ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Roadster and Coupe > General BMW Z4 Forum
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-21-2018, 09:46 PM   #1
KevinC
your average JAMF
KevinC's Avatar
United_States
3076
Rep
4,082
Posts

Drives: '21 M2 Comp, '19 Golf R
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cochise County, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
"Made in Germany"



Here's something I've pondered for years. The VIN stickers in the door jamb of the Z4/Z4M usually say "MADE IN USA", like this (this was from my original Z4MC):



But - some of them say "MADE IN GERMANY", including my "new" '08 that I just acquired ...



What's up with that? We KNOW that ALL E85/E86 production was in Spartanburg, there's no doubt about it - there were no Z4's assembled in Germany, period. But I wonder why these stickers go both ways for some reason?

Things that make you go "hmmmm".
__________________
'21 M2 Comp
'19 Golf R
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2018, 08:35 AM   #2
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Perhaps the VIN tag itself was made in each respective place?
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2018, 10:14 AM   #3
KevinC
your average JAMF
KevinC's Avatar
United_States
3076
Rep
4,082
Posts

Drives: '21 M2 Comp, '19 Golf R
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cochise County, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Perhaps the VIN tag itself was made in each respective place?
Perhaps, but would seem kinda silly to print the country of origin of the STICKER on it when the whole purpose of the thing is to identify the car.

Speaking of identifying the car, State Farm only identifies it as a "Z4". On the title, the State of Arizona identifies it properly as an "M", without any Z4 reference. Probably saving me some insurance $$.
__________________
'21 M2 Comp
'19 Golf R
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2018, 11:16 AM   #4
racerbruce
Brigadier General
racerbruce's Avatar
3849
Rep
3,004
Posts

Drives: 21 X3 & 13 335is E93
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (1)

VIN sticker

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
Perhaps, but would seem kinda silly to print the country of origin of the STICKER on it when the whole purpose of the thing is to identify the car.

Speaking of identifying the car, State Farm only identifies it as a "Z4". On the title, the State of Arizona identifies it properly as an "M", without any Z4 reference. Probably saving me some insurance $$.
My State Farm insurance card references my Z4M only as an "M"

Your VIN stickers are really interesting....anyone else out there with "MADE IN GERMANY"??

My 2007 model's build date was 17 Nov 2006 and the VIN sticker says "MADE IN USA"
__________________
Racerbruce
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2018, 12:46 PM   #5
XMetal
Colonel
XMetal's Avatar
United_States
1097
Rep
2,846
Posts

Drives: Anything
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 Z4M Coupe  [10.00]
2018 Audi S3  [0.00]
2004 X5  [8.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
Perhaps, but would seem kinda silly to print the country of origin of the STICKER on it when the whole purpose of the thing is to identify the car.

Speaking of identifying the car, State Farm only identifies it as a "Z4". On the title, the State of Arizona identifies it properly as an "M", without any Z4 reference. Probably saving me some insurance $$.
My State Farm insurance card references my Z4M only as an "M"

Your VIN stickers are really interesting....anyone else out there with "MADE IN GERMANY"??

My 2007 model's build date was 17 Nov 2006 and the VIN sticker says "MADE IN USA"
My '08 also says Made in Germany. I think that label depends on the origins of the overall content in the car, not where its being assembled
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2018, 01:00 PM   #6
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

The VIN itself indicates the country of origin.

__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2018, 02:00 PM   #7
racerbruce
Brigadier General
racerbruce's Avatar
3849
Rep
3,004
Posts

Drives: 21 X3 & 13 335is E93
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (1)

VIN sticker

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
The VIN itself indicates the country of origin.

Both of KevinC's VIN's show country and region/maker as "5U"....and my 2007 Z4MR shows "5U".

Kevin has a made in USA and a made in Germany but both have the same country and region/maker info....any thoughts??
__________________
Racerbruce
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2018, 03:05 PM   #8
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
Both of KevinC's VIN's show country and region/maker as "5U"....and my 2007 Z4MR shows "5U".

Kevin has a made in USA and a made in Germany but both have the same country and region/maker info....any thoughts??
maybe its where the label was made
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2018, 04:07 PM   #9
rockstar93
Lieutenant
rockstar93's Avatar
Canada
321
Rep
528
Posts

Drives: E86 Z4MC; E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Cambridge, Ontario

iTrader: (8)

Garage List
From what I learned through work, the first 3 digits of the VIN indicate where the car was assembled, but the "Made in..." line is based on content rules. For 2008 BMW may have sourced more parts from Germany and thus could not be sold as "Made in USA".

I do know the entire engine/drivetrain was produced in Germany and mated with the chassis in S. Carolina.
__________________
E46 M3 Coupe 6MT Jet Black/Cinnamon GONE
E85 Z4M Roadster Imola Red/Black GONE
E90 M3 Sedan 6MT Jerez Black/Fox Red GONE
E86 Z4M Coupe Interlagos Blue/Black
E92 M3 Coupe 6MT Interlagos Blue/Fox Red - Build Thread
Appreciate 2
wdb4673.00
inTgr8r2421.50
      11-23-2018, 10:47 AM   #10
racerbruce
Brigadier General
racerbruce's Avatar
3849
Rep
3,004
Posts

Drives: 21 X3 & 13 335is E93
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (1)

VIN sticker

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockstar93 View Post
From what I learned through work, the first 3 digits of the VIN indicate where the car was assembled, but the "Made in..." line is based on content rules. For 2008 BMW may have sourced more parts from Germany and thus could not be sold as "Made in USA".

I do know the entire engine/drivetrain was produced in Germany and mated with the chassis in S. Carolina.
This makes complete sense.
__________________
Racerbruce
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2018, 10:18 AM   #11
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16954
Rep
18,582
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockstar93 View Post
From what I learned through work, the first 3 digits of the VIN indicate where the car was assembled, but the "Made in..." line is based on content rules. For 2008 BMW may have sourced more parts from Germany and thus could not be sold as "Made in USA".

I do know the entire engine/drivetrain was produced in Germany and mated with the chassis in S. Carolina.
I think this is partially the right answer. However, I don't think the part content changed significantly in between the 11 months the two cars were produced from each other, especially at the end of the E85/86 production. I think BMW decided upon further review to change the country of origin on the Manufacturer's model identification label. The US Federal Trade Commission is responsible for enforcing deceptive labeling practices for products sold in the USA. The FTC also requires just three end products to designate part content on it's product label, automobiles, fur, and textile products. Further, these three products are subject to separate Federal labeling acts. Part content is based on the cost of the parts counting toward production of the vehicle.

I think in the case with the Spartanburg built Z4 probably had 65% German part content based on the AALA label for other BMWs currently built in the plant (X3, X5, X6) and most all of that percentage counted for in the cost of the engine and transmission. But that's different than the FTC's definitions for labeling a car as "Made in the USA", which considers part cost content along with where the car final assembly occurs (as content of the overall production costs for producing the car). It might be as simple as by October of 2007, the cost ratio of the part cost content of the Z4 (65% German) surpassed the cost content for the Sparanburg assembly line production cost and drove the change in the label (just a guess on my part).

Kudos to KevinC for bringing this issue to light. I find it quite interesting and contemplating. I've really never paid that much attention to the manufacturer's label on my Z4 3.0si Coupe, built 11/2007, so I don't know what it says. I'm going to check later today. Interestingly, I have two cars built in Spartanburg, built over a decade apart from each other, so I'm going to see what each label says. The neat fact between my two cars, the Z4 and Z3 roadster, is the last three digits of the VIN are exactly the same.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 2
Vanne1593.00
      11-24-2018, 10:36 AM   #12
racerbruce
Brigadier General
racerbruce's Avatar
3849
Rep
3,004
Posts

Drives: 21 X3 & 13 335is E93
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (1)

Thank you -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I think this is partially the right answer. However, I don't think the part content changed significantly in between the 11 months the two cars were produced from each other, especially at the end of the E85/86 production. I think BMW decided upon further review to change the country of origin on the Manufacturer's model identification label. The US Federal Trade Commission is responsible for enforcing deceptive labeling practices for products sold in the USA. The FTC also requires just three end products to designate part content on it's product label, automobiles, fur, and textile products. Further, these three products are subject to separate Federal labeling acts. Part content is based on the cost of the parts counting toward production of the vehicle.

I think in the case with the Spartanburg built Z4 probably had 65% German part content based on the AALA label for other BMWs currently built in the plant (X3, X5, X6) and most all of that percentage counted for in the cost of the engine and transmission. But that's different than the FTC's definitions for labeling a car as "Made in the USA", which considers part cost content along with where the car final assembly occurs (as content of the overall production costs for producing the car). It might be as simple as by October of 2007, the cost ratio of the part cost content of the Z4 (65% German) surpassed the cost content for the Sparanburg assembly line production cost and drove the change in the label (just a guess on my part).

Kudos to KevinC for bringing this issue to light. I find it quite interesting and contemplating. I've really never paid that much attention to the manufacturer's label on my Z4 3.0si Coupe, built 11/2007, so I don't know what it says. I'm going to check later today. Interestingly, I have two cars built in Spartanburg, built over a decade apart from each other, so I'm going to see what each label says. The neat fact between my two cars, the Z4 and Z3 roadster, is the last three digits of the VIN are exactly the same.
Thank you for your acumen and detailed explanation.
__________________
Racerbruce
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2018, 04:30 PM   #13
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16954
Rep
18,582
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

So this was interesting. I checked both the '97 Z3 and '08 Z4 manufacturer stickers...

Neither one had any country of manufacture stamped on them. So the country of manufacture now is even more intriguing as it seems only the "M" Z-cars have such designation.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2018, 12:13 PM   #14
wspohn
Private
Canada
79
Rep
93
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver BC

iTrader: (0)

The 'Made in' is a joke. The Made in USA label applies also to those manufactured in Canada - I used to give a friend with a Camaro made in Ontario a hard time and told him my BMW was more American than his GM product. The 2018 'made in America' list had 4 out of the top 10 US content cars as Honda and Acura.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ars/724724002/

These are among the top 10 cars manufactured in Canada:

Dodge Grand Caravan
Chevrolet Equinox
Ford Edge
Chrysler Pacifica
Dodge Charger
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2018, 05:19 PM   #15
wdb
dances with roads
wdb's Avatar
4673
Rep
4,090
Posts

Drives: '07 E86, '02 996, '95 Seven
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: the perimeter

iTrader: (4)

Assembly != content. An engine, transmission, electronics and drivetrain from Germany, shipped to the US and plunked into a body and interior sourced here, is not exactly "made in USA". It's about the percentage of content actually produced in the US vs. elsewhere.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:48 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST