Who has Bass in their Z?

[bol]

Originally Posted by Hdoan86

Bol...Were you able to fit the tweeters in its original spot in the car as well as the 4" speakers in the door?

tweeters are in the original spot, the stock 4" is disconnected and unused.

[ShakyDog]

Here is what is in mine:




Steve

[HaiDef]

Originally Posted by bol

tweeters are in the original spot, the stock 4" is disconnected and unused.

Hmm i could go the 2 way route then? I saw a 3 way kit from focal access that had 4inch mids in the doors but i was trying to figure out if the huge manget from the images would fit the door clearance.

Im trying to figure out if the Stock carver amp will have enough juice for the speaker replacement up front. I would like to replace the 2 mids in the rear seat too and unplug the subwoofer.

What is your take on this since you seem like you know what youre talking about?

[bol]

Originally Posted by Hdoan86

Hmm i could go the 2 way route then? I saw a 3 way kit from focal access that had 4inch mids in the doors but i was trying to figure out if the huge manget from the images would fit the door clearance.

Im trying to figure out if the Stock carver amp will have enough juice for the speaker replacement up front. I would like to replace the 2 mids in the rear seat too and unplug the subwoofer.

What is your take on this since you seem like you know what youre talking about?

You could do a 3 way but in such a small cabin it would be purely for sound quality. I wouldn't bother with the Focal Access. Having had them before I wasn't very impressed and in the Focal line I wouldn't get anything lower than the polykevlar. At which point the price range starts increasing dramatically and a high quality amplifier is required.

The rear mids are very difficult to get to and you're not going to be able to get much out of such a small speaker. Mine are disconnected. Again with a small cabin there is not much need for rear fill. Purely preference though.

I can't really say about the stock amp. Make sure you check the impedance. The stock amplifier also has the crossover circuitry internally so you will have no choice but to use summing interfaces to hook up aftermarket components if you wish to use their crossover. I don't know what the stock crossover points are.

At the end of the day I decided to just replace everything and it was without a doubt the correct approach.

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by bol

You could do a 3 way but in such a small cabin it would be purely for sound quality. I wouldn't bother with the Focal Access. Having had them before I wasn't very impressed and in the Focal line I wouldn't get anything lower than the polykevlar. At which point the price range starts increasing dramatically and a high quality amplifier is required.

The rear mids are very difficult to get to and you're not going to be able to get much out of such a small speaker. Mine are disconnected. Again with a small cabin there is not much need for rear fill. Purely preference though.

I can't really say about the stock amp. Make sure you check the impedance. The stock amplifier also has the crossover circuitry internally so you will have no choice but to use summing interfaces to hook up aftermarket components if you wish to use their crossover. I don't know what the stock crossover points are.

At the end of the day I decided to just replace everything and it was without a doubt the correct approach.

I have considered using the Audio Control LC8i or DQL-8 summing interface, a good amp, and replacing the fronts and subs, leaving the rear mids alone. This option is expensive however. I am curious as to the quality of the Bavarian Soundwerks replacement mids and tweets? I do prefer silk dome tweeters.......... wonder how much smoother their replacements are........ can't seem to find any decent Z4 owner reviews.

John

[Graham M]

Originally Posted by whilechukwuzout

My car has the carver system and I think the subwoofers that come with it are awesome!

wow. You need to hear what a good stereo is if you think those subs rock. I pulled mine out since I was sick of the thick, muddy bass. Best improvement since.

I had a 400 watt RMS amp, and a 10" in the back. Took up very little space. Well recommended.

This was my install
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248228

[HaiDef]

Originally Posted by Graham M

wow. You need to hear what a good stereo is if you think those subs rock. I pulled mine out since I was sick of the thick, muddy bass. Best improvement since.

I had a 400 watt RMS amp, and a 10" in the back. Took up very little space. Well recommended.

This was my install
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248228

I have a 10" sub in the trunk already. I just want more mid sounds

[elerner61]

I've had my roadster now for 3 month's now. It has the NAV/DSP Carver system. I've been slowly planning my system upgrade, I say slowly because the stock system is not horrible...certainly lots of room for improvement though.

I can't believe how the system is engineered/configured. Subs? Is that what those are? Subs are supposed to put out some bass. Just tonight I finally had some time to while away and I figured out that the "Subs" fade with the rear speakers. You think whatever bottom end the system has comes from the Subs? Dead wrong, it's from the kick panel drivers. Do this test, put on a nice bass filled test song. Make sure your equalizer setting is at least flat across the board, now set the fader all the way to the front. Sounds ok, right? And it's got some decent bass. Now, move the driver's seat and seatback forward and get an ear next to one of the subs....NOTHING! No sound. Now set the fader all the way to the rear and get an ear next to a sub again. There is some sound coming from the subs...but it's definitely not bass and the level is incredibly low. Absolutely worthless.

Am I alone in this conclusion regarding the subs? They literally produce very little sound...even if I push the 80hz equalizer band setting to full tilt. Can someone who has the Nav/DSP system like mine confirm this for me? Maybe there is something wrong with my system.

None the less, I'm thinking of using a JBL-MS8 on the back end of the OEM amp, re-using an amp I have, reusing a set of CDT 3-way separates for the fronts, and maybe another amp and Tang Band subs in place of the OEM subs.

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by elerner61

I've had my roadster now for 3 month's now. It has the NAV/DSP Carver system. I've been slowly planning my system upgrade, I say slowly because the stock system is not horrible...certainly lots of room for improvement though.

I can't believe how the system is engineered/configured. Subs? Is that what those are? Subs are supposed to put out some bass. Just tonight I finally had some time to while away and I figured out that the "Subs" fade with the rear speakers. You think whatever bottom end the system has comes from the Subs? Dead wrong, it's from the kick panel drivers. Do this test, put on a nice bass filled test song. Make sure your equalizer setting is at least flat across the board, now set the fader all the way to the front. Sounds ok, right? And it's got some decent bass. Now, move the driver's seat and seatback forward and get an ear next to one of the subs....NOTHING! No sound. Now set the fader all the way to the rear and get an ear next to a sub again. There is some sound coming from the subs...but it's definitely not bass and the level is incredibly low. Absolutely worthless.

Am I alone in this conclusion regarding the subs? They literally produce very little sound...even if I push the 80hz equalizer band setting to full tilt. Can someone who has the Nav/DSP system like mine confirm this for me? Maybe there is something wrong with my system.

None the less, I'm thinking of using a JBL-MS8 on the back end of the OEM amp, re-using an amp I have, reusing a set of CDT 3-way separates for the fronts, and maybe another amp and Tang Band subs in place of the OEM subs.

Yea, I came to a similar conclusion ................... the "articulate" bass is coming from the 6 1/2 in the kick panel, and the Carver subs are adding the very low frequency "boom/thud" you hear............ a little more meat to kick drums for instance, but the tight bass is from the kicks. I look forward to seeing your new system, I'm a fan of the 3 way CDTs as well. I was thinking about doing something similar (above post), but might try the BSW stage one mids and tweets first. I'd love to find a really good replacement 6 1/2 for the kick panels that would work with the existing amp.................. the dificulty comes from not knowing the parameters of the stock speakers. I think I read somewhere the kick panel woofers are 4 ohm, and that the efficiency is high ................ that's the key, matching the efficiency rating if you're keeping the stock amp. Any guess as to what the stockers are? 90db? Higher?

John

[elerner61]

Originally Posted by antennahead

Yea, I came to a similar conclusion ............ I'm a fan of the 3 way CDTs as well. I was thinking about doing something similar (above post), but might try the BSW stage one mids and tweets first. I'd love to find a really good replacement 6 1/2 for the kick panels that would work with the existing amp.................. John

I have newfound respect for the stock 6-1/2's after my testing yesterday. They actually hit pretty hard, and changing the mid's and tweet's may just wake up the system. If you go the BSW route, let me know what you think. For the $250 or so bucks w/guaranty it's not a bad deal. I've thought of doing that, but I've got the CDT's just sitting around (they are actually 2-ways, I have to buy the 4" mids) along with an "ok" Alpine amp that I'm itching to use. I've had Miata's for the last 12 years with no chance for subs, so I'm looking for a "project". And using the JBL-MS8, a project it will be. If you haven't looked into it at all, it's an auto-tuning Digital Signal Processor that JBL has put A LOT of thought and engineering into. There is a 200+ page thread over on the diymobileaudio.com forum that has followed its release.

My only unknown right now is finalizing what sub to use and how to finish the existing sub enclosure with it. I want to use the existing mesh cover, so depending on finding a sub that will fit and will work with the given volume of the enclosure.....a project.

[SmartBastard]

Originally Posted by bol

Try putting better drivers in the doors and in the stock sub locations. You'll probably get more midbass than you need. You'll never get low frequency's without a subwoofer though. The stock subwoofers get low frequency but they don't deliver enough volume and are terribly inefficient.

Will try that, thanks!

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by elerner61

I have newfound respect for the stock 6-1/2's after my testing yesterday. They actually hit pretty hard, and changing the mid's and tweet's may just wake up the system. If you go the BSW route, let me know what you think. For the $250 or so bucks w/guaranty it's not a bad deal. I've thought of doing that, but I've got the CDT's just sitting around (they are actually 2-ways, I have to buy the 4" mids) along with an "ok" Alpine amp that I'm itching to use. I've had Miata's for the last 12 years with no chance for subs, so I'm looking for a "project". And using the JBL-MS8, a project it will be. If you haven't looked into it at all, it's an auto-tuning Digital Signal Processor that JBL has put A LOT of thought and engineering into. There is a 200+ page thread over on the diymobileaudio.com forum that has followed its release.

My only unknown right now is finalizing what sub to use and how to finish the existing sub enclosure with it. I want to use the existing mesh cover, so depending on finding a sub that will fit and will work with the given volume of the enclosure.....a project.

That's what the guys at BSW say, their new mids and tweets "wake up the system" and tighten the bass as well (mids kick in at 100hz), and don't distort near as early on the volume curve as the stockers so you get more power out of your system. Not to mention the silk dome tweets are a lot smoother. I'm with you, for that price I may try it first, and damp the door panels, as well as remove the kick panel woofers and do some dampening in there as well, finishing up with a removal of the Carver subs and a healthy dose of dampening material to the enclosure and baffle. That in combination with the stage 1 upgrade might make me happy for awhile.

John

[elerner61]

Looks like I'm going with plan "B" first

I got a good deal on a new JBL-MS8 ($500 shipped). So far my strategy is as follows:
1. Hook up the MS8 to stock speakers just for sh*ts and grins
2. Swap in my CDT HD-642's in the fronts running just off the MS8's internal amps just to see how that sounds
3. Add an amp, with the MS-8 amps running the tweets and the amp running the mids and mid-bass'
4. Add another amp and subs

Will probably start in on it around Labor day. Nothing quite like pulling a perfectly good car all apart

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by elerner61

Looks like I'm going with plan "B" first

I got a good deal on a new JBL-MS8 ($500 shipped). So far my strategy is as follows:
1. Hook up the MS8 to stock speakers just for sh*ts and grins
2. Swap in my CDT HD-642's in the fronts running just off the MS8's internal amps just to see how that sounds
3. Add an amp, with the MS-8 amps running the tweets and the amp running the mids and mid-bass'
4. Add another amp and subs

Will probably start in on it around Labor day. Nothing quite like pulling a perfectly good car all apart

Look forward to hearing your results. MS8 looks very similar to the DQL-8, with the exception that you have power as well with the MS8. I'm still on the fence, may try the BSW stage 1 upgrade first, and if that doesn't satisfy me, I'll definitely ge going the processor and separate amp and components route.

[elerner61]

Originally Posted by antennahead

Look forward to hearing your results. MS8 looks very similar to the DQL-8, with the exception that you have power as well with the MS8. I'm still on the fence, may try the BSW stage 1 upgrade first, and if that doesn't satisfy me, I'll definitely ge going the processor and separate amp and components route.

A big difference with the MS-8 is its auto tune capability. Another difference from other DSP's is the ability to continue to use the volume control on the head unit and not having to use a master volume control for the DSP.

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by elerner61

A big difference with the MS-8 is its auto tune capability. Another difference from other DSP's is the ability to continue to use the volume control on the head unit and not having to use a master volume control for the DSP.

Check out the DQL-8, I think it has similar capabilities:

http://www.crutchfield.com/s_161DQL8....html?tp=37274

[strokeZ]

Well I guess you can keep throwing money at it and allow your brain to think you have a great sound system. It can never be true audiophile quality in this car - even if you throw tons of dynamat and subs and other shit to it. Yeah, it will be loud, boomy or whatever, but it will never be audiophile. Never.

[HaiDef]

well, it would still be nice to have mid bass. That is all im lacking. the notes from the highs sound great stock and i have nice bass from my Sub. I just want the mid bass that is lacking in music that fills up the rest of the song. Mid bass is usually the bass guitar of alternative and rock music

[elerner61]

Originally Posted by strokeZ

Well I guess you can keep throwing money at it and allow your brain to think you have a great sound system. It can never be true audiophile quality in this car - even if you throw tons of dynamat and subs and other shit to it. Yeah, it will be loud, boomy or whatever, but it will never be audiophile. Never.

Never?? Well then I guess I'll just scrub my entire upgrade plan. Thanks for helping me see the light.

[nadaclue]

Just as a heads up, the CDT-HD642 4" mid won't fit in the door. I just tried it this weekend, I ended up drilling another hole in the frame of the 4" to match up with the funky bolt pattern (2 of the 3 originals line up no problem) but when I put the door panel back on the speaker was too deep. The original ~3.5" speakers that are in the door are only 1.75" deep, the CDT 4" mid from the HD642 set is 2.25". You could maybe get away with a 2" deep mid, anything else would be pushing it.

I have some Diamond audio 3-ways sitting around, but I didn't feel like trying to hook up that 4" though it was only 2" deep.

Originally Posted by elerner61

Looks like I'm going with plan "B" first

I got a good deal on a new JBL-MS8 ($500 shipped). So far my strategy is as follows:
1. Hook up the MS8 to stock speakers just for sh*ts and grins
2. Swap in my CDT HD-642's in the fronts running just off the MS8's internal amps just to see how that sounds
3. Add an amp, with the MS-8 amps running the tweets and the amp running the mids and mid-bass'
4. Add another amp and subs

Will probably start in on it around Labor day. Nothing quite like pulling a perfectly good car all apart

[elerner61]

I can't thank you enough for this info, really. I planned to, but haven't gotten around to pulling the door panel yet and confirming whether the 4" would fit and I may have missed checking the depth. I'll have to investigate other options now for the mid in the door. Perhaps the CDT 3" which is a little shallower or something else.

Again, thanks for letting me know.

BTW, you didn't happen to check the depth on the install of the HD-6 mid-woofer in the kickpanel, did you?

[antennahead]

Originally Posted by elerner61

I can't thank you enough for this info, really. I planned to, but haven't gotten around to pulling the door panel yet and confirming whether the 4" would fit and I may have missed checking the depth. I'll have to investigate other options now for the mid in the door. Perhaps the CDT 3" which is a little shallower or something else.

Again, thanks for letting me know.

Seems to me I remember reading somewhere that the Focal 4" mids fit ok, but I can't say that with 100% conviction.