ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-02-2015, 06:23 PM   #1
UntzUntzUntz
Lieutenant
UntzUntzUntz's Avatar
United_States
126
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: 21 M2 Comp
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (2)

How bulletproof is the s54?

Hey fellaZ,

It's coming close to a year now I've been contemplating some sort of FI on my M. Nowhere near execution but just wanna know how high I can bring my hopes up for the future. Supercharger is the easy, cheap, and especially safe route to go with. But that's just not enough racecar for me. That leaves only one to shed the light and that's a turbo build. I know I know, people tried it and nearly all of them went south. But that's why I'm posting this thread. There are so many turbo s54 swapped e30's, e46's, e36's, why can't the Z4's get in the game?

One thing that freaks me out the most is the very core that keeps these German horses on crack, the block. I've seen and heard people/shops passing on doing a FI build because the block just can't handle it. It either warps or one case I've heard the cylinder walls get cracked? (often times when it's bored out), which I think is complete BS but none the less, we hear more of those stories than success stories. Didn't know to either laugh or cry. To what extent can one push an s54 to warp the block? This is the only thing keeping me on the fence. Is doing a turbo build reasonable? Reliable? Or even possible for that matter?

Before you reply, here's what I have planned for if the build moves forward:
- Over build the motor. Pretty much a given considering our rod bearings and VANOS bolts have a life span shorter than Gordon Ramsay's temper.
- ECU. This is one of the top reasons we see s54's fail; just decides to fry. Standalone is a must.
- Water/Meth. Because we don't want the engine to be as hot as Caitlyn Jenner. Clearly doesn't end well.


Or just get a supercharger... lol
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2015, 06:44 PM   #2
dubsesd
#dubspec
dubsesd's Avatar
No_Country
6317
Rep
5,200
Posts

Drives: G05 X5/ 2016 F80 M3 INDVL
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa

iTrader: (2)

I don't know what you are willing to spend or how much time and patience you have reserved, but i drove a vf 570 equipped z4m with a custom built rear diff and cams, custom tune and injectors....and it was more than enough power. Any more and you will have a hard time putting it down and making it useful imo
__________________
LCI ///F80 M3 Individual Atlantis Metallic / Black Full / Carbon Cermics / 6MT
MPE / M Performance & Carbon package / KW v3 / 20" HRE R101LW / 20" HRE 527s / Michelin PSS / 20% tint / 3d Design / Streckenn splitters / OEM GTS hood / EAS Carbon seatbacks / Carbon RKP sideskirt / Bootmod3 / M Performance Tri color alcantara / AWE S Flow
instagram: @ dubsesd
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2015, 07:35 PM   #3
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UntzUntzUntz
Hey fellaZ,

It's coming close to a year now I've been contemplating some sort of FI on my M. Nowhere near execution but just wanna know how high I can bring my hopes up for the future. Supercharger is the easy, cheap, and especially safe route to go with. But that's just not enough racecar for me. That leaves only one to shed the light and that's a turbo build. I know I know, people tried it and nearly all of them went south. But that's why I'm posting this thread. There are so many turbo s54 swapped e30's, e46's, e36's, why can't the Z4's get in the game?

One thing that freaks me out the most is the very core that keeps these German horses on crack, the block. I've seen and heard people/shops passing on doing a FI build because the block just can't handle it. It either warps or one case I've heard the cylinder walls get cracked? (often times when it's bored out), which I think is complete BS but none the less, we hear more of those stories than success stories. Didn't know to either laugh or cry. To what extent can one push an s54 to warp the block? This is the only thing keeping me on the fence. Is doing a turbo build reasonable? Reliable? Or even possible for that matter?

Before you reply, here's what I have planned for if the build moves forward:
- Over build the motor. Pretty much a given considering our rod bearings and VANOS bolts have a life span shorter than Gordon Ramsay's temper.
- ECU. This is one of the top reasons we see s54's fail; just decides to fry. Standalone is a must.
- Water/Meth. Because we don't want the engine to be as hot as Caitlyn Jenner. Clearly doesn't end well.


Or just get a supercharger... lol
No one has pulled off a successful Z4M turbo build with perhaps one exception . ECU and more importantly wiring harness is totally different than the E46 . Would need to be a full custom stand alone ECU and wiring harness that plus no clear hardware kit = stupid project to undertake lol . My ESS supercharged z4M had 30k hard track miles before needing a rebuild . The block is cast iron literally , in E46 turbo applications it is seeing 800whp plus without problems . For a supercharger build you need new rod bearings , other than that the stock internals are solid, but it depends on your power targets .
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2015, 07:45 PM   #4
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Have you ever driven a supercharged Z4M (serious question)? Traction is a problem until 3rd or 4th gear, depending on tires and outside air temps.

There is no issue pushing the S54 to 500+ whp. These engines are fuel quality limited up to a point. The issue isn't even in getting a stand alone to work. It's getting all the other gadgets to work with a stand alone.

Mike Essa's drift car was an S54 turbo swapped into a 2.5i. Of course it wasn't street legal, and hardly any Z4 mechanicals were left. But it worked for what he wanted it to do. To have a car like that on the street... well, it's a waste of money, as it ditches a lot of the OEM BMWness that makes these cars special.

Have you ever owned a forced induction vehicle? Was it heavily modified? I'm of the opinion that reliability is the most important aspect, and I would gladly leave 50 horsepower for a 100% turn key solution that had been extensively tested and behaved like stock. I've been on both ends - sold a kit with all kinds of bugs, and bought cars/kits that were totally sorted. After a while, having the car stall in the cold, act funky under certain conditions, throw lean/rich codes, etc. burns you out, and you start to question why you aren't being paid for your time or use of your vehicle as a test car.

A turbo kit would be nice, but the price of entry just isn't worth it IMHO.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2015, 09:30 PM   #5
seank
enthusiast
seank's Avatar
48
Rep
1,695
Posts

Drives: e30 m3,e90 wagon,sprinter,z4m
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: sacramento, ca

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubsesd View Post
Any more and you will have a hard time putting it down and making it useful imo
Now you know how i feel going to work everyday. It is very challenging.
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2015, 02:19 AM   #6
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
701
Rep
7,850
Posts

Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubsesd View Post
I don't know what you are willing to spend or how much time and patience you have reserved, but i drove a vf 570 equipped z4m with a custom built rear diff and cams, custom tune and injectors....and it was more than enough power. Any more and you will have a hard time putting it down and making it useful imo
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
Have you ever driven a supercharged Z4M (serious question)? Traction is a problem until 3rd or 4th gear, depending on tires and outside air temps.

There is no issue pushing the S54 to 500+ whp. These engines are fuel quality limited up to a point. The issue isn't even in getting a stand alone to work. It's getting all the other gadgets to work with a stand alone.

A turbo kit would be nice, but the price of entry just isn't worth it IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seank View Post
Now you know how i feel going to work everyday. It is very challenging.
To make use of the power I think 305s or even 325 (turbo application for an ///M due to torque) rear tires are needed-for street in particular. They won't fit of course. But look at what the last built of (07 - 12) Corvette and Porsches (RWD) run stock: 305/325 rear. I was hoping that with 3d rendering and fabrication someone might find a way to create a nice looking rear fender section into the bumper. But that isn't some Slek 20k price tag (FRP or even some more stout plastics). Steam rollers would make that power eminently more useful.
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2015, 05:55 AM   #7
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

either way i still think the road bearings need to be upgrade on ANY FI car... As soon as i get the funds together i will be doing this , my car only has 12k so I'm not worried YET... but its something that needs doing as maintenance imo, especially if you drive the car hard, which i DO.
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2015, 10:40 AM   #8
UntzUntzUntz
Lieutenant
UntzUntzUntz's Avatar
United_States
126
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: 21 M2 Comp
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (2)

Thank you guys for your reply I really appreciate it.

Looks like the biggest challenge is going to be the electronics and the C word... Cost. Let's not mention the C word right now it brings chills down my spine just thinking about it.

Electronics is probably the hardest part in these types of builds. Not to mention tuning afterwards which I can imagine taking a year to perfect. It's a challenge but I think that's what drives me to do it. Oh god I know this feeling right now. It's my brain telling me "the hell is wrong with you!!" and my guts whispering "cmon, just try one PSI of boost"

To answer your question, Pokey, I haven't driven a supercharged z4 yet but I have driven other FI cars that break traction on 3rd and sometimes 4th gears. Stupid fast but man does that put a smile to your face and liquids in your pants. Honestly, that's kind of my goal... not really a death sentence of +1,000whp but instead projecting more than 650whp. And you're right about losing what makes these cars so unique. Which is not my intent but is something to consider before sacrificing something great like that. Thank you, didn't think of that.

