to screw up the soundstage. I was going to do this myself, but once I replaced the tweeters and ran the pink noise through the system and adjusted it, I decided to just leave it alone, as it sounded pretty damn good for a factory system. I may come back one day and do this however. The nice thing about the DQL-8 is it is very clean and has all the system EQ you could ask for after the speaker level inputs have been summed and flattened ........ you'd be able to tweak the output for a great sounding system......... you would not need an amp with speaker level inputs. Check out this Focal BMW specific 2 way. I think this will fit our mids and tweets:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_091IFBM....html?tp=47095

John
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2014, 09:56 AM   #30
funkle
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '06 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SF CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
Yes, do some reading on the DQL-8, I think Crutchfield has a lot of info on that product. It will take the 6 speaker outs from the OEM amp for the R & L tweets, mids, and woofers (fronts) and sum them together, balance and flaten the response curve and give you full range R&L RCA outs for your fronts. Full range defined as 50 to 20,000hz, as the front woofers I believe only go down to 50hz. It will also take the speaker level OEM outs for the subs and do the same, giving you R&L RCA outs. The DQL-8 is designed to also do the summing and flat curve for rears as well, however you have to forgo that option since our fronts are 3 ways and not two ways. The product is designed however to allow for other options as the R&L speaker level inputs all have a "summed to main" button. You' put the tweeters in as mains, then the mids and woofers and select the "summed to mains" for the mids and woofers. The subs will not be summed to mains. Using this approach, you could then keep the OEM DSP fader set to it's middle position and you'd most likely get a small amount of fill out of the factory rears. With a high powered amp running the fronts, you wouldn't want much rear anyway to screw up the soundstage. I was going to do this myself, but once I replaced the tweeters and ran the pink noise through the system and adjusted it, I decided to just leave it alone, as it sounded pretty damn good for a factory system. I may come back one day and do this however. The nice thing about the DQL-8 is it is very clean and has all the system EQ you could ask for after the speaker level inputs have been summed and flattened ........ you'd be able to tweak the output for a great sounding system......... you would not need an amp with speaker level inputs. Check out this Focal BMW specific 2 way. I think this will fit our mids and tweets:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_091IFBM....html?tp=47095

John
Thanks John, I may look into doing this (after listening to bjbstewart's Bavsound upgrade). Any idea of how the JL Audio speakers compare to Focal?

One of the things I like about car audio is how immersive & visceral it is. You will probably never get the soundstage & nuance of a home system, but it is made up for in impact & sound pressure, which can be very involving in a kind of way that my "desk-fi" home system can't. I have a feeling the stock amp will never do this.
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2014, 12:09 PM   #31
donoman
Rookie
31
Rep
379
Posts

Drives: 03 Z4 2.5i 5MT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Santa Clara, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjbstewart View Post
Why don't you, since you are in the bay area, swing by and hear my system with the Bavsound upgrade? That way you will be able to directly hear the improvement level and see if that is acceptable or not?
Aw man, did you guys meet up already? I just got my M Coupe a week ago and noticed that the sound system is the pits compared to my 2.5i. I was thinking that maybe I had a subwoofer blown or something but I listened closely and they're just really poorly tuned. What the heck!!??
__________________
2003 Z4 2.5i
2013 FR-S
1990 911 C2
1983 Wife
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2014, 01:38 PM   #32
funkle
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '06 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SF CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by donoman View Post
Aw man, did you guys meet up already? I just got my M Coupe a week ago and noticed that the sound system is the pits compared to my 2.5i. I was thinking that maybe I had a subwoofer blown or something but I listened closely and they're just really poorly tuned. What the heck!!??
No not yet. It's on May 3. Here's the thread.

Yes, I really can't believe BMW would spec such a poor sound system. In comparison, my base '04 Passat GL, which is only 2 way I believe, sounds very listenable. Something has to be done.
Appreciate 0
      04-21-2014, 04:24 PM   #33
bjbstewart
Private
bjbstewart's Avatar
United_States
9
Rep
370
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW Z4MC
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by donoman View Post
Aw man, did you guys meet up already? I just got my M Coupe a week ago and noticed that the sound system is the pits compared to my 2.5i. I was thinking that maybe I had a subwoofer blown or something but I listened closely and they're just really poorly tuned. What the heck!!??
Yeah, join us - you can hear my BavSound speakers and decide if that is enough of an upgrade, or if you need to do more...
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2014, 02:02 AM   #34
antennahead
Captain
antennahead's Avatar
United_States
73
Rep
820
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MR silver grey
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Charleston, South Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkle View Post
Thanks John, I may look into doing this (after listening to bjbstewart's Bavsound upgrade). Any idea of how the JL Audio speakers compare to Focal?

One of the things I like about car audio is how immersive & visceral it is. You will probably never get the soundstage & nuance of a home system, but it is made up for in impact & sound pressure, which can be very involving in a kind of way that my "desk-fi" home system can't. I have a feeling the stock amp will never do this.
I'd take the Focals over the JLs, but JLs are no slouch. Yes, I totally get the impact and sound pressure thing. I did competition level systems in 2 of my cars in the 80's/ early 90's ........ those suckers rocked
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2014, 09:31 AM   #35
funkle
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '06 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SF CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
All I had to do was splice the OEM connector (pos and neg leads) to the new tweets. I had the Bav sound upgrade, and "if" you have the top tier DSP system with the aluminum mids, the Bav system is mainly upgrading the tweets for you. I did an A/B comparison of the Bav mids with the OEM aluminum mids and it was a wash IMO.

I was thinking of doing an AudioControl DQL-8 ........ 8 amp level channel inputs........ do the front 6 channels and the subs ....... it will EQ flat and convert to line level..... then add an outboard amp for the fronts and subs ....... you can still allow the rears to be handled by the factory amp if you want them. Replace the front mids and tweets with the 4" Focal set and the subs with the 6.5 JL 6W3v3 in the factory location........... you retain the stock look and DSP Nav screen capability.
I was looking at the Audiocontrol site. It looks like the DQL-8 is no longer made. They have a lot of different models. DQ-61 looks similar to DQL-8, but added time alignment, but no aux input. The aux input would nice, because you could always have the option of totally bypassing the stock system if you wanted. LC8i has 8 channels in, aux input, but no EQ.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2014, 04:22 PM   #36
antennahead
Captain
antennahead's Avatar
United_States
73
Rep
820
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MR silver grey
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Charleston, South Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkle View Post
I was looking at the Audiocontrol site. It looks like the DQL-8 is no longer made. They have a lot of different models. DQ-61 looks similar to DQL-8, but added time alignment, but no aux input. The aux input would nice, because you could always have the option of totally bypassing the stock system if you wanted. LC8i has 8 channels in, aux input, but no EQ.
I'd just do the LC8i and control any tweaking with the 7 band graphics in the DSP. The LC8i is going to sum and flatten the response curve for you to the amps. If you needed more control of the subs, add a bass processor between your sub outs and amp, or get an amp that has some sub processing built in.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2014, 04:41 PM   #37
funkle
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '06 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SF CA

iTrader: (0)

I'm actually starting to lean towards doing an aftermarket head like this Alpine It has bluetooth, iPhone & Siri integration. You can set the color to BMW amber, and even control it from the steering wheel. It will be a lot less than adding the amp interface and Media bridge. Probably will function lot better. The only real downside I can see is the looks of the thing. I'm also unsure how you could assess the car computer functions without the stock deck.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2014, 06:33 PM   #38
bjbstewart
Private
bjbstewart's Avatar
United_States
9
Rep
370
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW Z4MC
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
I have that head unit in my Porsche running the JL amp and Focal speakers. Really like all the features and smooth integration. You will be happy with that one...
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2014, 07:08 PM   #39
funkle
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '06 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SF CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjbstewart View Post
I have that head unit in my Porsche running the JL amp and Focal speakers. Really like all the features and smooth integration. You will be happy with that one...
Cool! Bring that one to the drive as well
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2014, 08:32 PM   #40
antennahead
Captain
antennahead's Avatar
United_States
73
Rep
820
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MR silver grey
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Charleston, South Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkle View Post
I'm actually starting to lean towards doing an aftermarket head like this Alpine It has bluetooth, iPhone & Siri integration. You can set the color to BMW amber, and even control it from the steering wheel. It will be a lot less than adding the amp interface and Media bridge. Probably will function lot better. The only real downside I can see is the looks of the thing. I'm also unsure how you could assess the car computer functions without the stock deck.
Check this out: Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.3

I think it will do everything you want. Sum the front 6 speaker level outputs into a full range R&L front channel line level outputs, a rear channel full range line level output, and a stereo sub line level output. Full crossover network capability, EQ and time alignment with a 31-band parametric equalizer on each channel. It's all configurable and controllable from a laptop. I think this would be fantastic for our cars. Allows you to keep the integration with the NAV screen and also allows for additional inputs including Bluetooth.

John
Appreciate 0
      04-28-2014, 08:22 AM   #41
funkle
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '06 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SF CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
Check this out: Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.3

I think it will do everything you want. Sum the front 6 speaker level outputs into a full range R&L front channel line level outputs, a rear channel full range line level output, and a stereo sub line level output. Full crossover network capability, EQ and time alignment with a 31-band parametric equalizer on each channel. It's all configurable and controllable from a laptop. I think this would be fantastic for our cars. Allows you to keep the integration with the NAV screen and also allows for additional inputs including Bluetooth.

John
That looks like a good solution. Looks like you may be able to bypass the BMW system by going into the aux in with a media player, and the unit will switch sources automatically what a call comes in.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2014, 08:30 AM   #42
funkle
Second Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: '06 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SF CA

iTrader: (0)

An interesting thread on car audio. The poster is basically saying that the sound deadening is the key factor in the whole thing.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2014, 03:42 PM   #43
elerner61
Major
elerner61's Avatar
154
Rep
1,106
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4M Roadster
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Mount Kisco, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkle View Post
An interesting thread on car audio. The poster is basically saying that the sound deadening is the key factor in the whole thing.
10 or so years ago I bought a 20ft roll of Brown Bread dampening that I've been whittling away at on 3 Miatas and now my Z. I've never done a full car application since all the cars have been roadsters (just doesn't seem to make sense, does it) but have judiciously used it on areas as needed. In my Z I've only dampened the cavities for the mid-bass in the kicks and in the sub enclosures to combat any resonance down low. Definitely made a big difference in the Miata doors and how they sounded. Not so sure if it's made an appreciable difference in the Z.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2014, 03:48 PM   #44
donoman
Rookie
31
Rep
379
Posts

Drives: 03 Z4 2.5i 5MT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Santa Clara, CA

iTrader: (1)

I was able to do the reprogramming and get the E85 settings into my M Coupe. It sounds MUCH better now. I will write up a thread on how to do it.
__________________
2003 Z4 2.5i
2013 FR-S
1990 911 C2
1983 Wife
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:37 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST