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      05-05-2011, 01:44 AM   #1
CobraR1339
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Competition Belt Mounting?

What are you doing to mount a 6 point belt set up in the cars ?

Who has the gear I can purchase ?

Searches don't turn up much. Or I am not using the right terms
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      05-05-2011, 04:13 AM   #2
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I plan on installing a rollcage behind the seats and in the back of the vehicle for this purpose. I dont plan on using the car for competition events, just HPDE track days. There are a few posts of cars with cages here:

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469361

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthre...=423913&page=3

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=380010
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Last edited by z4mnyc; 05-05-2011 at 04:44 AM..
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      05-05-2011, 10:07 AM   #3
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I'm considering making a bolt-in style bar/rear section for the car, but need a few more interested parties in order to rationalize making the jig's etc off my car. How many people would be interested in such a product if we could keep it in the in the $1400-1800 range after powdercoating ? We've recently done a bar for the Nissan GTR that is a complete bolt-in style, the Coupe would be a bit more difficult scenerio but surely something that we could do.
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      05-05-2011, 01:02 PM   #4
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Think I'm going with a custom permanent installation
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      05-05-2011, 01:21 PM   #5
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6 point harnesses needs to be attached to bars in conjunction with fixed back seats. There's no "fancy" solution around this.

Improperly installed harnesses are no safer than stock 3 point belts on stock seats.
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      05-05-2011, 02:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Improperly installed harnesses are no safer than stock 3 point belts on stock seats.
+1

They can even be worse.

OP, are you attemping to use the 6-point harness with the stock seats or race seats? Do you have a solid harness bar?

The anti-submarine belts need to be attached to the floor pan in a secure manner. The attachment points/belt angles matter. Did your harness come with attachment hardware--it should have. You need to drill into your floor pan and secure the large round connectors with plates on the other end to distribute the load.

If none of this makes sense to you, call HMS Motorsports and ask for guidance/hardware.
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      05-05-2011, 03:59 PM   #7
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So how are you all getting around the requirement most HPDE organizers have for 5-6 point belt systems, fire ext , etc.

I have a ton of seat time in other cars. Belts get you more connected rather than sliding around. I don't care how good the stock seats are, there is a measurable difference.

Here is what the corvette folks do, Porsche is similar.

http://www.bkauto.com/corvette/r1115.php

I have used this system and it works great. Behind the seats's the two cars are similar.
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      05-05-2011, 04:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraR1339 View Post
So how are you all getting around the requirement most HPDE organizers have for 5-6 point belt systems, fire ext , etc.

I have a ton of seat time in other cars. Belts get you more connected rather than sliding around. I don't care how good the stock seats are, there is a measurable difference.

Here is what the corvette folks do, Porsche is similar.

http://www.bkauto.com/corvette/r1115.php

I have used this system and it works great. Behind the seats's the two cars are similar.
The only DEs that I participate in do not require 5 or 6 point harnesses. As far as I know, neither does NASA nor Speedventure in my area. 5 or 6 point harnesses aren't even required in TIME TRIALS.

Unless I can do harnesses properly, I'd rather stay with the stock airbag/belt because it's safer than improperly installed harnesses, IMNSHO.
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      05-05-2011, 04:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
The only DEs that I participate in do not require 5 or 6 point harnesses. As far as I know, neither does NASA nor Speedventure in my area. 5 or 6 point harnesses aren't even required in TIME TRIALS.

Unless I can do harnesses properly, I'd rather stay with the stock airbag/belt because it's safer than improperly installed harnesses, IMNSHO.
Totally agree Properly is right.

NASA requires belts in various run groups as does SCCA.
Arron is more loose about it at SV, true. The Cobra owners required it at one time, AROSC, PCA, SVT, TCCA, FGT, Silver State all had these as requirements at one time.

Maybe times have changed and I am assuming too much these days. At Mojave a couple weeks ago a lot of stock belts in the lower mph classes. The 200+ class required, belts, Fire Ext, Hans, wrist straps. Yet a guy on a bike had a helmet and leathers..go figure.


So if I come to the BMW/Cobra owners event I don't need belts...is that correct?.

...Always wiling to save some bucks and effort if it is not really required.

In some cars I agree stock may be safer too.

But I still hate leather seats at the track, suede and cloth holds you in real nice.

For most impact situations where you stay right side up, nothing like being belted in tight. Upside down without a roll bar I agree stock may be best.
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      05-05-2011, 04:54 PM   #10
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I can assure you that NASA NE does NOT require 6 point belts unless you are literally racing. You'd pass tech in any HPDE group with the stock 3-point system. Where did you see that they require it? Are you sure you are looking at HPDE requirements? Or are the requirements in your area different somehow?
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      05-05-2011, 04:57 PM   #11
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BMW CCA events only require equal restraint for driver AND passenger. BMW CCA Club Racing do require 5 point harnesses I believe, but any self respecting racing sanctioning body is going to require the basic cage, fixed seat, and harness. POC (Porsche) does not require harnesses either.

I was not aware NASA require anything more than stock restraints but it's been a very long time since I've been at a NASA event.
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      05-05-2011, 04:58 PM   #12
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Most of the HPDE organizations I run with also don't require 5/6 point, even in advanced solo. Some of the "private" track day groups do require them but only in the highest "race prepped" car groups.

That has been my only complaint so far, now that I'm looking to add fixed back seats to prevent sliding all over the place, it's a slippery slope that requires cutting up quite a bit to get a proper bar in. I'm getting closer to caving in and doing this, but it's a tough pill compared to other cars where I've been able to buy a bolt-in bar and use that with seats (such as the GMG Bar in our 996tt, etc).
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      05-05-2011, 05:43 PM   #13
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I think the difference is competition. A time trail is classified as a competition, even though the cars are out 30 seconds or so apart. Actually safer IMO than a HPDE lap. This is the GRC for POC. As far as I know NASA , AROSC, SVT is the same.

But for a HDPE I guess not, I stand corrected. Thanks, sorry for wasting your time.

To be honest I have been driving a long time and never thought about driving on track without a belt system. My first instructors rules were "Belts, Tires and Alignment, Seat Time, Dependability mods, Catch my times and then mod for power, more chassis, etc. This guy could easily top the most expensive exotic vehicles newer drivers with a crap car on less than half the power.

POC GCR - Below

Lap belts with shoulder strap required as a minimum for Short Track events. Time Trial and Racing events require driver and passenger to have approved 5 or 6-point competition harness with 3” competition lap belts, minimum 3” shoulder harnesses and minimum one 2” anti- submarine strap. FIA-approved harnesses with 3”shoulder belts with a narrower 2” section for head and neck restraint systems and FIA or SFI-approved 2” lap belts will be allowed.
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      05-07-2011, 01:56 PM   #14
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Stock 3-point belts with stock seats are acceptable in NASA Time Trial.

As stated, any change to a different belt system should be comprehensive; ie seats, belts, attachment bars in the CORRECT positions, etc.
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