Working With Carver Subs.....

[MHeavNC]

OK.. I got Chris Fine's old amp from his M Coupe coded to my wife's 3.0i.. It now sounds fantastic!! Before, it sounded poor in both our cars.. This tells me a few things..

1. When an amp is coded to my M Coupe, it will sound poor in both cars.
2. When an amp is coded to my wife's 3.0i Roadster, it will sound great in both
cars.

I had some long conversations with the Tech and SA and we have come to some possible conclusions.. He said that he knows that BMW has had coding differences between Coupes and Roadsters. (even with the same systems) He knows this to be the case with newer 6 series cars.. He said that he feels that Roadsters get more powerful audio systems due to the fact that you need it when rolling at 70 MPH with the top down.. With respect to our Z4s, he feels that the Coupe gets coding that scales back the power.. The problem is that the Carver subs need this power, and sound like chit without it!

He also said you can't trick the software into thinking that my Coupe was a Roadster.. So basically I have to make sure they never code the amp that is in my Coupe.. The computer will ask for it if I ever need anything else programmed or reset..

Both my cars sound good now, so I will take that as a win!!

Currently my wife's original amp is in my car and sounds great.. Chris Fine's old amp is now in my wife's car and sounds great (after coding).. My warranty amp replacement is in my closet and would sound like crap in both cars since it it currently coded to my M Coupe.. My brain is fried, and it is time for a beer!!

[mousitch]

After talking to MHeavNC I think we may have a problem. Hopefully I can convince my dealer to recode my amp to a non-nav roaster code. Just dont see him going fot that. Or i could bitch more and get a new amp and still have the same low power low volume distortion problem in back with the coupe coding. UGH

[MHeavNC]

Originally Posted by mousitch

After talking to MHeavNC I think we may have a problem. Hopefully I can convince my dealer to recode my amp to a non-nav roaster code. Just dont see him going fot that. Or i could bitch more and get a new amp and still have the same low power low volume distortion problem in back with the coupe coding. UGH

That is the problem.. As far as I know, they can't do that.. Your amp would have to be physically installed in to a non navi roadster with the top hi fi system to be coded.. I asked them if they could trick it, and they said no.. Then it would have to be switched into your car..

Since I haven't heard your system, I can't say for sure that you have the same exact problem I have,.... but I am leaning that way.. Have you ever heard a roadster's top hi fi premium system?

[gtMc]

Anyone that has a roadster near north nj area and wants to let me borrow your car to code my coupe amp, there could be a LOT of beer in it for you.... or Macallan.... you pick. I want to try this code swap on my amp too.

[MHeavNC]

Offering Macallan? Damn, he is serious!!

[antennahead]

I think it might be more than just a power issue, I bet they've done some messing with the EQ because the Coupe is a different environment than the roadster. The front kick panel woofers put out a lot of the bottom end in my car, with the Carver subs adding low punch like bass drums. Even with less power to the Carver's, the front woofers should be putting out some decent bottom, unless they've messed with the EQ and power to those as well. Regardless, sounds like you've solved the issue. I know my system sounds very good for a factory system, and it's loud and deep. It has TOO much bass when set "flat". My friend who has a 2007 Z4 M Coupe was amazed when I demo'ed it for him. His Coupe apparently sounds just like yours did.

John

[MHeavNC]

Thanks for your post John.. If your friend was blown away, I am almost certain his sounds like mine did.. You are probably right about the EQ settings.. Before it sounded like my mom's 85 Ford Country Squire.. Now it is on par with some of the better factory systems that I have heard.. I can just crank it up!!!! Only the mids are lacking a bit.. I may have to get the Stage 1 BSW upgrade.. Maybe two of them.. Gotta keep the Honey Badger on the Honey side, or I will be sleeping on the couch!

BTW, this forum ROCKS!!

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by MHeavNC

Thanks for your post John.. If your friend was blown away, I am almost certain his sounds like mine did.. You are probably right about the EQ settings.. Before it sounded like my mom's 85 Ford Country Squire.. Now it is on par with some of the better factory systems that I have heard.. I can just crank it up!!!! Only the mids are lacking a bit.. I may have to get the Stage 1 BSW upgrade.. Maybe two of them.. Gotta keep the Honey Badger on the Honey side, or I will be sleeping on the couch!

BTW, this forum ROCKS!!

I did the stage 1 and I am happy with the result. The mids are nice, but the amount of improvement is less with the upgraded mids in the Top Hi Carver system versus the regular mids. The silk dome tweeters are a definite upgrade though. I'm glad you've got your bass back Now if you can keep some zealous dealership tech from re-programming your amp next time you're having any work done you should be set

[mousitch]

Originally Posted by MHeavNC

That is the problem.. As far as I know, they can't do that.. Your amp would have to be physically installed in to a non navi roadster with the top hi fi system to be coded.. I asked them if they could trick it, and they said no.. Then it would have to be switched into your car..

Since I haven't heard your system, I can't say for sure that you have the same exact problem I have,.... but I am leaning that way.. Have you ever heard a roadster's top hi fi premium system?

Yep. Had a 2006 z4m roadster before this one so I know the diff. Mine had nav. Totaled it. Wish I would have snagged the amp out of the back.

[mousitch]

Im just gonna say fuck it and drive it. Let the sound of the Gruppe M and the eisenmanns be my stereo.

[gtMc]

I am double posting this because it directly pertains to the issue in this thread:

"Top-HiFi Amplifier: With regard to its functionality, the Top-HiFi amplifier corresponds to the previous DSP amplifier as already used in other model series. The special features on the E85 are the two high voltage output stages (30 V) for the Carver woofers... . . . ...Due to the greater diaphragm displacement Carver woofers (low-range speakers) require a higher voltage supply than conventional speakers. A special DSP amplifier with high voltage output stages (30 Vrms) is required for the Top-HiFi audio system."
taken from: http://www.billswebspace.com/A18%20Amplifier.htm

I think this is further proof that the amp is probably coded differently for an e85 vs an e86, with the e86 coding lacking the right amount of power.

would be great to swap amps with an e85 for 10 minutes to confirm again what MHeavNC did. if it does work, then off to get it recoded. somehow. Macallan anyone?

[RichardTS]

Originally Posted by antennahead

From what i have read, there is a lot of overlap in the frequency ranges and crossovers of these speakers. The front mids go from 100hz to 10,000hz. The kick panel woofers go from 50hz to 500hz. The Carver subs from 30hz to 150hz .............. I think this is a major cause of the muddy bottom. When I dialed back the 80hz and 200hz eq sliders, and faded it slightly towards the front, it actually started sounding good. The BSW mids also helped clean up the bass some, as the mid bass notes and overtones of the fundamental bass notes were cleaner.

Truly a fascinating thread. Dare I say that this is truly a mixed bag. I haven't gone to the lengths you have In my house i listen to everything flat (my preamp doesn't even have tone controls) and have done so for years While i know better than to trust my ear against instrument, the story In my 2006 roadster is a bit different. If I am sitting still w/o the engine running a well recorded, original CD sounds great with everything on both equalizer and tone controls dead flat and DSP off. When running down the road, the sound is a bit thin. So I kick up the 80 Hz by 1-2 notches and we're good.

I wonder if that amp might have servo control that is adjustable with coding and that might be a cause of flabby bass. Having this capacity in the amp might allow BMW have some enclosure volume flexibility as they could, within limits, adjust the Q of the subwoofer.

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by RichardTS

Truly a fascinating thread. Dare I say that this is truly a mixed bag. I haven't gone to the lengths you have In my house i listen to everything flat (my preamp doesn't even have tone controls) and have done so for years While i know better than to trust my ear against instrument, the story In my 2006 roadster is a bit different. If I am sitting still w/o the engine running a well recorded, original CD sounds great with everything on both equalizer and tone controls dead flat and DSP off. When running down the road, the sound is a bit thin. So I kick up the 80 Hz by 1-2 notches and we're good.

I wonder if that amp might have servo control that is adjustable with coding and that might be a cause of flabby bass. Having this capacity in the amp might allow BMW have some enclosure volume flexibility as they could, within limits, adjust the Q of the subwoofer.

I definitely think something is going on dependent on speed and top down, etc. I did get into the hidden menu and dialed back the speed dependent volume control to the lowest seting of "1" (off is not an option), this helped out the sound a great deal. All I know is that if left "flat", on my car I have too much bass............... and I love good bottom end, so this is not a case of me preferring a "thin" sound

[RichardTS]

Originally Posted by antennahead

I definitely think something is going on dependent on speed and top down, etc. I did get into the hidden menu and dialed back the speed dependent volume control to the lowest seting of "1" (off is not an option), this helped out the sound a great deal. All I know is that if left "flat", on my car I have too much bass............... and I love good bottom end, so this is not a case of me preferring a "thin" sound

I never got that from your post. And your comment about the volume compensation reminded me that I had turned mine down to 1 about 3 years (via the secret menus) and had simply forgotten that. I would have liked to turn it all the way off.

Anyway a very interesting thread. There has to be something going on under the covers because, while each person's hearing is different it's not as different as I have been reading here. One person says they have no bass and other folks have too much. The disparity in the comments is just too wide. And most of the folks making them sound like they have a healthy audio interest.

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by RichardTS

I never got that from your post. And your comment about the volume compensation reminded me that I had turned mine down to 1 about 3 years (via the secret menus) and had simply forgotten that. I would have liked to turn it all the way off.

Anyway a very interesting thread. There has to be something going on under the covers because, while each person's hearing is different it's not as different as I have been reading here. One person says they have no bass and other folks have too much. The disparity in the comments is just too wide. And most of the folks making them sound like they have a healthy audio interest.

Very true, and having sat in my friends 2007 Z4M Coupe, the difference was immediately noticable. The roadster came first, and the Carver system was designed for it. I doubt BMW when back to him to tweak the Coupe equilization.

[RichardTS]

Originally Posted by antennahead

Very true, and having sat in my friends 2007 Z4M Coupe, the difference was immediately noticable. The roadster came first, and the Carver system was designed for it. I doubt BMW when back to him to tweak the Coupe equilization.

Owning a roadster, I can say that the sound is different when the top is down, when top is up with windows closed and when top is down but windows are up. I think it has to do with reflectivity.

Come to think of it there are three possible memory settings on the equalizer. Coincidence?

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by RichardTS

Owning a roadster, I can say that the sound is different when the top is down, when top is up with windows closed and when top is down but windows are up. I think it has to do with reflectivity.

Come to think of it there are three possible memory settings on the equalizer. Coincidence?

Probably not a coincidence, allows you to tweak for all three possibilities. I honestly think the system recognizes when the top is up versus down and tweaks the EQ accordingly, then again, I could be imagining things I tend to listen very loud (probably a result of playing guitar in bands for years, but I actually still have very good hearing), and at loud volumes there is less tendancy to need "bass boost" for example, whereas at lower volume settings some boost is needed to fill out the sound.

[RichardTS]

I routinely take a 450 mile road trip in mine. Whenever I leave the volume is not very high. By the time I have gone about 100 miles I have it really cranking and the bass is much better. I sometimes wind up with it flat at that level. And sometimes I tweak it with the tone controls usually by only one click.

BTW, did you notice that, although the equalizer is source independent, the tone controls are not-the settings for each source are remembered for that source.

[Abyss]

Hi, I just bought a 08 Z4M coupe with sat nav few weeks ago. I found this thread and it is exactly the same problem with my car. Can't stand the bass anymore but don't have the luxury to swap amp with anyone. Does anyone know if I can hook up an aftermarket amp to solve the M coupe coding issue?

[elerner61]

The quick answer to your question is "No". The head unit in your dash communicates digitally to the multi-channel amplifier in your hatch. You can't just insert another standard amplifier in place of the BMW amplifier (that would be too simple and obviate the need for all these nifty discussions). Welcome to the world of BMW audio.

[gtMc]

Originally Posted by Abyss

Hi, I just bought a 08 Z4M coupe with sat nav few weeks ago. I found this thread and it is exactly the same problem with my car. Can't stand the bass anymore but don't have the luxury to swap amp with anyone. Does anyone know if I can hook up an aftermarket amp to solve the M coupe coding issue?

Also, if you are up to trying to recode the amp yourself, you could try that route instead of an amp swap. Outlined in the other thread we have on the topic here:
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=656683
(could skip to post 60 where the problem starts to get easily solved.)

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by gtMc

Also, if you are up to trying to recode the amp yourself, you could try that route instead of an amp swap. Outlined in the other thread we have on the topic here:
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=656683
(could skip to post 60 where the problem starts to get easily solved.)

My friend finally got his recoded, said it was a big improvement. On a slightly different note, I bought a spectrum analyzer APP for my iPad for $2.99 ............ damn thing works great! 1/3 octave, 1/6, and full analysis. Ran pink noise off a Stereophile test CD through the system and reworked the graphics .............. system sounds much better now. A few months back I put the stock aluminum mid-ranges back in (upgrade over the non-carver system), and I think I prefer them over the stage 1 mids.