Beedub that's super low miles!! rod bearings should be upgraded on any s54 over 90k miles. I've seen some cars with bearings issues around the same miles my car currently has, 50k. Pretty much a given.

This has been on my mind because I still have my old e39 528i just collecting dust. Never sold it because it's worth far more than $2,500 for me. Very reliable car I can daily drive. That being said, I can afford the time to put this as a long term project. And let's mention the C word again, cost would be menacing but taking it slow would help. With access to a lift, wholesalers, friends, family, and contacts being in the mechanic and body business, it gives an advantage to pull this off without pulling off an arm and a leg.

Man it sucks to be in the most expensive hobby.

Oh and a few things I want to touch on, how's the fuel delivery on our cars? Would the pump or injectors handle the output? And besides for the engine, I've heard we have pretty solid transmissions but it won't be necessary to upgrade anything more than a performance clutch/flywheel kit on them, correct? And finally, how's the VANOS reacting with all this? Would the bolts just give out at any given time?

Last edited by UntzUntzUntz; 06-03-2015 at 02:02 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2015, 11:28 AM   #9
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2015, 11:31 AM   #10
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

he was clearly so close but in the end he had to admit defeat.... He went s/C which imo works on this car so well and totally suits the character of the car! It literally feels like a big motor swap, perfect.

__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2015, 01:20 PM   #11
UntzUntzUntz
Lieutenant
UntzUntzUntz's Avatar
United_States
126
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: 21 M2 Comp
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (2)

Why get so close and just throw it all out the window? I just sent the guy a message. My guess is HPF was working on it around the time the company went south. HPF never finished a proper build so he switched over to a supercharged setup. That's my guess but let's wait and see what the real reason is.

In other news, I contacted a shop called Auto Talent. Some of the FI cars I've driven have taken it there. Anyone have any experience with them? They claim to have done "a few successful" turbo builds on e46 m3's. Never a Z4. But from what they were telling me they seemed pretty confident and knowledgeable in what they're doing. Specifically the electronics. Theirs a guy that knows more about s54's so when he's back in the office I'ma give a call back.
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2015, 03:14 PM   #12
dubsesd
#dubspec
dubsesd's Avatar
No_Country
6317
Rep
5,200
Posts

Drives: G05 X5/ 2016 F80 M3 INDVL
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa

iTrader: (2)

S54 in the m3 has completely different electronics than a s54 z4m
__________________
LCI ///F80 M3 Individual Atlantis Metallic / Black Full / Carbon Cermics / 6MT
MPE / M Performance & Carbon package / KW v3 / 20" HRE R101LW / 20" HRE 527s / Michelin PSS / 20% tint / 3d Design / Streckenn splitters / OEM GTS hood / EAS Carbon seatbacks / Carbon RKP sideskirt / Bootmod3 / M Performance Tri color alcantara / AWE S Flow
instagram: @ dubsesd
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2015, 03:40 PM   #13
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by UntzUntzUntz View Post
Why get so close and just throw it all out the window? I just sent the guy a message. My guess is HPF was working on it around the time the company went south. HPF never finished a proper build so he switched over to a supercharged setup. That's my guess but let's wait and see what the real reason is.

In other news, I contacted a shop called Auto Talent. Some of the FI cars I've driven have taken it there. Anyone have any experience with them? They claim to have done "a few successful" turbo builds on e46 m3's. Never a Z4. But from what they were telling me they seemed pretty confident and knowledgeable in what they're doing. Specifically the electronics. Theirs a guy that knows more about s54's so when he's back in the office I'ma give a call back.
I know them. For a while, the guy that started Technik (now defunct) worked there... not sure if he still does.

I had my AA tune done there maybe 5 years ago. They do have knowledge, but I got the impression some of the cars had been there for a while, so be prepared for that. They had Ferraris, a Ford GT, turbo Lamborghinis, a 1000+ horsepower 300ZX, etc. My Z4M was the econo car of the group. In my opinion, they can do it depending on your budget, but plan for the car to be down for more than 6 months (1-2 years is probably accurate), and the cost to be north of $30k for stock internals... even more for a built motor. I would say they are one of the few shops with the know-how. I just doubt their ability to get it back to you in a timely fashion, because a PITA Z4M isn't high on the priority list when you're fighting for shop time with modified exotics.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2015, 01:21 AM   #14
Beedub
Major General
United Kingdom
423
Rep
5,327
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UntzUntzUntz View Post
Why get so close and just throw it all out the window? I just sent the guy a message. My guess is HPF was working on it around the time the company went south. HPF never finished a proper build so he switched over to a supercharged setup. That's my guess but let's wait and see what the real reason is.

In other news, I contacted a shop called Auto Talent. Some of the FI cars I've driven have taken it there. Anyone have any experience with them? They claim to have done "a few successful" turbo builds on e46 m3's. Never a Z4. But from what they were telling me they seemed pretty confident and knowledgeable in what they're doing. Specifically the electronics. Theirs a guy that knows more about s54's so when he's back in the office I'ma give a call back.
to get that setup he had to swap to the e46 electrics and drop vanos. I'm guessing it just wasn't working well in the end, S/C for the z4m is really perfect it compliments the whole setup so well rather than changing the mantra of the car, it also gets expensive however....
__________________
Z4MR VT2 - Clubsport build.
Multi award winning Detailing | Wrap | PPF specialists UK based - www.topwrapz.com
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2015, 02:48 AM   #15
UntzUntzUntz
Lieutenant
UntzUntzUntz's Avatar
United_States
126
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: 21 M2 Comp
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (2)

Looks like everyone I ask goes to the same conclusion as you guys say, supercharger. It's a last resort but I'm not giving up that easily.

I think it'll be a good idea to ask Auto Talent, but wouldn't it still function close to original if I use the OEM ECU during idle period and use a piggyback ECU to control the fuel after a certain RPM? Only thing I'm not too sure about is the timing so that might be something I might have an answer tomorrow once I call them. Also if the fuel injectors and/or the fuel pump would need to be upgraded.

Seems logical to me but it can never be that easy. We shall find out tomorrow.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2015, 06:29 AM   #16
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UntzUntzUntz
Looks like everyone I ask goes to the same conclusion as you guys say, supercharger. It's a last resort but I'm not giving up that easily.

I think it'll be a good idea to ask Auto Talent, but wouldn't it still function close to original if I use the OEM ECU during idle period and use a piggyback ECU to control the fuel after a certain RPM? Only thing I'm not too sure about is the timing so that might be something I might have an answer tomorrow once I call them. Also if the fuel injectors and/or the fuel pump would need to be upgraded.

Seems logical to me but it can never be that easy. We shall find out tomorrow.
It's not that easy , it's definitely custom standalone ECU to get a turbo set up to work and the Z4m is totally different wiring wise from an E46 m3 as well as exhaust differences,motor packaging , eat. People have poured 10's of thousands into Z4M's and never gotten a turbo to work . It's seriously not a good idea man , stop ...... . You can get a 100% reliable built motor supercharged Z4M that is daily drive able and makes 550 hp or you can spend twice the money and have a car that will never run, the choice is yours lol .
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2015, 06:31 AM   #17
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by seank
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubsesd View Post
Any more and you will have a hard time putting it down and making it useful imo
Now you know how i feel going to work everyday. It is very challenging.
You guys just have to daily with 285 Sport cups like me
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2015, 04:53 PM   #18
UntzUntzUntz
Lieutenant
UntzUntzUntz's Avatar
United_States
126
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: 21 M2 Comp
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (2)

You have a point gmd. All of you made great points. I'm glad I got your guys' insight before making a final decision. I was getting close to pulling the trigger. For now she's staying stock until it's time for new bearings.

Thank you once again
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2015, 05:17 PM   #19
NickyC
Lieutenant General
NickyC's Avatar
17351
Rep
10,597
Posts

Drives: M4 CS. Former G82, x2 F82, F80
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacked out of my mind

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by seank View Post
Now you know how i feel going to work everyday. It is very challenging.
Oh c'mon. I had Supra with a T-88 in it and it wasn't "challenging" until I hit 23psi at 80mph.

Even worse, I had an MR2 Turbo with a 20g pushing close to 500rwhp. That thing is a deathboat compared to the Z4M and I never had a problem.

Stop being so dramatic, these are street cars after all! ;P

OP, if you want to go fast, sell the Z4M and get something else. To me this car is about everything but brutal acceleration, I have no desire to make mine any quicker.
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2015, 07:08 PM   #20
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC
Quote:
Originally Posted by seank View Post
Now you know how i feel going to work everyday. It is very challenging.
Oh c'mon. I had Supra with a T-88 in it and it wasn't "challenging" until I hit 23psi at 80mph.

