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      01-24-2017, 11:41 AM   #23
GuidoK
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Do you have pictures on how good it fits on the inside part of the disc (so closest to the hub) and on the outside of the disc, so basically how good the pads are aligned on the brake disc surface?
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      01-24-2017, 11:56 AM   #24
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Don't have pics at the moment, but there is enough clearance on both sides to allow caliper movement from new and worn pads.
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      01-24-2017, 12:12 PM   #25
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I mean pictures of how well the pads fit the rotor. so how good it gets the inner and outer circle. That the rotor isnt too small or too big for the pads.
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      01-24-2017, 09:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
It fits!



Direct swap, no cutting or modification anywhere - Z4M stock rotors (345mmx28) and 335i front calipers (2012-2013 335i or 2011-2016 Z4)

Weight difference 3.0si Caliper/Rotor (325mmx25) to this new combo = 1lb heavier per corner. Being that I shaved 2 lbs per corner by going to ARC-8 wheels, still not bad. Although the 335i caliper is made for 348mm rotor, mostly all of the brake pad surface covers the Z4M rotor.

I have yet to calculate piston/pad area for some rough check of bias change. Time to prep and paint the calipers. Just barely fits inside the ARC-8 wheel, but clears as well.
That's fantastic news man, thanks for figuring this out!
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      02-08-2017, 05:24 PM   #27
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Alright, official weights are in:

Front OEM Caliper 3.0si (steel), w/pads 14.8 lbs
Front OEM Rotor 325x25 17.2 lbs
335i Front Caliper (alum), w/pads 14 lbs
Z4M Front Rotor 345x28 19 lbs
Total Savings -2 lbs

I added 1 lb on each front corner. I also saved 1.6lb per corner by going to ARC8 wheels, so this is almost a wash in weight, which keeps front unsprung weight in check.
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      02-08-2017, 06:11 PM   #28
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Painting the calipers G2 paint Mustang GRAY



Rear painted stock calipers, new stoptech rotors (old ones were extremely thin and completely rusted!)


Amount of gap between Z4M rotor and 335i caliper bracket.


335i pad covers rotor well on the inner radius


A bit of overlap on the outer circumference, expected since the Z4M rotor is only 345mm diameter, while the 335i rotor is 348mm


BEFORE (stock 3.0si front caliper/rotor)


AFTER (Z4M rotor, 335i caliper)
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      02-08-2017, 06:48 PM   #29
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That worked out great!
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      02-09-2017, 09:01 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
A bit of overlap on the outer circumference, expected since the Z4M rotor is only 345mm diameter, while the 335i rotor is 348mm
Love it all and I plan to duplicate this setup.

But here's my question to the picture above.

Would this amount of overlap not cause dragging of the pad eventually causing heat/friction problems or potentially the pieces of the pad flaking off?
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      02-09-2017, 09:16 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3GFX View Post

Would this amount of overlap not cause dragging of the pad eventually causing heat/friction problems or potentially the pieces of the pad flaking off?
If it wears in there will be a lip on that material and that will probably flake off. pad material is very brittle. Time will tell if that gives problems
I think dragging wont be a problem (not on such a small surface, its a 2mm lip or so).
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      06-26-2017, 08:40 AM   #32
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I have some updates on this setup, need some feedback as well.

Did a weekend PCA HPDE event in Pocono. Brakes for the most part performed very well, including the car (remember, I'm driving a 3.0si with the 2jZ swap pushing about 500whp). I was hitting 150-160 in the straights way to easily, and after a few sessions, started to get serious brake fade.

Only now did I realize I was running Stoptech Street pads, ( 308 series), which from reading, are the lowest end pad! Mistake on my part.

I'm going to work on cooling/ducting and going up to the next level of pad, which is the Sport pad. There are many to choose from, but going with experience from my brother who runs the same pads, was slowing down his 4000lb RS4 with no fade at all (same track, same event).

Those of you with track experience in the Z4M, do you feel proper cooling and updated pads should eliminate my fade issues while keeping the OEM brake setup? Or, is there a point where I will have to go BBK since the OEM brakes can't make the cut?

I'm also worried about my puny rear 294mmx19 rotors (vs the M's 328x20) not being up to snuff. I don't have any option to upgrade those unless I go full BBK it seems.
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      06-27-2017, 08:35 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
I have some updates on this setup, need some feedback as well.

Did a weekend PCA HPDE event in Pocono. Brakes for the most part performed very well, including the car (remember, I'm driving a 3.0si with the 2jZ swap pushing about 500whp). I was hitting 150-160 in the straights way to easily, and after a few sessions, started to get serious brake fade.

Only now did I realize I was running Stoptech Street pads, ( 308 series), which from reading, are the lowest end pad! Mistake on my part.

I'm going to work on cooling/ducting and going up to the next level of pad, which is the Sport pad. There are many to choose from, but going with experience from my brother who runs the same pads, was slowing down his 4000lb RS4 with no fade at all (same track, same event).

Those of you with track experience in the Z4M, do you feel proper cooling and updated pads should eliminate my fade issues while keeping the OEM brake setup? Or, is there a point where I will have to go BBK since the OEM brakes can't make the cut?

I'm also worried about my puny rear 294mmx19 rotors (vs the M's 328x20) not being up to snuff. I don't have any option to upgrade those unless I go full BBK it seems.
I had a ST40 kit and sold it because I felt the stock brakes plus track pads & hi temp fluids + cooling was enough to avoid fade. Without brake ducts I could probably still get by but would need to bleed more often.
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      11-07-2017, 01:51 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
^inner diameter for the parking brake is 185mm on those rotors, so you have to work around that. There are a few ways for that.
Everything over 300mm on bmw has a 185mm parking brake.

And the 135i disc is still about 3mm off in offset compared to the z4 disc. This could be corrected though.
The strange thing is that the brembo catalogue displays different sizes than the ate catalogue (in offset).
Would a rear kit (like ST-22) for an e46 325i/328i bolt up the the non-m Z4?
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      11-09-2017, 01:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
Would a rear kit (like ST-22) for an e46 325i/328i bolt up the the non-m Z4?
I think the ID of the rotor hat is different for the parking brake.
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      11-09-2017, 01:23 PM   #36
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^afaik the ID of the rotor hat is the same (both 160mm, so the 'small' bmw parking brake.
But the depth of the rotor hat is afaik much deeper on a z4 (so the rotor has a different offset).
Its because the z4 has a different bearing flange at the rear (and the z4 has thus a wider track at the rear)
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      11-09-2017, 02:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
I have some updates on this setup, need some feedback as well.

Did a weekend PCA HPDE event in Pocono. Brakes for the most part performed very well, including the car (remember, I'm driving a 3.0si with the 2jZ swap pushing about 500whp). I was hitting 150-160 in the straights way to easily, and after a few sessions, started to get serious brake fade.

Only now did I realize I was running Stoptech Street pads, ( 308 series), which from reading, are the lowest end pad! Mistake on my part.

I'm going to work on cooling/ducting and going up to the next level of pad, which is the Sport pad. There are many to choose from, but going with experience from my brother who runs the same pads, was slowing down his 4000lb RS4 with no fade at all (same track, same event).

Those of you with track experience in the Z4M, do you feel proper cooling and updated pads should eliminate my fade issues while keeping the OEM brake setup? Or, is there a point where I will have to go BBK since the OEM brakes can't make the cut?

I'm also worried about my puny rear 294mmx19 rotors (vs the M's 328x20) not being up to snuff. I don't have any option to upgrade those unless I go full BBK it seems.
I've run my 3.0si quite a few times on various tracks with just high temp fluid and Hawk HP Plus pads with no issues. You're hitting higher speeds but the Z4M brakes are beefier. I know several people who track their E46 M3 with just upgraded pads and high temp fluid with no issues also. Did you have DSC/DTC turned off or did you leave them on? If you left them on that adds considerably to the heat loading on the brakes and may have been a contributor. I've seen people absolutely toast the rear brakes in one session from running the nannies combined with the hard braking.
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      11-09-2017, 03:34 PM   #38
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I think a new update is due

Now running PFC08 pads all around with the same setup (335i front calipers/Z4M front rotors, stock 3.0si rear caliper/slotted rear rotor), and brake cooling ducts.

No fade whatsoever from repeated high speed stops on subsequent HPDE events. Very strong braking and progressive brake pedal feel.

I have all the braking I need, and can lock up the fronts if I really want to (actually, engage the ABS...).

Some observations: On very tight braking corners (>90deg), sometimes feel the brake pedal drop a bit. Almost feels like the calipers slide over, but full braking still available.

Also, I wish I had more stopping power with less brake effort. I have to really mash the pedal down hard to get full braking, which makes heal-toe more difficult. I'll assume going BBK is only going to net me minor improvements from here on, but I may still consider it just for that extra amount of consistency and pad selection.

The next thing I need to resolve is better tire contact patch management - in other words, reduce rear-to-front body dip, which probably causes too much negative cmaber in front, thus less tire patch to slow me down. I also wonder about rear brake bias, may need to find a way to increase the rear a bit.

DSC is disabled, no break modulation from any of the nannies.
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      11-09-2017, 06:31 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
Also, I wish I had more stopping power with less brake effort. I have to really mash the pedal down hard to get full braking, which makes heal-toe more difficult.
Maybe you could experiment with the m3/z4m master cylinder and brake servo.
But those parts arent exactly cheap for a setup not sure to solve your problem to your liking (both are $350+)
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      11-09-2017, 08:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
^afaik the ID of the rotor hat is the same (both 160mm, so the 'small' bmw parking brake.
But the depth of the rotor hat is afaik much deeper on a z4 (so the rotor has a different offset).
Its because the z4 has a different bearing flange at the rear (and the z4 has thus a wider track at the rear)
Makes sense, I specifically recall noticing how the rear rotor hats appeared so much taller than other cars I've had
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      11-09-2017, 09:02 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
I think a new update is due

Now running PFC08 pads all around with the same setup (335i front calipers/Z4M front rotors, stock 3.0si rear caliper/slotted rear rotor), and brake cooling ducts.

No fade whatsoever from repeated high speed stops on subsequent HPDE events. Very strong braking and progressive brake pedal feel.

I have all the braking I need, and can lock up the fronts if I really want to (actually, engage the ABS...).

Some observations: On very tight braking corners (>90deg), sometimes feel the brake pedal drop a bit. Almost feels like the calipers slide over, but full braking still available.

Also, I wish I had more stopping power with less brake effort. I have to really mash the pedal down hard to get full braking, which makes heal-toe more difficult. I'll assume going BBK is only going to net me minor improvements from here on, but I may still consider it just for that extra amount of consistency and pad selection.

The next thing I need to resolve is better tire contact patch management - in other words, reduce rear-to-front body dip, which probably causes too much negative cmaber in front, thus less tire patch to slow me down. I also wonder about rear brake bias, may need to find a way to increase the rear a bit.

DSC is disabled, no break modulation from any of the nannies.
I would've expected the increased torque from larger rotor would result in less brake effort not more. Any idea if 17" wheels would clear these calipers/rotors?

Re brake pedal dropping what condition are your wheel bearings in? Worn bearings could cause side to side reflection deflection that would move the piston.

Btw you mention ZHP rotors being same size as the M3 and Z4M but I think you meant ZCP? The ZHP and base m3 both received 325mm rotors while the Competition package ans Z4M got the bigger 345mm
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      11-12-2017, 09:37 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
I would've expected the increased torque from larger rotor would result in less brake effort not more. Any idea if 17" wheels would clear these calipers/rotors?

Re brake pedal dropping what condition are your wheel bearings in? Worn bearings could cause side to side reflection deflection that would move the piston.

Btw you mention ZHP rotors being same size as the M3 and Z4M but I think you meant ZCP? The ZHP and base m3 both received 325mm rotors while the Competition package ans Z4M got the bigger 345mm
Agreed, larger rotor, more pad surface and larger piston (compared to the 3.0si setup). On fresh Motul600 as well, properly bled.

Brand new wheel bearings all around. Perhaps the G's i'm pulling causes the caliper(s) to unstick on the sliders? After this happens, I never get it again on the same corner.

You're correct, I mean the 345mm variant.

------

On an unrelated note, does anyone have comparison between the REAR 3.0si and Z4M calipers? Specifically, piston size and any differences in pad size? I'm wondering if I'm missing too much rear brake emphasis...

EDIT: Just checked my front wheel bearing, and it is "bad" again! 1 week old. It was an off brand unit $60 for two from ebay, second one that went bad this year. Should probably go back to *** units.
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      11-12-2017, 07:24 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre99gsx View Post
Agreed, larger rotor, more pad surface and larger piston (compared to the 3.0si setup). On fresh Motul600 as well, properly bled.

Brand new wheel bearings all around. Perhaps the G's i'm pulling causes the caliper(s) to unstick on the sliders? After this happens, I never get it again on the same corner.

You're correct, I mean the 345mm variant.

------

On an unrelated note, does anyone have comparison between the REAR 3.0si and Z4M calipers? Specifically, piston size and any differences in pad size? I'm wondering if I'm missing too much rear brake emphasis...

EDIT: Just checked my front wheel bearing, and it is "bad" again! 1 week old. It was an off brand unit $60 for two from ebay, second one that went bad this year. Should probably go back to *** units.
Go FCP Euro, lifetime warranty on everything so even if you go OEM (over bmw original) you can still get replaced for free. Heck you can even send back old motor oil lol.
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      11-16-2017, 08:15 AM   #44
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Ok - being that the Z4M front rotor fits the 3.0si, and the 335i front caliper fits with fairly good and even tolerances, does anyone have any photos showing that the Z4M front caliper can/can't fit the 3.0si?

I've read some posts saying it can't, but there was no measurements or actual data to show this (seems just hearsay). Can anyone positively confirm?

Reason I ask - I'm looking to piece together some other components for the front, and knowing what can/can't fit will help me determine what else I can swap over. If a Z4M caliper can fit up front, then I can follow some of the E46 M3 upgrade paths for the front system without issue.

I may be able to mix/match parts from Stoptech to move up to a 355mm system knowing this info. Since no one makes a 355mm upgrade to the 3.0si (or E46 330i from what I've seen), I may have to piece something together.

Am I not happy with my current brakes? No. Why do I want to do this? Because Racecar
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