Summer performance tires in the winter

[grannyknot]

Occasionally during the winter we get a few days of above normal temps and the roads are clean and dry with air temperatures around 50 - 60F.
I have new Continental Extreme Contact Sport Plus tires on the Z4 and I'm wondering if I can safely take the car out for drive if I don't push the car much?

I've read a few times that you can actually harm summer performance tires by driving on them when the roads are cold but I thought I would put the question to the forum.
Thanks

[86Zed]

Those air temperatures sound positively 3 season friendly to me. I have taken my car out on Michelin Pilot Super Sports multiple times in low 40F and sometimes lower ambient temperatures. This usually occurs in April/October for the first/last track day of the year. Most recently did 250 transit miles and 200 miles on track and the ambient temp never exceeded 41F.

It's probably not ideal and I am not a tire engineer. So what if I sacrifice ultimate performance or require a replacement set sooner? Yes the performance limits shift drastically when not up to temperature, approach cautiously.

[wdb]

I like to exercise my cars at any opportunity, if only to get the fluids up to temperature for an hour or so. That has caused me to drive on summer tires in 20F temperatures at times. They don't work nearly as well as they do in warmer weather, but then I'm not coming anywhere near any sort of limits of adhesion either. Just gentle driving. I haven't had any problems.

[Piper1]

For here even if temps are up there’s still residual road salt/salt dust/slag so I refrain. Otherwise I’d be going snow tires again for the season but it’s been quite a while since it’s been my only/daily.

[Huz-Z]

Those temps are absolutely fine for your tires.

It’s the road salt and gravel that I’d worry about. If there is any of that on the streets I’d wait, regardless of the temperature outside.

[maupineda]

you will be fine. as long as you don't do anything silly, and the roads are dry, you can drive as low as 4C

[wdb]

Just to be clear I don't drive my fun cars on salted/cindered/sanded roads. I do take advantage of dry days and clear roads in winter however. Again it's just to keep the fluids flowing.

[OneFastMac]

I get the same kind of mild Winter weather in Kansas and any time I've had a car with "summer" tires, my general rule of thumb has been to only drive on them in temps above 40F
The one thing you may need to watch out for is if the car has sat for several cold days and you decide to take it out on the warm day, you'll likely have some flat-spotting on the tires that may not go away quickly if they can't get up to a certain temp.

[Coi]

As you drive the tires warm up (as it rotates the tire deflects to meet the road and the internal friction of the rubber converts some of the energy from that motion into heat). Even if it's below freezing out if the road it dry your tires won't stay that cold for long. If you're not in stop-and-go traffic it doesn't take too much time to get tires up to a decent temp at which point the grip won't be nearly as bad as when they're super cold.

Tire companies do warn about cracking or flat-spotting of summer tires in very cold temps but I haven't heard of this actually happening to anyone. I once (foolishly) drove P Zeros in cold snow for several hours and they didn't have any issues besides the fact that I couldn't stop or steer very easily. Was going slow so they didn't heat up much either.

Wet or snowy roads pull heat away from the tires much more quickly than the air. Tires will still stay much warmer than ambient temps in those conditions though, especially if you're driving on the highway. Some newer vehicles (including all new bmws I believe) give tire temp as well as pressure so you can see this for yourself.

[grannyknot]

Thanks guys, I was hoping that would be the general opinion, as I said I certainly won't be pushing the car, I would just be working the bugs out after the rebuild.

[bwright657]

Those tires will be fine at anything above 40F. The only thing I would caution would be to wait a bit for things to warm up if your temperatures drop below freezing at night.

[bosstones]

Yeah, those temps are no issue. The softer compound used for summer tires helps w/ the added grip that we like from our summer tires.

As temps drop, the compound 'hardens' up more thereby making them less grippy. I've certainly ran mine at 35F (prior to any snow/salt) but I adjust my driving characteristics since, while not bad, the traction difference is noticeable (mostly in turns).

This is one of the reasons why the different tire compounds are an advertising point for winter tires, specifically that they retain more pliability in colder temps where even all-seasons start stiffening.

[garz747]

I had this exact scenario on Friday. Only .5C but totally dry roads and salt
free. I wanted to have the fuel stabilizer distributed anyway so thought I'd take a short rip in the country before the snow flies. While going 60kph an idiot in a huge flatbed semi exited from a never ending construction site nearby. There was no need for this as the road behind me was empty. Idiot probably never turned his head. Stopping was no problem but when I full throttled in 2nd to pass the moron my M fishtailed a bit. This would never happen at warmer temps. You do have to realize that the Michelin Pilot Super Sports are not meant for these temps. No harm done and I finished the rest of my drive uneventfully...

[DFW Tom]

In previous performance cars I’ve run the Pilot Super Sports, are these the preferred tires for this car? When I bought her, she was outfitted with General Tire run-flats. The grip is exceptional, but the ride is stiff and I’d love something softer…

[garz747]

Absolutely the best performance tire for this particular car! Continentals were like hockey pucks. General is considered a 2nd tier manufacturer. Stick to the Michelins.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by DFW Tom

In previous performance cars I’ve run the Pilot Super Sports, are these the preferred tires for this car? When I bought her, she was outfitted with General Tire run-flats. The grip is exceptional, but the ride is stiff and I’d love something softer…

Drifting off topic a bit, hope OP doesn't mind.

DITCH THE RUNFLATS. Get some decent tires on the car and toss a patch kit in the trunk. Your whole body will smile. As for which tire, my car had Contis on it when I purchased it, which I replaced with PS4S's. I like the Michelins better but I do think it is a personal preference. If I was bolder I might try Sport Cup 2's...

[grannyknot]

Originally Posted by grannyknot

I have new Continental Extreme Contact Sport Plus tires on the Z4

Originally Posted by garz747

Absolutely the best performance tire for this particular car! Continentals were like hockey pucks. General is considered a 2nd tier manufacturer. Stick to the Michelins.

I've had Michelins for decades, these Conti's are better.

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

When I bought my Coupe it was December 2015. The car had a fresh set of Pilot Sports on it. I dove it at least twice a week on my daily commute that includes some serious backroad work. Even under very aggressive driving on asphalt and tar & pitch surfaces I never got the car past the available grip level in air temps south of 30 deg. F. It's not like summer tires turn into dull iceskates or something when winter sets in.

As long as the road is dry it’s okay.

But you can get black ice in shaded spots at temps below 3c / 37f and then you will transform into a hockey puck.

“He shoots and does NOT score!!”

[wdb]

I once found myself on a highway overpass that had frozen over during a freezing rainstorm. The roadway was just wet so everyone was sailing along at nearly normal speeds. When they hit the overpass, cars just started going all akimbo, sliding this way and that, utterly without traction. I was in a Subaru with true winter tires, and was able to steer my way through the mayhem. I'm not saying I had a lot of traction. But I had *some* traction.

[MCouper]

I've had my Z4M Coupe for 12 years in Boston and use it mostly as a track/weekend car. I have only ever kept it on summer tires. I used to ride with Hankook V12's but switched to RS4's recently. If you're going to stick with summer tires during the winter then I highly recommend only taking it out when the weather is dry and the roads are clear (which sounds like most of the winter for you). If we get a big snowfall here, then I usually take it out a day before the storm arrives and then will wait a week or two until the roads are bare before taking it out again.

If it's below 40 degrees, then just take it easy and give the car and the tires time to warm up. It can be easy to forget this at times, especially if you're merging from a dead stop, so be careful pulling out onto roads.

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

That's the case with any tire...

Possibly but after driving for more Canadian winters than I will admit, I’d be very careful that road conditions were ideal before driving on summer tires during winter. . Guidance above re warming up the tires is good. Also remember that while it can be suitably warm during late morning to mid day, the temps can start to drop once it gets to be mid afternoon, meaning the roads may become slippery and the rubber may stiffen giving less traction.

Nothing wrong with a little winter blast in the car as long as a fella is careful!

[3798j]

Both Continental's and TireRack's websites say don't use summer performance tires in cold temps...

From Tire Rack...https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=273

"Can you? Or, should you? The simple answer is — no you shouldn't. Summer performance tires are simply not designed for near- or below-freezing temperatures. Here's a quick explanation of why.

Summer performance tires feature tread rubber compounds engineered to provide traction in warm to hot temperatures only. As temperatures drop into the 40s, a summer performance tire's tread compound changes from a pliable elastic to an inflexible plastic, drastically reducing traction capabilities. The tire industry calls this process the "glass transition." And, without traction, your vehicle will have a hard time staying on the road!

In fact, should summer performance tires even be exposed to near- or below-freezing temperatures, tread compound cracking or tread block chipping can occur. Once a tire has been damaged in this way, it will need to be replaced. And, as both types of damage only occur as the result of improper use or storage, they will not typically be covered by the manufacturer's warranty.

So, to recap — don't drive summer tires in the cold! Save yourself the headache of an accident or damaged tires, and transition to All-Season or dedicated Winter tires in the Fall - before cold weather hits."