Camber Plate Opinions

[Kgolf31]

With the crave to become faster with auto-x (Just purchased Hankook RS3s), I'm considering getting camber plates to throw on the car.

I know this will bump me into BSP, and I could care less, I can't be competitive with anyone in either class. I just like being competitive with myself.

Anyways, I have a couple questions regarding the actual set-up on the plates. I'm sold on the Vorshlag Plates as of now, it seems to be the popular choice.

I'm thinking of getting 2 alignments done. A street set-up with alittle toe in for DD, having that spot marked then going to around -3.0 in the front and mark the plates again. Obviously the rear will stay the same...unless I can do something about that?

Anyways, I will probably adjust the plates the night before when I mount the RS3s. But will I be accurate to the markings and correct camber or will it all be inconsistent and off? I would love to run -3.0 the whole summer, but I don't want that type of wear on my DD tires.

Opinions?

Cliffs: Will constantly adjusting the plates from Street to Track set-up be consistent or will it always be off?

Thanks

[onelove]

Buy a longacre camber gauge and double check your measurements, shouldn't take much more time than the adjustments themselves with a bit of math. Personally I went in thinking I'd swap every event, and ended up going -4 degrees and keeping my toe in check and just drive everyday like that. Tire wear has been better than expected and it's one less thing to worry about preparing for each track event.

[Shipkiller]

Why don't you just put a set of camber shims on to increase your camber? Cheaper.....

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Shipkiller

Why don't you just put a set of camber shims on to increase your camber? Cheaper.....

Cheaper...yes

Adjustable, ehhh not really. Yes there is a way to adjust them, but it's rather the backdoor method. I'd rather save the $100 and invest it into plates.

[The HACK]

Adjustability is over-rated. I've MAYBE only seen a handful of guys dedicated enough to change their camber settings from street to track regularly. Most just set and forget. Heck I haven't touched my camber plates except for the annual professional alignment checks.

[Shipkiller]

Hack beat me to it...

The issue I have with camber plates it that if you have an alignment for street driving and then change your camber for the track or autocross, you are also changing the toe......

So unless you spend some time ($$) on the alignment machine trying to figure out the camber/toe settings for each tick mark on the camber plates, then going with a set camber/toe for all round performance is the most cost effect option. Improper toe will wear a tire out much faster than heavier than stock camber.

The E36 camber shims from Turner is only $15.00. The Bimmerworld kit is more expensive and I don't think it is necessarily better due to how the strut is bolted to the suspension.

[krnnerdboy]

Camber plates tend to clunk and my tires are doing fine at -2.5 camber, not to mention the bolts and washers only cost me $15 and about 1hr install time.

here are the specs...
4x grade 10.9 m12 1.75 30mm

12x 2.5mm washers (I'm running 2 spacers per bolt to get -2.5 and I pulled the top pins)

take those specs to any specialty bolt shop and they'll set you up

[Shipkiller]

I kept the alignment pins in as a zero point to see just what camber angle I could achieve with the shims. I get -2.5 with the pins in. Toe is set to zero (0).

This produces a really nimble car with almost no under-steer when on the track. What I did not expect is the uniform tire wear, across the face. I expected the inner sides to wear out faster, but that was not the case... but I would expect more inner wear if I went to -3.0, especially if you do a lot of straight line driving.

I run -2.0 camber in the rear, but I am toying with the idea of reducing this to -1.5. Not for wear but for a better contact patch so I can put the power down sooner coming out of the turns... we will see.

[Kgolf31]

So the consensus is to just set it and leave it all year?

I'm still weary that I'll get un-even wear on my DD tires now, since I've been driving on them with stock camber for the past year.

[Shipkiller]

No, that is not the consensus.

You have many options. You must understand the pros and cons of each option and decide what is best for you.

Uneven tire wear is a very possible going with a more aggressive than stock alignment settings but this also can be negated or managed by how you drive your car and the type of roads you drive on.

My personal philosophy is that when you drive this type of car, you have to pay to play. Tires are just one of the ways you pay.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

So the consensus is to just set it and leave it all year?

I'm still weary that I'll get un-even wear on my DD tires now, since I've been driving on them with stock camber for the past year.

Not my gameplan.
I use the camber plates to dial in my street setup, with tower studs at max width.
Then use the tower slots to move between track(in) & street(out).

I'm still playing with the numbers but I'll be about -2.6 camber street & -3.1ish track
Toe will be just slightly + street (1/16th)
& slightly - for track.

Using the tower studs may not dial in the perfect setup but it makes it easy to switch back & forth.

[Shereef_Osman]

I'm with inTgr8r on this one. I change my camber for every track day. With camber plates it is very simple and makes a huge difference. I can't see anyone driving on the streets with 3.5 degrees of camber, makes for a very annoying drive.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Shereef_Osman

I'm with inTgr8r on this one. I change my camber for every track day. With camber plates it is very simple and makes a huge difference. I can't see anyone driving on the streets with 3.5 degrees of camber, makes for a very annoying drive.

Did you mark your camber plates or what?

How do you confirm you're at the right camber for street/track?

[Shereef_Osman]

When I did the alignment, the camber plate was pushed all the way in and then the alignment was done so that I got max camber for the track. For the street it is marked, so it's really basic, either all the way in or at the marking.

[ANILE8]

I vote for just using the TMS Front Camber Bolt Kit.

You can easily get -2.5 adjustment on the front-end of our vehicles with this simple kit.

Why spend more?

I don't see the need to get adjustable Camber Plates unless you were looking for more than this or have wheel-to-strut clearance issues.

[mpower03]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Not my gameplan.
I use the camber plates to dial in my street setup, with tower studs at max width.
Then use the tower slots to move between track(in) & street(out).

I'm still playing with the numbers but I'll be about -2.6 camber street & -3.1ish track
Toe will be just slightly + street (1/16th)
& slightly - for track.

Using the tower studs may not dial in the perfect setup but it makes it easy to switch back & forth.

by plus do you mean to out and by negative toe in? If so, don't you want toe in for the street so you arent wandering, and toe out for the increased turn in?

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by ANILE8

I vote for just using the TMS Front Camber Bolt Kit.

You can easily get -2.5 adjustment on the front-end of our vehicles with this simple kit.

Why spend more?

I don't see the need to get adjustable Camber Plates unless you were looking for more than this or have wheel-to-strut clearance issues.

I don't want to run -3.5 for DD'ing. That's my reason for adjustability.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

I don't want to run -3.5 for DD'ing. That's my reason for adjustability.

I hear you. I've been debating going the camber plate route vs. shims (I have shims now) for the reasons you've articulated in this thread.

JMillet has gone the camber plate route (see post 5 here) with a street (-2) and track setting (-3.5) and and TCK DA plates seems very happy with it. (As you probably know he's quite an experienced track guy.) You might want to PM him regarding details, and how he addressed toe and so on in swapping street/track settings. Vorschag seems to get high marks from folks as well. Ground control seems to be functional, but the adjustment is backwards from other plates IIRC.

My bet is that he's got the street setting with slight toe-in, and track with slight toe-out, and there's no need to reset it since 1 to 1.5 degrees difference in camber is probably going to make smaller moves in toe than, say going from -1.0 to -3.5. Seems if you'd like a -1.5 street and a -3.0 track setting you'd be fine (no adverse wear I can see with 10K miles @-1.5 slight amount of toe-in).

Then again, The Hack (again, another experienced track guy) supports a method (here) with the shims that seems to make very good sense and offers a balance for DD'ing (~-1.5 to ~-1.7) and track (~-2.5 to ~-2.7) at a cheap price. This method also addresses the matter of toe. Seems pretty sound, and not much different than what plates would do. With the money saved, one could buy the tools needed to check camber and toe, and save on future alignment costs as well. (See post #9 here.)

Ultimately it's up to you, and I'll be curious to get your feedback on plates since it looks like you're going that route.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

I hear you. I've been debating going the camber plate route vs. shims (I have shims now) for the reasons you've articulated in this thread.

JMillet has gone the camber plate route (see post 5 here) with a street (-2) and track setting (-3.5) and and TCK DA plates seems very happy with it. (As you probably know he's quite an experienced track guy.) You might want to PM him regarding details, and how he addressed toe and so on in swapping street/track settings. Vorschag seems to get high marks from folks as well. Ground control seems to be functional, but the adjustment is backwards from other plates IIRC.

My bet is that he's got the street setting with slight toe-in, and track with slight toe-out, and there's no need to reset it since 1 to 1.5 degrees difference in camber is probably going to make smaller moves in toe than, say going from -1.0 to -3.5. Seems if you'd like a -1.5 street and a -3.0 track setting you'd be fine (no adverse wear I can see with 10K miles @-1.5 slight amount of toe-in).

Then again, The Hack (again, another experienced track guy) supports a method (here) with the shims that seems to make very good sense and offers a balance for DD'ing (~-1.5 to ~-1.7) and track (~-2.5 to ~-2.7) at a cheap price. This method also addresses the matter of toe. Seems pretty sound, and not much different than what plates would do. With the money saved, one could buy the tools needed to check camber and toe, and save on future alignment costs as well. (See post #9 here.)

Ultimately it's up to you, and I'll be curious to get your feedback on plates since it looks like you're going that route.

Thanks for the threads. I'll read into them further.

I'll let you know how I like them, if I decided to pull the trigger for next season. I don't want to deal with shims or anything like that; because my tires, jack, and tools will be housed in a storage facility (no lie).

I am still at school and co-oping where I live 4 hours away from home. Unless I can get a house next year for living in the summer, everything will be mounted and changed at the storage facility...So I just really want the easiest method there. I'll write a full review if I do and keep you updated

[BTM]

I have the Ground Control street plates. They're pretty quiet but there is a little rattling, nothing annoying. I have them at -2.8 and marked them - they haven't moved. -2.8 is a decent compromise but I would like more in the front. Looking at my tire wear (is this the source of your reservations running aggressive camber?) the front camber wear isn't too bad and autoxing the fronts rollover (which is also a function of pressure, which TBH I'm too much a novice to really play with pressures each run). The rears will need replacing well before the fronts.

I may be selling them soon for a more race oriented plate as my car gets driven on the street less and less. If you're interested I'll give you first shot at them.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by mpower03

by plus do you mean to out and by negative toe in? If so, don't you want toe in for the street so you arent wandering, and toe out for the increased turn in?

sorry..... that slipped by me.
Yes, toe in for street (barely), & toe out for track.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by Shereef_Osman

When I did the alignment, the camber plate was pushed all the way in and then the alignment was done so that I got max camber for the track. For the street it is marked, so it's really basic, either all the way in or at the marking.

Have you checked to see how much this affects your toe? FWIW, I just switched to -3.5 in front and have no complaints for street driving.