Yellow BBK

[nekky]

I was a little confused as to you guys saying that BBK vs. OEM is the same until hard, repeated braking..

BBK *feels* completely different, and I agree with Finnegan re: feel & modulation.

Even the "cheap" Wilwoods (they were awesome, btw) on my boosted DC2 made a night and day difference in terms of how the car drove.

A lot has to do with pads too, but I think in general every BBK comes with pads that are more aggressive than stock.

Again, love the yellow Brembos man! That's the colour I'd pick in a heartbeat.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by nekky

I was a little confused as to you guys saying that BBK vs. OEM is the same until hard, repeated braking..

BBK *feels* completely different, and I agree with Finnegan re: feel & modulation.

Even the "cheap" Wilwoods (they were awesome, btw) on my boosted DC2 made a night and day difference in terms of how the car drove.

A lot has to do with pads too, but I think in general every BBK comes with pads that are more aggressive than stock.

Again, love the yellow Brembos man! That's the colour I'd pick in a heartbeat.

I'm not going to repeat what I've posted a thousand times on the internet AGAIN, but here's something new I will contribute.

I often times swap between my DTC-60s and my street pads (RacingBrake ET500 front, Cool Carbon ST rear) for auto-cross events, and there's absolutely no appreciable difference between the brake distance, especially for AX when I run my "street" tires. Is there a huge difference between the DTC-60 and the street pads? Yes. The DTC-60s will "lock-them-up" almost immediately if I'm not careful modulating the brakes and activate ABS early in the brake application.

I'm not going to go into the whole debate about benefits of BBKs. Again, been discussed thousands of times by people hundreds of times smarter than me with years more experience. What I WILL say is this. BBKs provide higher initial brake torque. The end result is 1/2 brake pedal movement with a BBK equals 2/3rd brake pedal movement on stock system with street pads. So, if you're not threshold braking while on street pads, it WILL feel like the BBK is stopping you oh so much quicker. But it's not. When you're threshold braking, or using ABS, both the street pads on OEM AND the BBK will stop you in the same distance for that first application.

The main difference, obviously, is the BBK's threshold comes much faster than the OEM system's threshold, for example, it may take 2/3rd pedal pressure on the BBK to reach the threshold of activating ABS, while on the OEM brake system on OEM pads, it will take 3/4 pedal pressure to reach threshold.

The ONLY time I've seen appreciable difference in actual braking distance, is when I switch from my street tires/street pads to my R-comps/DTC-60s. I mean, that's on the magnitude of 2-3 car length shorter in stopping distance from 100+ IMO.

[nekky]

[aaaafamily]

Originally Posted by The HACK

No it won't.

have you upgrade your brake?

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by aaaafamily

have you upgrade your brake?

Do you REALLY want to go there?

[dubsesd]

sooo....stock brakes with better pads are as good as a 6k bbk? gotcha. i can see what you are saying, and how the physics add up, but until you drive a car with an upgraded brake system, you wont understand. alot of people who dont have the knowledge you have about mechanical aspects, will describe the brakes as "braking faster".

OP, nice set of performance brakes you have there. enjoy them

[zubydafa]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Do you REALLY want to go there?

[zubydafa]

Originally Posted by dubsesd

sooo....stock brakes with better pads are as good as a 6k bbk? gotcha. i can see what you are saying, and how the physics add up, but until you drive a car with an upgraded brake system, you wont understand. alot of people who dont have the knowledge you have about mechanical aspects, will describe the brakes as "braking faster".

OP, nice set of performance brakes you have there. enjoy them

awesome brakes indeed. they look cool as all hell and i bet they feel fantastic.

i've done so much reading in the suspension and braking section of this forum recently. my oem brakes are cooked now at 50k miles so i've been searching for an overhaul - but i must say, they've been FANTASTIC at the track.

even in daily driving, i'm not sure the oem braking system can benefit that much from a bbk. obviously i can't say for certain because i haven't driven a bbk equipped z4m, but i'm not seeing where there would be room for the car to benefit in daily driving. the initial bite of the oem system is already so quick and firm. i've been running with a PCA club and the Z's brakes were amazing keeping up and late braking on 997s', caymans', occasional slow gt3 driver...

having been on the track and seeing what the oem braking system can do under serious serious abuse - you see that regardless of how much better your braking system is - you can't outbrake your tires. i'll test this next time around to see if i really need a bbk by putting some r-comps on the car with track pads. if i'm still activating abs without brake fade or a slushy pedal - what reason is there for spending that much money on a bbk when the oem system is working well with track duty abuse?

the test could also go the other way and i may find that my brakes are in fact NOT outbraking my tires - in which case stopping distance may benefit from a bbk.

my understanding of all this could be off...but the way i see it, a 6k bbk looks cool, but unless you're concerned about the 1-2 car lengths you'd save in your stopping distance coming down the back straight repeatedly at the track on your r-comps, it seems like an aesthetic mod more than a purposeful one.

i'm going the route of oem rotors (which are great) from tischer for 750, zrated performance friction pads for the street and some pfc 06 or 08 pads for the track. ate superblue brake fluid and stop tech ss brake lines.

[dubsesd]

What made you choose ate fluid? I've been debating ate over motul.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by dubsesd

What made you choose ate fluid? I've been debating ate over motul.

ate is not that great IMO & hate that blue dye

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

ate is not that great IMO & hate that blue dye

+1, managed to boil ATE blue at Summit last season. Switched to Motul 600 and haven't looked back since then. Cheap blanks + PFC 06 + SS lines + Motul 600 = awesome stopping power, no fade, and easy on rotors

[dubsesd]

Awesome. Motul 600 it is.

[Kgolf31]

Isn't Motul 600 more hygroscopic than Super Blue though?

PS - I wish I could find blanks...I hate the squeal from my HP+'s and I know it's from the drilled rotors.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Isn't Motul 600 more hygroscopic than Super Blue though?

PS - I wish I could find blanks...I hate the squeal from my HP+'s and I know it's from the drilled rotors.

How about slotted? Take it you've seen RB's group buy on slotted rotors (replaceable rings with reusable hats) right?

Motul is more hygroscopic. But if you're doing a flush before every track day, it doesn't matter that much.

ATE Type 200 (blue) comes in amber as well. Not that it matters much if you prefer other fluids like Motul.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

How about slotted? Take it you've seen RB's group buy on slotted rotors (replaceable rings with reusable hats) right?

Motul is more hygroscopic. But if you're doing a flush before every track day, it doesn't matter that much.

ATE Type 200 (blue) comes in amber as well. Not that it matters much if you prefer other fluids like Motul.

Yes, I did see that but didn't look at price or replacement price.

Would going slotted up front and drilled in rear effect brake bias?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Yes, I did see that but didn't look at price or replacement price.

Would going slotted up front and drilled in rear effect brake bias?

I wouldn't think it would affect it that much. Not enough to really change bias that much. Some, like The Hack, use different front and rear pads and have been running RB fronts and stock rears for awhile. Rear slotted will be available in the near future from RB as well.

If you're anywhere close to needing new rotors, these are competitively priced. See this post over on the RB group buy thread here for more.

OP, sorry for the .

[aaaafamily]

I totally agree "not worth $6k bbk" on performance while upgrade line, pad, brake fuild for same result on Steet/track.
Again, I share my pic becuase someone ask on other post.

[Mirko]

Originally Posted by aaaafamily

I totally agree "not worth $6k bbk" on performance while upgrade line, pad, brake fuild for same result on Steet/track.
Again, I share my pic becuase someone ask on other post.

Thank you for sharing. Yellow is one of the nicest colors for a BBK. If you are happy with it and find a benefit then it was worth the cost. I found my stock brakes are good but on the track they were lacking and fading. Could be that my fronts are worn down a bit but those were my first hand findings. I've used a BBK before on my prior car and was very happy with the results when compared to stock.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Do you REALLY want to go there?

Originally Posted by dubsesd

until you drive a car with an upgraded brake system, you wont understand.

OP... Great looking brakes!

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by dubsesd

sooo....stock brakes with better pads are as good as a 6k bbk? gotcha. i can see what you are saying, and how the physics add up, but until you drive a car with an upgraded brake system, you wont understand. alot of people who dont have the knowledge you have about mechanical aspects, will describe the brakes as "braking faster".

OP, nice set of performance brakes you have there. enjoy them

Sigh. My post was specifically directed at the fact that BIGGER BRAKES won't necessarily slow you down quicker.

If you really want to know, I've "upgraded" my brakes through every single stage humanly possible. On my E46 323Ci, which I tracked extensively, I started out with upgraded stainless steel brake lines. Then cross drilled rotors. Then back to blanks with upgraded track pads. Then with larger, single piece rotors (330i) and fixed calipers (6 piston front, 4 piston rear). All while on various street tires (never tried R-Comps on the E46, but have tried tires ranging from all season Touranzas to sticky S-03s).

On my 350Z I've gone through the stock sliding caliper with stainless steel brake lines, upgraded pads, upgraded track pads and larger rotors, then 4 piston fixed calipers on 2 piece floating rotors on both street compound AND track compounds (and street tires and track R-comp tires).

So if you're going to tell me that I don't know big brakes unless I've tried it...I've tried it on track, far more extensively than just about anyone had a right to outside of club racers and real pros. And I can tell you that it makes little to no difference in braking distance. The one thing that made the biggest difference in braking distance was, and is, still the R-comps. The BIG difference BBKs made, was its ability to resist fade (and this is mostly a function of the 2 piece floating rotors, which the MZ4 already came with) and a consistent brake pedal feel, and a prolonged component life. I've never denied the fact that so called BBKs have their performance advantages. I am merely pointing out the fact that their performance advantages are not what y'all think it is.

COULD my MZ4 Coupe benefit from a set of fixed calipers? Sure. It'll look real nice. And changing pads would be a piece of cake. And I'll probably save about 1-3 lbs of unsprung weight each corner. And the pedal should be nice and stiff with a much better modulation and feel. And if I were to track the car 10-12 times a year, the components are much more likely to last longer because of the higher built quality of aftermarket calipers and thicker pads. But is it going to significantly increase fade resistance on this car, compared to my current set-up (RB front rotors, OEM drilled rotors in the rear, DTC-60 pads all around)? Not likely. Is it going to significantly improve stopping distance? Not unless I get a set of Hoosier A6es to go with it.

[dubsesd]

Well put. I just don't see the need to get so excited about it. There are thousands of people putting hid kits in their cars and "upgrading" to 8000k bulbs thinking they are improving lighting. There are also extremists who think that changing the suspension on a car without relocating geometry points will ruin a cars' handling or make it worse. Whatever makes you happy. I agree with you however, and you obviously have an extended knowledge and experience on the topic. Thanks for your input

[The HACK]

From having worked briefly in the automotive aftermarket industry, my biggest pet peeve in general about the market I used to serve, is the amount of mis-information out there. So no offense if I get a little riled up, that was literally a huge chunk of my daily routine for 3+ years...Trying to educate the consumers about products so they can make the RIGHT decision for themselves.

Probably the biggest reason why I don't work in that industry anymore. I once told my boss that a well educated consumer is worth his/her weight in gold. But that does not seem to be the prevailing sentiment within the industry. Or any industry for that matter.