Even worse, I had an MR2 Turbo with a 20g pushing close to 500rwhp. That thing is a deathboat compared to the Z4M and I never had a problem.

Stop being so dramatic, these are street cars after all! ;P

OP, if you want to go fast, sell the Z4M and get something else. To me this car is about everything but brutal acceleration, I have no desire to make mine any quicker.
Yes yes. Very true. A mildly blown C6 Z06 will put down as much power as a Z4M with $50k in mods. There's squeezing the power out of the motor; getting the electronics to mate up; getting the power down; and having a short chassis meant to rotate, keep up with all of it. Better to add a proven supercharger while still enjoying everything that makes this car special.

There comes a point when more power isn't useful.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2015, 10:05 PM   #21
UntzUntzUntz
Lieutenant
UntzUntzUntz's Avatar
United_States
126
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: 21 M2 Comp
Join Date: May 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post


Oh c'mon. I had Supra with a T-88 in it and it wasn't "challenging" until I hit 23psi at 80mph.

Even worse, I had an MR2 Turbo with a 20g pushing close to 500rwhp. That thing is a deathboat compared to the Z4M and I never had a problem.

Stop being so dramatic, these are street cars after all! ;P

OP, if you want to go fast, sell the Z4M and get something else. To me this car is about everything but brutal acceleration, I have no desire to make mine any quicker.
That's one lineup! Is the MR2 the sketchiest car or what lol

The reason everyone finds traction an issue is because of the torque the supercharger puts down. In comparison with the turbo, you probably won't experience that with that as much. Maybe if someone had a turbo build they would've backed me up! But no

I agree. The Z4 dominates all grounds up until you start making it faster. That's where the road ends I suppose. *starts looking for e30's and s85's*
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2015, 09:56 AM   #22
pokeybritches
Colonel
pokeybritches's Avatar
United_States
479
Rep
2,782
Posts

Drives: ESS/G-Power Z4M, VF Z4, 996tt
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [10.00]
2006 BMW Z4M  [8.50]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [9.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by UntzUntzUntz View Post
The reason everyone finds traction an issue is because of the torque the supercharger puts down. In comparison with the turbo, you probably won't experience that with that as much. Maybe if someone had a turbo build they would've backed me up! But no
Actually, at equal boost levels, a centrifugal supercharger generally puts out less peak torque than any of the major forced induction mods (centrifugal, roots, twin screw, turbo).

Horsepower = torque * rpm / 5252

To produce more power over time (horsepower), you can either increase the "boom" (torque) each time a cylinder fires, or increase the number of times that boom occurs (rpm). The reason turbo cars generally have more power throughout the rpm band is because they produce more torque.

The S54 gets its power (and character) through its the sky high redline. For years, BMW M division shunned turbos, and opted instead to design cars to handle increased rpm rather than high torque. This requires tight tolerances and exotic materials, and reduced engine reliability (rpm is an engine killer)... but makes for a very exciting and peaky car. They finally caved when rpm couldn't be realistically increased further, yet they had to produce more power to remain relevant and competitive. The S54 was the final, maxed out, ultimate iteration of the old school M division's high rpm vision.

Like most street engines, the S54 becomes less efficient the higher you rev it (torque falls off as rpm increases, because the engine isn't able to fully replace the used air in a cylinder with fresh air). A centrifugal supercharger adds torque back where it normally would start to fall off. It keeps with the character of the car. The traits that make it spectacular aren't lost.

The reason I think that Frankensteining the car into something it wasn't intended to be (like a 60-130 mph record holder) is a bad idea, is because you can get there so much cheaper with another platform, and you would have to give up most of what makes this car so awesome. It's like taking a guy who successfully competed in American Ninja Warrior, and putting him on a workout plan to bench 4 plates. He could get there with a lot of time and effort... but why? He certainly wouldn't be lean and agile enough to do what he used to do (which very few others could do). Once you swap to a clutch that can handle the torque, put on some massive tires and do suspension/body work to handle the power, and throw in some turbo lag... try and do an autocross. I'm not saying that a 650 whp car isn't fun, but I think there are better ways to get there. In this car, a lot of what you're paying for are the things other cars struggle to achieve.
__________________


VF Engineering Z4 3.0i, ESS Z4M, G-Power Z4M, 996 Turbo
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:34 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST