Z4MR Autocheck w/ Fleet Use + 2 Auctions

[AlexKurly]

Hi, I'm currently shopping for a Z4MR and found one that ticks all the boxes for me located within a reasonable distance. My main hesitation with this car is that it has "Fleet Use" in the Autocheck report as well as going to auction TWICE. There have been 4 owners so far and it has 77k miles.

My other option at this point is flying half way across the country for a car with a much more standard Autocheck and half the miles, but non-preferred interior. I'm just sure my wife would be annoyed with me being away for a few days to make the 2k mile drive home.

If I were to buy I absolutely would get an independent PPI, but what are everyone's thoughts on these red flags? Would you even give it a chance?

Thanks!

[bwright657]

I would care much more about the PPI results and service history than the Carfax or Autocheck. Especially if the car doesn't have any accident history. Get the car with your ideal spec looked over and go from there. I'm the 6th owner of my Z4MC but all the previous owners took very good care of the car and I have all the service records from new.

[racerbruce]

You'll spend (2,000 miles @ 20 MPG =100 gallons x $3.50 = $350 and lodging (one night at $100) and food costs ($100) to drive it home; have the car shipped to your door.

[maupineda]

Get the one with better condition, lower miles, etc. Mileage is not representative of how past keepers behaved with the car. Options should be lower on the priority list.

I have a beautiful car which ticked ALL boxes except color and interior trim, yet, I think I couldn’t do better

Just to share an experience I had this week, i was looking into swapping my car for another Z4MC, but after seeing it, it is not in the same state as mine, so even though is a much nicer color (red on red), it would mean I need to start from scratch. All this on a car with less miles than mine. I would rather keep mine even if it is not of a color I love

[pungo]

IDK, typical car auctions is generally where cars that are not the best shape go. The vehicle being sold at 2 actions raises a big red flag. I'm not saying this vehicle is not in great condition, but I'd be really cautious with this one.

Short story: I looked at a local private party X3 for sale. I went to inspect it, I could tell there was bodywork done to the rear. The seller was showing off their maintenance history folder, which I found a rear end collision repair for $15,000. They never mentioned the accident. There were many other issues with the vehicle, oil & coolant leaks, totally clogged cabin filter, etc... pretty much a neglected vehicle. Needless to say, I walked away.
A month later, the same vehicle(I checked the VIN) was at carmax with a clean autocheck showing no accidents. Not sure how that even happens. Also carmax made this POS X3 look really presentable, cleaning up all the oil leaks, bad job touching up the paint, re-dye the seats, globs of paint covering the curb rash you could pick off with your fingernail, etc... I know I'll never buy a carmax vehicle after seeing this crap...

[AlexKurly]

Some great points, thanks. I really hadn't considered shipping the car but it's really not that much money in the grand scheme especially considering I'd have to fly out there and all the money to drive back.

One other thing I forgot to mention, the "red flag" car is being sold by a pretty shady looking used car dealer where-as the far away one is a Toyota dealership which makes me trust them 'a little' more.

For those interested:
Red flag car: RED_FLAG
Far car: FAR_CAR (not sure I like the spoiler)

[bwright657]

Both having no nav is big plus. Given the mileage difference between them, I would still recommend a pre-purchase inspection and then decide. The shift knob on the car with the red interior is not stock, but the seats look to be in good shape. And even though that car has higher mileage, it was a BMW CPO car, so it spent more time under warranty care than the lower mileage car. If the dealer with the spec you prefer won't let you get a PPI, then move on to the next one.

Your concern with the "Fleet use" on the car with the red interior is likely due to the car being leased initially from BMW. Leases sometimes show up as "fleet cars" in history reports. I also would not be worried about the car going to auctions. Dealers typically send cars to auction if they don't move in 90 days. I'm not surprised that a convertible didn't sell quickly in February/March in northern VA.

[Squidd99]

The number of previous owners is not relevant, as people treat their cars as they want. I recently bought an '08 Csi with only 39,000 miles but 5 previous owners. The car was in practically mint condition, appears to have been garaged all the time, and my local BMW specialist mechanic said he could find nothing he needed to do. An inspection will give you a far better picture than carfax documents, etc. Just be sure the inspector is experienced and qualified; it's well worth the money. While shopping, I had inspectors tell me to walk away from Z4s I was considering - that was money well spent.
(The same thing goes for piano shopping, by the way.)

[AlexKurly]

bwright657, thanks for the insight. I've already contacted the dealer with the red interior car and they've agreed to a PPI, I'd just need to set it up. That's when I started to have second thoughts about the car's history.

I also asked for more detailed pictures of the lower front bumper as it looks pretty chewed up and the guy said they'd "fix" the bumper which I took to mean respraying it.

Thanks again.

[bwright657]

Originally Posted by AlexKurly

bwright657, thanks for the insight. I've already contacted the dealer with the red interior car and they've agreed to a PPI, I'd just need to set it up. That's when I started to have second thoughts about the car's history.

I also asked for more detailed pictures of the lower front bumper as it looks pretty chewed up and the guy said they'd "fix" the bumper which I took to mean respraying it.

Thanks again.

Happy to help, be sure to post how the PPIs come back.

[ShakyDog]

I did subcontracted IT at a local dealer only auction and one Dealer told me this and it really rings true with Wholesale auto auctions.

Not all of the cars at the auction are bad,
but all the bad cars are at the auction.

Steve

[wdb]

I dunno. If I’m a Lexus dealer and get a Z4 in trade, I’m taking it straight to auction. Nobody walking into my Lexus showroom is going to be looking for that car. That is no reflection at all on the condition of the car itself.

Oh and never forget — happy wife happy life. Take her along to pick it up and find a nice B&B to stay at.

[Squidd99]

I agree with WBD: in all my shopping, I never found a Z4 on the lot of a new car dealer; even the BMW dealer told me he seldom had a used Z4 for sale. All the ones I saw were for sale by individuals or by used car operations unassociated with new cars. So if you are shopping, use the various search tools available to see what's available around the country. (After I got tired of not finding anything close by, I widened my search, and found a very nice one in NC and had it shipped to OH. Florida also seemed to have a lot of them available.)

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by pungo

IDK, typical car auctions is generally where cars that are not the best shape go. The vehicle being sold at 2 actions raises a big red flag. I'm not saying this vehicle is not in great condition, but I'd be really cautious with this one.

Short story: I looked at a local private party X3 for sale. I went to inspect it, I could tell there was bodywork done to the rear. The seller was showing off their maintenance history folder, which I found a rear end collision repair for $15,000. They never mentioned the accident. There were many other issues with the vehicle, oil & coolant leaks, totally clogged cabin filter, etc... pretty much a neglected vehicle. Needless to say, I walked away.
A month later, the same vehicle(I checked the VIN) was at carmax with a clean autocheck showing no accidents. Not sure how that even happens. Also carmax made this POS X3 look really presentable, cleaning up all the oil leaks, bad job touching up the paint, re-dye the seats, globs of paint covering the curb rash you could pick off with your fingernail, etc... I know I'll never buy a carmax vehicle after seeing this crap...

100% agree. CarMax is nothing more than a well-capitalized sleazy used car dealer. They present their used car buying experience as a new car buying experience via well-dressed salespeople in a nice custom-built dealership building. Then, ironically, they top off their "honesty" by making all sales non-negotiable, tied in with their 100-point "inspection by industry experts".

It's all complete BS. I brought my 3.0si Coupe from CarMax. I've posted elsewhere in specific all the items they missed with my low-mileage 2008 E86. I'll not reprise the list here, but all CarMax does is find cars they can clean up really well and make look presentable. They cover their ass by making a hard push to upsell their extended warranty for thousands of additional dollars on top of their above-market non-negotiable sales price. What an effing "sales job", LOL.

[wdb]

I sold two cars to CarMax and bought one. No complaints.

I liked the 7-day money back feature; when I bought the Kombi from them I had a PPI lined up for the next day, so if it had come back poorly I could have gotten it all undone. PPI was good and the car continues to serve me well. In fact the last time I took it in my indy guy said, "I hope you know this is a really nice car."

The two I sold were fairly priced and mostly hassle free. One of them had been my parents' car that I was selling under power of attorney, and that had some bumps and hiccups; CarMax handled all of it, even sending me stuff via FedEx so I didn't have to schlep to the store. They were super accommodating. Sure I could have finagled a few more dollars in a private sale, but the aggro would have been greater than the profit.

[AlexKurly]

I've finally gotten a PPI for the Black/Red Z4M (price has dropped to $24k) and there are some items I wanted to get the forum's opinion on. In general they said there are typical external scratches for the year (attached two of the worst ones) and that the interior was close to immaculate. Here's the list:

1. Oil leak between cylinder head and box (cleaned by seller before inspection) - He said they marked it as headgasket area to be pessimistic, but could easily be valve cover. Was a very slow leak. Any thoughts on this one?
2. Drive belt cracked - I'm not concerned
3. Front lower engine cover missing - I'm not concerned
4. LFR wheel bent - this is annoying as I've experienced bent wheels and feel like repaired are never perfect. I could always buy another though, or go with a new set from Apex.
5. Pinion seal leak - at the differential. Any thoughts on this?
6. Hole in convertible roof fabric - Ugh. What's the going cost for a new top? I've attached a picture of the hole. On the bright side, this will only be a fair weather car for me.
7. Misc - wiper noise, antenna is old, passenger door noise - I'm not concerned.

It's definitely not perfect, but I'm worried I won't be able to find a car in my preferred color combo that's in better shape and isn't >$40k based on other listings and how BaT is going.

So, any opinions to help sway me one way or the other?

Thanks,
Alex

[wdb]

Originally Posted by AlexKurly

I've finally gotten a PPI for the Black/Red Z4M (price has dropped to $24k) and there are some items I wanted to get the forum's opinion on. In general they said there are typical external scratches for the year (attached two of the worst ones) and that the interior was close to immaculate. Here's the list:

1. Oil leak between cylinder head and box (cleaned by seller before inspection) - He said they marked it as headgasket area to be pessimistic, but could easily be valve cover. Was a very slow leak. Any thoughts on this one?
2. Drive belt cracked - I'm not concerned
3. Front lower engine cover missing - I'm not concerned
4. LFR wheel bent - this is annoying as I've experienced bent wheels and feel like repaired are never perfect. I could always buy another though, or go with a new set from Apex.
5. Pinion seal leak - at the differential. Any thoughts on this?
6. Hole in convertible roof fabric - Ugh. What's the going cost for a new top? I've attached a picture of the hole. On the bright side, this will only be a fair weather car for me.
7. Misc - wiper noise, antenna is old, passenger door noise - I'm not concerned.

It's definitely not perfect, but I'm worried I won't be able to find a car in my preferred color combo that's in better shape and isn't >$40k based on other listings and how BaT is going.

So, any opinions to help sway me one way or the other?

Thanks,
Alex

The oil leak is most likely valve cover. Common item. In general though it looks like a car that has had at least one rough owner. It will need some TLC obviously. Expect to find deferred maintenance as well.

A lot of experts say "buy the best car you can afford." That sounds great but I don't personally do it. I tend to buy cars that I hope have good basics but maybe need a little love. I do a lot of the work myself so the cost is less than going to a dealer or shop. Not trying to turn a profit, I just like doing the work and seeing the result. I see this car as being in that category. For $24K, in today's market, it's not completely crazy. And you get your colors. But it will need attention if you want it perfect.

[bwright657]

For the scratches, spray them with water and see if they disappear. If they disappear when wet, then the scratch is in the clear coat and you have a chance to polish them out. If still visible, then you definitely need to repaint.

If the missing underbody panel is the main belly pan, it is pretty pricey to replace since it's M specific. $250-300 just for the part last time I checked.

[AlexKurly]

Originally Posted by wdb

The oil leak is most likely valve cover. Common item. In general though it looks like a car that has had at least one rough owner. It will need some TLC obviously. Expect to find deferred maintenance as well.

A lot of experts say "buy the best car you can afford." That sounds great but I don't personally do it. I tend to buy cars that I hope have good basics but maybe need a little love. I do a lot of the work myself so the cost is less than going to a dealer or shop. Not trying to turn a profit, I just like doing the work and seeing the result. I see this car as being in that category. For $24K, in today's market, it's not completely crazy. And you get your colors. But it will need attention if you want it perfect.

I'm in the same camp as you. I don't need a showroom car, just want a solid driver and I generally do most of my own work. He really seems to want to get rid of the car at this point, so I'm considering offering him $22k.

As for the scratches, none of these showed up in the seller's pictures after the car had been really clean, so maybe they are just in the clear coat (unless the resolution just wasn't good enough or they photoshopped them).

Replacing stuff like the drive belt, body pan, pinion seal don't bother me at all. Honestly, this car is in similar shape to my ZHP which is a 2006 and I'm happy with it.

Thanks!

[pungo]

Even though the issues are not serious, my question would be on the maintenance history (engine/trans/diff fluid change intervals, brake fluid flushes, etc) since it looks like there may be some neglect. Rod bearing replacement is not inexpensive and or trivial work, if worn enough, could have caused crank damage, so a blackstone analysis should be done to know the health of the engine.
As well, why is a Z4M still for sale for at least 2 months in this hot sellers market

[AlexKurly]

Originally Posted by pungo

Even though the issues are not serious, my question would be on the maintenance history (engine/trans/diff fluid change intervals, brake fluid flushes, etc) since it looks like there may be some neglect. Rod bearing replacement is not inexpensive and or trivial work, if worn enough, could have caused crank damage, so a blackstone analysis should be done to know the health of the engine.
As well, why is a Z4M still for sale for at least 2 months in this hot sellers market

That's a good point about the maintenance history. I was already planning/budgeting for doing all the above and starting at a blank slate for all these. I don't think I mentioned, but I had a cylinder compression test and they all came back good.

As for the car still being for sale, I chalked it up to it being winter and a niche car. I've been following quite a few black Z4Ms and nothing seems to really be moving fast.

[elerner61]

Originally Posted by bwright657

For the scratches, spray them with water and see if they disappear. If they disappear when wet, then the scratch is in the clear coat and you have a chance to polish them out. If still visible, then you definitely need to repaint.

If the missing underbody panel is the main belly pan, it is pretty pricey to replace since it's M specific. $250-300 just for the part last time I checked.

I would also say if it's the metal belly pan (and not the plastic shield) then this is more proof that it hasn't been taken care of well at all. That's a structural piece, who wouldn't make sure that's put back on the car...