Upgrade to 10 speaker carver

[newbizie]

here is my upgrade using the stock speakers with 2,400 watt amp and headunit using existing wiring.

[Small Yellow]

Why do they always make aftermarket units so unappealing... I agree that the stock sound system sucks but man... Ive never seen an aftermarket system that looks right. The best ive seen is Chris Harris's 911 build with a retro system that looks not bad at all.

[psygnosis]

That looks so bad.

My car came with the upgraded amp and speakers and after I added the AUX I'm happy with it. It wont shake the car apart but it's imitations aren't enough to make me do that to it. The most I would do is replace some speakers and figure out a clean way to add a sub.

[Finnegan]

So, how does it sound?

Must have a bit of bass.

[StickMon]

I can see the necessity.
If my head unit or amp went Tango Uniform I know I could build a technically much better system for a fraction of the price of OEM, and I would probably go that route.
But BMW kinda screwed us with the odd shape of the head unit.
And I have Nav, which is even more substandard to Garmin than the stereo is to JVC, but that just makes it more complicated.

[VMZ432]

I like!

[ssummers]

I wouldn't say the stock system looks nice. But it does blend well with the dash. There are a couple of aftermarket mount kits, there is another one that looks a bit better than this one. But in both cases it does not blend as nicely as the stock installation.

Nice re-use of the stock wiring, I did the same thing on my build, really makes it a lot easier.

My wife would tell you that upgrading the system in her car is the best thing we have done to it, there is really no comparison to the stock system.

Here is my build thread:

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784148

[elerner61]

I think that the head unit is so "out there in the open" makes any replacement HU stick out.

One disappointment with my build (now almost two years completed) is I can't get rid of a slight whine that is noticable when driving with the top up. It seems to be coming in via the sub-connection from my amp. I'm curently grounding both my amps/DSP to the battery (yeah, a little dangerous some say). I tried moving the ground to the factory body ground on the left wall of the trunk but that didn't change a thing. I may try a different shielded RCA patch cable. Does anyone have a suggestion for a particular RCA patch cable they've used to quiet down some whine in a system? I've lived with it since I finished my system build (it really isn't bad at all), it is just annoying when I do hear it. I've got a few ground loop isolators (in my bag of "old car audio stuff" that we all have ) I could/may throw one at it.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by 6MT M3

Why do they always make aftermarket units so unappealing...

Becker has made units that look pretty oem for late 90's cars. (to fit in a z3 for example)
But they stopped with car audio.
The rest (jvc, alpine, pioneer etc etc) seems to be made specifically to stand out (instead of blend in ) as much as possible (maybe for ricers?).

I think as long as you have the hifi professional (with programmable eq and the 2 subs) it sounds reasonable.

I think the best way to upgrade if you don't have hifi professional is keep the stock HU and get an aftermarket multichannel amp and fit some decent speakers (even that is not so easy: BSW has fitting units but expensive and only for a few places. The rest is fiddeling and fabricating)

Some guys have fitted double din nav units with self made bezels, which looked ok (and seriously modified the airvents)

[newbizie]

Originally Posted by 6MT M3

Why do they always make aftermarket units so unappealing... I agree that the stock sound system sucks but man... Ive never seen an aftermarket system that looks right. The best ive seen is Chris Harris's 911 build with a retro system that looks not bad at all.

I know what you mean i dont like it either this was a cheap fix as I only had about 6 hrs to install everything becuase i was leaving for a 13hr drive up to VA.

Originally Posted by psygnosis

That looks so bad.

My car came with the upgraded amp and speakers and after I added the AUX I'm happy with it. It wont shake the car apart but it's imitations aren't enough to make me do that to it. The most I would do is replace some speakers and figure out a clean way to add a sub.

Understandable to each its own and it would be damn near impossible to install an aftermarket amp with this headunit because the signal is digital threw fiber optics, and all the speakers are to the factory amplifier, so i had to replace both but i would have loved to have kept the factory hu as it does FIT with the car

Originally Posted by Finnegan

So, how does it sound?

Must have a bit of bass.

the stock sound was amazing

On a scale 1-10
stock in my opinion was 8
Aftermarket 8

the only reason i did the upgrade is becuase the amp went out but i am planning on adding another amp and all new speakers

and bass is pretty much the same but i get the loudness of the stock system around the 17 vol level

Originally Posted by StickMon

I can see the necessity.
If my head unit or amp went Tango Uniform I know I could build a technically much better system for a fraction of the price of OEM, and I would probably go that route.
But BMW kinda screwed us with the odd shape of the head unit.
And I have Nav, which is even more substandard to Garmin than the stereo is to JVC, but that just makes it more complicated.

Yes the did.

Originally Posted by VMZ432

I like!

Originally Posted by ssummers

I wouldn't say the stock system looks nice. But it does blend well with the dash. There are a couple of aftermarket mount kits, there is another one that looks a bit better than this one. But in both cases it does not blend as nicely as the stock installation.

Nice re-use of the stock wiring, I did the same thing on my build, really makes it a lot easier.

My wife would tell you that upgrading the system in her car is the best thing we have done to it, there is really no comparison to the stock system.

Here is my build thread:

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784148

Your so right the stock unit does fit but its not nice.

Originally Posted by elerner61

I think that the head unit is so "out there in the open" makes any replacement HU stick out.

One disappointment with my build (now almost two years completed) is I can't get rid of a slight whine that is noticable when driving with the top up. It seems to be coming in via the sub-connection from my amp. I'm curently grounding both my amps/DSP to the battery (yeah, a little dangerous some say). I tried moving the ground to the factory body ground on the left wall of the trunk but that didn't change a thing. I may try a different shielded RCA patch cable. Does anyone have a suggestion for a particular RCA patch cable they've used to quiet down some whine in a system? I've lived with it since I finished my system build (it really isn't bad at all), it is just annoying when I do hear it. I've got a few ground loop isolators (in my bag of "old car audio stuff" that we all have ) I could/may throw one at it.

I actually had this same problem when i swicthed over, after doing what you did trying to find a better ground i found it was actually cross talk caused by the tweeters so i disconnected them and everything came in all clear.

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Becker has made units that look pretty oem for late 90's cars. (to fit in a z3 for example)
But they stopped with car audio.
The rest (jvc, alpine, pioneer etc etc) seems to be made specifically to stand out (instead of blend in ) as much as possible (maybe for ricers?).

I think as long as you have the hifi professional (with programmable eq and the 2 subs) it sounds reasonable.

I think the best way to upgrade if you don't have hifi professional is keep the stock HU and get an aftermarket multichannel amp and fit some decent speakers (even that is not so easy: BSW has fitting units but expensive and only for a few places. The rest is fiddeling and fabricating)

Some guys have fitted double din nav units with self made bezels, which looked ok (and seriously modified the airvents)

This is exactly my plan double din dvd and custom cover its acually easier then most guys make it out to be but like i already have my ABS plastic and mockup but like i said you cant add an aftermarket amp with the stock headunit unless the stock amp is working.

[ssummers]

Originally Posted by newbizie

the stock sound was amazing

On a scale 1-10
stock in my opinion was 8
Aftermarket 8

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here.

I am not an audiophile but I like loud music.

The stock system is not an 8 by any stretch of the imagination. It is 5 or 6 at best, bass is seriously lacking. You are saying the upgrade matches the stock system without the tweeters hooked up. What kind of cross overs did you use for the amp output? How does the amp match the speaker load? Some of those speakers have an odd/high ohm rating. If you matched the stock system with what you have you might consider tuning your system(amp gain, xover, etc) and see if it can come up to it's potential.

I would put our system as an 8 or 9, it absolutely rocks, bass punches hard, very musical and detailed when your are listening.

[newbizie]

Originally Posted by ssummers

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here.

I am not an audiophile but I like loud music.

The stock system is not an 8 by any stretch of the imagination. It is 5 or 6 at best, bass is seriously lacking. You are saying the upgrade matches the stock system without the tweeters hooked up. You might consider tuning your system(amp gain, xover, etc) and see if it can come up to it's potential.

I would put our system as an 8 or 9, it absolutely rocks, bass punches hard, very musical and detailed when your are listening.

Hahaha i probably should have clearified a little bit more...my ratings were based on stock systems without any added subs or aftermarket speakers.....they only stock system i have ever heard that sounds as nearly as nice was in a EVO X, i love ur custom box btw, but no the amp is probably running at about 600 rms at the moment becuase i wasnt sure of what the stock 6 1/2's could handle as they were getting somewhere between 50-100 rms if i recall from the the stock amp. the bass does rumble a little bit more but there is noway these 6 1/2's compare to REAL subwoofer ya know, but for pure clearity and sound there is noway i would rate the carver less than an 8 -2points for the lack of actual bass

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by newbizie

but like i said you cant add an aftermarket amp with the stock headunit unless the stock amp is working.

Are you sure about that? Obviously there are no rca connectors for that on the back of the original HU, but there must be channel outs on this thing. Or are they only activated by programming (INPA/NCS expert or so), or activated by a data control wire coming out of an OEM amp?

MAybe you can open up the headunit and solder some line out leads on the PCB. Most of the time there is a single chip amp in a car radio for which the line in leads are easily identifiable if you have basic skills in electronics and look up the chip's spec sheet. This is how I once made a 4 channel line out on a Peugeot HU.
In the end you can always use an amp with High inputs (speaker level). Not the most elegant/high end, but it works too.

[newbizie]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Are you sure about that? Obviously there are no rca connectors for that on the back of the original HU, but there must be channel outs on this thing. Or are they only activated by programming (INPA/NCS expert or so), or activated by a data control wire coming out of an OEM amp?

MAybe you can open up the headunit and solder some line out leads on the PCB. Most of the time there is a single chip amp in a car radio for which the line in leads are easily identifiable if you have basic skills in electronics and look up the chip's spec sheet. This is how I once made a 4 channel line out on a Peugeot HU.
In the end you can always use an amp with High inputs (speaker level). Not the most elegant/high end, but it works too.

yeah usually with every other car I have own with a factory amp the signal to the amp is analog bmw uses digital output with the carver hifi system.......

you are correct though with the the high level converters but in order to use those u would need signal comming from the hu to the speakers with this system there are not any speakers comming directly from the hu all the speakers are comming from the amp and my amp was fried I also have used these and they work really well if u want to retain the stock hu

[newbizie]

sorry for the extra long posts I just love talking auto-related anything

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by newbizie

yeah usually with every other car I have own with a factory amp the signal to the amp is analog bmw uses digital output with the carver hifi system.......

I don't think bmw uses a digital interlink with the carver system. They have used it in the past but not on the z4. I have a 2004 z4 with HIFI professional DSP (aka the carver set), and there is a digital input on the amp, but it is not connected, and if you connect a digital (spdif) signal to it, it does nothing (I tried, as I have an MP3 alternative for the cd changer with a digital output specifically for this purpose)
On previous systems it has been used, but that was on e46 and e39 chassis I think.

you are correct though with the the high level converters but in order to use those u would need signal comming from the hu to the speakers with this system there are not any speakers comming directly from the hu all the speakers are comming from the amp and my amp was fried I also have used these and they work really well if u want to retain the stock hu

I don't know what you mean exactly with this post. Do you mean that when there's an external OEM amp the speaker output terminals on the HU are disabled?

Anyway, if you don't have satnav and planning to use a double din system and can cleverly adapt the air vents, that's probably a very nice solution.
Parrot has a very slim satnav/stereo unit called Asteroid Smart which may be easy to fit due to the low depth of the unit (I don't know if you're going to reshape the air vents to still keep them working more or less.
I don't know if the unit is very good in usability and sound quality though.

[newbizie]

I cant speak on all cars but the carver hifi professional has no outputs for the speakers through the hu...I think I miss read ur last post I thought you were talking about using a high level converter to connect the rca cable for the aftermarket amp but yeah ill look into that dvd unit and yeah I considere myself fairly handy lol hopefully my vents wil still work somewhat after the retro fit

[newbizie]

you maybe right but im 90% positive the signal is digital but im only going by the pin out wiring diagram for the amp I have only been in this car for a few months and my first bmw u guys have alot more knowledge about these cars than I do thats why I signed up hahahaha but ill take a deeper look into it tomorrow

[GuidoK]

I think that the amp gets its signal by the pins that are normally used to drive the speakers.
This is a photo of my my connector going to the HU:


The connector is divided into 3 blocks: A block is the big one B block the small white one and C the small black one.

Here is a BM54 pinout schematic:


As you can see A block has a lot of wires going to them, also with my Carver system.
I dont have a better picture, but most of these wires obviously go to the HU speaker out terminals.
There is no digital audio pin on A block

My AMP connector looks like this:

The big terminals are obviosly for the power supply and the speaker out. The small ones are used for the different inputs.
If it was digital it would have had less connector inputs. As I said the coax connector is not used/connected.

I don't know if the HU also correctly works without an amp, or that it has to be programmed (in INPA or PROGMAN) to do so. There is of course an Ibus connection between the amp and hu, so it may be that the hu doesn't give a signal at all without the communication from the amp.
Also I don't know the level of the HU outputs. It may be that they are at full speaker level (and that the amp has high inputs), but I've also seen systems (peugeot) where the HU can be programmed to give high outputs or line outputs on the same terminals.
But in both cases the internal line signal (in the HU) goes through an amplifier chip/circuit, which is obviously less 'high end'.
The only thing I don't know is how the volume is controlled.
It could be internally in the HU (the line signal before the amp chip is already volume controlled; this is the most probable I think), or it could be controlled by the HU's amp chip/circuit, or it could be controlled in the seperate amp in the boot.

[ssummers]

newbizie, can you tell us how you have it hooked up? How many channels off the amp and what are they driving? Did you install crossovers?

[GuidoK]

I haven't hooked up anything (exept swapping the 6cd changer for a maintronic cp600bmw sdcard MP3 player).

I use the stock Hifi professional DSP system (stock HU, stock navscreen, stock LEAR dsp amp, so option code S677A (hifi dsp), S672A (6cd changer) and S609A (nav prof) and I'm happy with it

I just took it apart to see how it works
And my conclusion was that all z4's that have the DSP option are equipped with the analog DSP system.
I've never seen a z4 with the digital coax cable present/connected to the amp.

If you want to see what options your car has (factory installed) you can check it with your VIN:
http://www.bmwarchiv.de/vin/

[newbizie]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I haven't hooked up anything (exept swapping the 6cd changer for a maintronic cp600bmw sdcard MP3 player).

I use the stock Hifi professional DSP system (stock HU, stock navscreen, stock LEAR dsp amp, so option code S677A (hifi dsp), S672A (6cd changer) and S609A (nav prof) and I'm happy with it

I just took it apart to see how it works
And my conclusion was that all z4's that have the DSP option are equipped with the analog DSP system.
I've never seen a z4 with the digital coax cable present/connected to the amp.

If you want to see what options your car has (factory installed) you can check it with your VIN:
http://www.bmwarchiv.de/vin/

your right Guidok the fiber I was refering to is acutally a coax...I looked at the pin out and it says "radio af signal" is through pins 9,17, and 30 I don't know if its a usable signal but it is a signal lol