Carbon Fiber (CF) Z4 Coupe roofs-Feeler participants

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by GCDC

I'm still in for this. I would like to see what the different weave patterns look like from a few feet away.

I see what you mean, as in something more than just the close-ups of the weave alone. More along the lines of shots with body lines etc.

[GCDC]

Exactly, it'll give us a little better idea of how it will look on the car.

I'm leaning towards standard weave as it's easiest for me to picture.

[007MCoupe]

Originally Posted by Twisted Six

Hello folks. We're at that stage where I need to begin gathering everyones info as posted below in private messages -(PM's).

Full name- John Doe
Best cell no.#-900-000-000
Shipping address-2222 twenty second st.- Bigtown USA-zip 00000
(business address's are often cheaper to ship to).
Final roof materials request or questions.

Please make sure your correctly listed and I've not missed anyone accidently.
Here is the most recent updated list from earlier this year.

This list of buyers last updated 5-30-13.

1)-Dark Schnitzer---------2x2 Twill-V-weave.
2)-inTgr8r----------------2x2 Twill-standard-weave
3)-VinnieAces------------ 2x2 Twill-V-weave (Maybe)
4)-cfine88----------------2x2 Twill -standard weave
5)-Finnegan--------------2x2 Twill - standard weave ?
6)-NEKO ---------------- 2x2 Twill-V-Weave
7)-mexicobmw------------1x1 Plain weave
8)-habitat412-------------1x1 Plain weave
9)-doktore----------------2x2 Twill V.
10)-RobMCoupe-----------2x2 Twill
11)- Jumbosock-----------2x2 Twill-standard-weave
12)-GCDC-----------------2x2 Twill - standard weave
13)-Urluz3n---------------2x2 Twill- standard weave
14)-2point0---------------2x2 Twill-V-weave
15)-GP20------------------2x2 Twill

Might want to make sure with everyone on this list that this is accurate. I see crfine's name on here and I know he sold his car, new baby and all. I don't know the user's name of the guy who bought it, but he's on the forums somewhere. Just an FYI

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by 007MCoupe

Might want to make sure with everyone on this list that this is accurate. I see crfine's name on here and I know he sold his car, new baby and all. I don't know the user's name of the guy who bought it, but he's on the forums somewhere. Just an FYI

Thanks for the heads-up on that. I'm not viewing threads as often as I'd like to catch up. I'll note this.
Updated list as of 6-4-13
1)-Dark Schnitzer---------2x2 Twill-V-weave.
2)-inTgr8r----------------2x2 Twill-standard-weave --------------------------( Info received)
3)-VinnieAces------------ 2x2 Twill-V-weave (Maybe)
4)-cfine88----------------2x2 Twill -standard weave--------------------------( car sold)
5)-Finnegan--------------2x2 Twill - standard weave ?
6)-NEKO ---------------- 2x2 Twill-V-Weave
7)-mexicobmw------------1x1 Plain weave
8)-habitat412-------------1x1 Plain weave
9)-doktore----------------2x2 Twill V.
10)-RobMCoupe-----------2x2 Twill----------------------------------------------( info received)
11)- Jumbosock-----------( doing moonroof instead)6-4-13
12)-GCDC-----------------2x2 Twill - standard weave
13)-Urluz3n---------------2x2 Twill- standard weave
14)-2point0---------------2x2 Twill-V-weave
15)-GP20------------------2x2 Twill-----------------------------------------------(info received)

[habitat412]

I think I would like to change mine to a 2x2 twill v weave. When do you think you will start production? Plus when do you need payment info and payment?

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by habitat412

I think I would like to change mine to a 2x2 twill v weave. When do you think you will start production? Plus when do you need payment info and payment?

Sure no problem. I've posted the adjustment below. Production has begun,however delayed somewhat due to the fact I've been forced to build a positive pressure spray booth to keep my business neighbors happy. It will also make spraying the clearcoats more perfect as well as post heat cured.

1)-Dark Schnitzer---------2x2 Twill-V-weave.
2)-inTgr8r----------------2x2 Twill-standard-weave --------------------------( Info received)
3)-VinnieAces------------ 2x2 Twill-V-weave (Maybe)
4)-cfine88----------------2x2 Twill -standard weave--------------------------( car sold)
5)-Finnegan--------------2x2 Twill - standard weave ?
6)-NEKO ---------------- 2x2 Twill-V-Weave
7)-mexicobmw------------1x1 Plain weave
8)-habitat412-------------1x1 Plain weave-changed to 2x2 Twill V-weave.
9)-doktore----------------2x2 Twill V.
10)-RobMCoupe-----------2x2 Twill----------------------------------------------( info received)
11)- Jumbosock-----------( doing moonroof instead)6-4-13
12)-GCDC-----------------2x2 Twill - standard weave
13)-Urluz3n---------------2x2 Twill- standard weave
14)-2point0---------------2x2 Twill-V-weave
15)-GP20------------------2x2 Twill-----------------------------------------------(info received)
06-06-2013 01:39 AM

[Semp]

Am I too late for this?

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by Semp

Am I too late for this?

I'll be closing the group buy price soon. You are welcome to join in. Just send me a PM with your contact info and phone number so I can register you.

[sabbanick]

Lets be fair and see some final pictures of product before you close up shop on the GB.

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by sabbanick

Lets be fair and see some final pictures of product before you close up shop on the GB.

Of course. My apologies for keeping folks hanging within regards to pix. I've been very busy with all of this.

[sabbanick]

No worries I'm just holding out till I see final product. May be perfect part to replace roof when I get roll cage installed.

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by sabbanick

No worries I'm just holding out till I see final product. May be perfect part to replace roof when I get roll cage installed.

Excellent news !

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by sabbanick

No worries I'm just holding out till I see final product. May be perfect part to replace roof when I get roll cage installed.

Side question - who's doing your cage?

[Gallardo Rosso]

I don't want to open a can of worms but.... Would you consider building a roof with a face sheet of any of these.

http://www.fibreglast.com/category/Patterned_Carbon_Fiber

I have several yards of Rook from a motorcycle project. Obviously only the face sheet needs to be patterned. Would also look cool as bare carbon interior skin (but noisier than a proper head liner).

It's might be a little too "loud" as an outer roof panel but not sure if it will blend with the curves of our roof.

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by Gallardo Rosso

I don't want to open a can of worms but.... Would you consider building a roof with a face sheet of any of these.

http://www.fibreglast.com/category/P...d_Carbon_Fiber

I have several yards of Rook from a motorcycle project. Obviously only the face sheet needs to be patterned. Would also look cool as bare carbon interior skin (but noisier than a proper head liner).

It's might be a little too "loud" as an outer roof panel but not sure if it will blend with the curves of our roof.

Almost any weave pattern can be used to suit ones taste. I can always order different ones per order with some delay and upcharge. The problem with some of the newer technical weaves is their nature to show print through which requires more clear coat than usual to keep a slick finish.

[Rev2Liv]

Do you have an official number for weight savings? Your previous estimate of 25lbs sounds optimistic in light of the fact that the E46 M3 CSL roof only saves 13.2lbs. How do your CF fabrication methods and technology differ from that of BMW. Are your methods superior or inferior? For the E46, much of the weight savings (33lbs) was derived from the deletion of the sunroof.


http://www.c5forum.com/forum/ubbthre...t&Number=90103



Do different CF finishes add weight to the final result?

With a CF roof panel, CF Trunk lid and hood, along with a Titanium exhaust, That's a 100lb + weight savings with bolt on mods!

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by Rev2Liv

Do you have an official number for weight savings? Your previous estimate of 25lbs sounds optimistic in light of the fact that the E46 M3 CSL roof only saves 13.2lbs. How do your CF fabrication methods and technology differ from that of BMW. Are your methods superior or inferior? For the E46, much of the weight savings (33lbs) was derived from the deletion of the sunroof.


http://www.c5forum.com/forum/ubbthre...t&Number=90103



Do different CF finishes add weight to the final result?

"With a CF roof panel, CF Trunk lid and hood, along with a Titanium exhaust, That's a 100lb + weight savings with bolt on mods!

Do you have an official number for weight savings? Your previous estimate of 25lbs sounds optimistic in light of the fact that the E46 M3 CSL roof only saves 13.2lbs."

Our aluminum roofs stripped weigh in a little over 19lbs. The final weight of my heaviest loaded roof is just under 8lbs. My lightest construction roof comes in at 6.5lbs.

Thats a loss of 59% and 66% respectfully unless my math is skewed.

"How do your CF fabrication methods and technology differ from that of BMW. Are your methods superior or inferior?"

If I upgrade my system of construction to match BMW's composite factory and work flow I'd price point the roofs beyond justification. And they would be barely better in the end, if at all......just faster to make. Making mine to order is flexible with a large amount of lay-up schedule control.

I'm building these with a dry laminate lay-up, under maximum vacuum and moisture and air removed fully. Top end resin systems .Post curing to a specific heat ramp-up/ramp down schedule and secondarily bonding with top shelf composite panel adhesives. I am spraying a high end automotive UV stable clear coat and also post curing, micro-fine sanding and polishing in specific light. I also don't believe BMW is using Stainless Steel fasteners as I am, rather mild steel.

"Do different CF finishes add weight to the final result?"

They can, although its negligible at worst.

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by Rev2Liv

http://www.c5forum.com/forum/ubbthre...t&Number=90103

Here is the article you linked to, so others can read it. Note, although they don't actually specify the metal roofs weight to compare, later on in the article they claim only 30% less weight with their methods or carbon experience.


I've managed to engineer a VERY stiff panel well below their figures. It was indeed hard, but I managed with specific material selections.


BMW Pushes Ahead With Carbon Fiber

By William Diem

WardsAuto.com, Jul 29 2003

MUNICH – BMW AG continues with research that could lead to a future vehicle with a body composed entirely of carbon fiber.


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MUNICH – BMW AG continues with research that could lead to a future vehicle with a body composed entirely of carbon fiber.

In a technology presentation to journalists here, BMW says the weight-savings of a carbon-fiber body and its associated fuel savings would offer significant lifecycle benefits.


M3 CSL has carbon-fiber
roof panel.
“BMW Group experts have determined that CFP (carbon-fiber reinforced-plastic) bodyshells or body structures, by reducing fuel consumption to an above-average extent during the use of a vehicle, are able to offer significant benefits in terms of their ecological balance," says a company document.

Most carbon-fiber components or body panels in the past have been built up by hand, covered with resin and “baked” in an oven-like autoclave. That method, however, suits only low-volume production.

Over the past two years, BMW has developed an automated process to make carbon-fiber parts, which it now is using for the roof of the BMW M3 CSL in a pilot project. (See related story: BMW Will Mass-Produce Carbon-Fiber Intensive Cars)

The part, made at BMW's Landshut plant, weighs 13.2 lbs. (6 kg) less than a steel roof and leaves the mold with a Class-A finish. The material is covered only with a clearcoat, which displays the tissue structure of the material.

Although the M3 CSL is a low-volume project – just 1,500-1,800 units between June and the end of production at year's end – it is providing experience with the automated process.

"It's not just carbon fiber," says a BMW spokesman in the U.K. "We are using various light plastics and other materials to reduce weight where they provide equal or better strength."

For example, BMW's new 6-Series coupe, he says, employs aluminum for the hood, the trunklid is in one kind of plastic composite, and the fenders use a different plastic.

The M3 CSL's carbon-fiber roof is made in pilot facilities at two Landshut technical centers – one for plastic body skins, and the other for the CFP material. Production is a 3-stage process:

Five layers of carbon fibers are placed on top of one another for pre-forming.

The pre-formed mat is placed in a giant RTM (resin transfer molding) press, where transparent epoxy resin is injected.

Finally, the roof hardens in the heated mold, is removed by a robot and coated by the clearcoat paint.
The automated procedure is five times faster than production by hand, says BMW.

Although volumes are low, the project is giving BMW additional production experience with carbon fiber that could see its use expanded to other structural parts in the future for higher-volume vehicles.

The body of a modern automobile accounts for 15%-20% of its overall weight, and carbon-fiber body parts weigh 30% less than aluminum and usually at least 50% less than steel. An all carbon-fiber body thus could reduce the overall weight of a vehicle by up to 10%, with no concession in terms of stiffness and body strength.

BMW has experience with one wholly carbon-fiber car – the Williams F1 BMW FW25 Formula 1 racer.
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[mpower1226]

Still awaiting for installed picture.

It is very hard to make decision based on picture of weave.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by mpower1226

Still awaiting for installed picture.

It is very hard to make decision based on picture of weave.

when I get mine you can see it in person

[Str8 RippiN]

Kinda want to fulfill Chris's order on the 2x2 roof, i need to see if i have any money left over first though. Also any estimates on an install cost? (roughly)

[mpower1226]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

when I get mine you can see it in person

Yes we need to do a little m get together!