Adjusting camber

[yvel26]

Hello,

I was wondering if it is possible to adjust the camber on a Z4 M (2006) with standard suspension?
I had my car aligned at my local alignment shop and the told me they could not adjust it.

These are the results after the alignment:

Front:

Caster Left: 6°13'
Caster Right: 5°57'

Camber Left: -1°01'
Camber Right: -1°39'

Toe Left: 0°01'
Toe Right: -0°01'
Toe Total: 0°00'

Rear:

Camber Left: -1°17'
Camber Right: -1°10'

Toe Left: 0°08'
Toe Right: 0°08'
Toe Total: 0°17'

As you see the front right wheel camber is not ok. (Min = -1°20' and Max = -0°40')

Anyone knows if these settings are ok? I'm quite a noob at this.

Thanks for the help!

Regards Yves

[Beedub]

get a new alignment shop, camber pins can be pulled and adjusted, im not saying you can gain alot of camber by doing this BUT you can Adjust the stock setting slightly, i added the turner shim kit and got -2.25 camber WITH my camber pins in place, without these i could get -2.5 all day long........ th -2.25 i have is a visiable camber, i can clearly see the angled wheel and also i am running +32 8.5 front rim, with the stock alignment the rim used to stick out slightly........ now with my camber the wheel is tucked in at the top, i could have easily gone for +30 front offset......

handling balance has definatly shifted and the car feels really planted at the front, very happy with my shim kit, only cost a few pounds :-) or dollars :-)

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by yvel26

Hello,

I was wondering if it is possible to adjust the camber on a Z4 M (2006) with standard suspension?
I had my car aligned at my local alignment shop and the told me they could not adjust it.
.....

Yes they can.
They probably were not used to working on BMW.

To adjust camber, they need to adjust the top of the strut with the 3 upper mounting nuts.
The holes are slotted to allow adjustment after the index pin is removed.
As mentioned, it is limited, but they should be able to balance the two sides.

[yvel26]

Thanks for the fast responses

After looking at some pics I had one extra question.
After the adjustment can you re-enter the index pin or do you just have to leave it away?

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by yvel26

Thanks for the fast responses

After looking at some pics I had one extra question.
After the adjustment can you re-enter the index pin or do you just have to leave it away?

Just leave it out.
The only purpose for the pin is that it provides an index point for the robot during assembly.
It serves no real function.

[yvel26]

And what about the settings? Are they OK?
I use my car as a daily driver and do 99% streetdriving.

[inTgr8r]

They should be fine.
If you track the car at all, I would get the camber as neg as possible.
As long as you have very little front toe you should have no tire wear issues.

I have my front camber set to -2.4 (coilovers) and my toe is 0.00
I have no tire wear issues

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by yvel26

And what about the settings? Are they OK?
I use my car as a daily driver and do 99% streetdriving.

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

They should be fine.
If you track the car at all, I would get the camber as neg as possible.
As long as you have very little front toe you should have no tire wear issues.

I have my front camber set to -2.4 (coilovers) and my toe is 0.00
I have no tire wear issues

^


Been running 1.5 on the street for a year front on the wife's ///M, almost zero toe, and no wear issues. I'm running -2.0 up front (Turner camber kit).

IMO toe is more of a wear issue than negative camber for street with a moderate to aggressive street alignment (-1.5 to -1.8 front). I'd try to get the front a bit more even (same camber both sides, or .1 diff), but I'm a picky guy when it comes to alignment and my car in general.

[Shipkiller]

Everything stated above is correct.

The rear suspension has some adjustment built in by design, but is also limited. On my car I am only to get -2.0 of camber in the rear. That is all that the stock adjustments will let me go to.

I run -2.5 front and -2.0 rear with zero toe in the front. My tires seem to be wearing uniformly on all four corners, with just a slight accelerated wear on the inner parts of the tires. My wear comments now come when I am almost ready to buy new tires because the old ones are just about worn out.

I am interested in why the alignment shop could not zero out the toe in both front wheels. You have an 'effective' zero toe angle on the front but each tire is not zeroed. They did this for the rears though....

Someone else may chime in here but the camber angle set by BMW 'specs' is for the average driver. There is no harm at all by going to a more negative camber, but by doing so, you do risk wearing out the inner parts of the tires before the outer parts because of the angle.
If you never track or autocross your car, the stock camber angles are sufficient for tooling down the road. Conversely, more camber will give you better turn in feel and generally reduce the understeer that is designed into the car.

The stock toe settings (slightly negative) gives the car a very stable feel while going in a straight line without it being 'twitchy'.
Going with a zero toe can, and this is subjective here, cause the car to be more twitchy in a straight line. Not unsafe or anything, just different... so you must stay on top of it. I actually don't experience this with my toe settings but I like to drive my car. No distractions. Almost total concentration just driving it.

There really is no right answer. Just what you want to do to the car and how you want to drive it.

[Finnegan]

Ship, your comments are right on the money--yes, the stock specs are for the average driver and optimized for that. Some understeer is built in, and I think the car is also more stable in that configuration in inclement weather.

The car seems a bit twitchier with the zero or close to zero toe settings. I don't really notice much difference -1.5 front vs. -2.0 in terms of "twitchness"--both cars are however set to close to zero toe. I agree, it does require more focus/attention to drive to stay on top of it, but I rather like that. (Thanks for highlighting these characteristics for yvel29--sometimes I get too caught up thinking from my and my wife's mixed aggressive street/track driving needs which certainly don't apply to everyone.)

I think yvel29 should try to get the somewhat lopsided camber addressed and have a bit of toe-in (per spec) for his driving needs. Like I said, I'm picky, and I'd certainly notice the difference side to side on my car.

[yvel26]

Ok, as I understand right (I am new to this) these are the settings I need (want) for aggresive street use.

Front:

Caster Left: 6°13'
Caster Right: 5°57'

-> I will get the caster equal for both wheels. I read 5°50' is a good maximum setting

Camber Left: -1°50'
Camber Right: -1°50'

-> Will reduce understeer

Toe Left: 0°00'
Toe Right: 0°00'
Toe Total: 0°00'

-> Car will be less stable in straight line, but tire wear will be less

Rear:

Camber Left: -1°17'
Camber Right: -1°10'

-> What do I do with the rear camber. I read it is better to have less camber here. So will -1°10' on both side do?

Toe Left: 0°08'
Toe Right: 0°08'
Toe Total: 0°17'

-> value is positive so toe in -> will increase straight line stability.

Some extra questions:

Straight line stability is mainly achived by rear wheels toe (toe in), front wheel toe is for fatser turn in (toe out). Is this correct?
Do settings on left and right has to be as equal as possible? Like my current rear camber L: -1.17 and R: -1.10 or is 0.07 negligible?

Thanks for helping me out

[yvel26]

I have changed my mind after some additional reading

Caster Left: 8°00'
Caster Right: 8°00'

Camber Left: -1°50'
Camber Right: -1°50'

Toe Total: 0°05'


Rear:

Camber Left: -1°80'
Camber Right: -1°80'

Toe Left: 0°08'
Toe Right: 0°08'
Toe Total: 0°16'

What do you guys think?

[inTgr8r]

^that should work fine.
You won't be able to do anything with caster though.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

^that should work fine.
You won't be able to do anything with caster though.

+1

You might need to use the Turner Camber Bolt/Washer kit to get there though. Even with the "alignment pins" pulled on one of our cars the most we could get was -1.2. Some folks seem to be able to get more (if they're running lowering springs of any kind negative camber is built in), some less.

The kit is US, but pretty cheap ($15.95), so shipping is probably more than the kit itself. Here's another option one forum member used.

With the "kit" installed we were able to get a nice and easy -1.5 front on both sides.

[yvel26]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

^that should work fine.
You won't be able to do anything with caster though.

Caster can't be adjusted?
Because my caster settings on both wheels are not the same, is this a factory setting or ...

When will it be possible to adjust the caster? Buy new springs etc ...

[inTgr8r]

you would need camber/caster plates.

don't worry about it, it's close enough & not as important as the other setpoints

[yvel26]

Ok thx

[doofus4000]

guys..can you do this job at home by yourself or does it need to go to an allignment centre for a professional to measure it up and do it? and if you can do it yourself, where could I get instructions of some sort?

I have no experience of this sort of thing but Im looking to increase the camber of my front wheels from stock just a little. By increase I mean /\ ..I think the technical term is more negative. Thanks

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by doofus4000

guys..can you do this job at home by yourself or does it need to go to an allignment centre for a professional to measure it up and do it? and if you can do it yourself, where could I get instructions of some sort?

I have no experience of this sort of thing but Im looking to increase the camber of my front wheels from stock just a little. By increase I mean /\ ..I think the technical term is more negative. Thanks

You're probably wanting to make the front camber a bit more negative from the stock numbers which are a bit less than -1.0 front if you have an M. The result is less understeer (more front grip) and more wear on the inside of the tire. That can be a good thing if you're wearing out the outside of the tires first; not such a great thing if you're not. There are lots of threads on this here on this site.

When you adjust camber (either more negative or more positive from the current setting) it changes toe (either in or out). Toe has a big impact on handling and on tire wear. At the risk of stating something obvious that you already know, if the car is facing the top of the page here then toe-in is /\ while toe-out is \/ and zero toe is ||. Too much toe one way or the other and it's like dragging the tire down the road sideways. Weird and out of whack toe settings can make the car's handling unpredictable and unsafe as well.

Here's a thread that discusses the "home brew" alignment question. It's possible to do it, but it's probably not worth it unless you plan to change settings a lot (e.g. you like to play with settings or go to the track a lot). There are a lot of threads on suggested settings for street/track around here (search)--just know there are trade-offs with settings (either tire wear or handling). Alignment settings are often about compromise between max handling <-> minimum tire wear.

[doofus4000]

many thanks for the reply finnegan - has cleared and highlighted a lot of things for me.

I think it may be worthwhile purchasing them few tools to adjust camber and toe and take a stab at it myself saying as it isnt cheap getting it done at an allignment specialist, it seems it isnt too hard even for a beginner if you follow them instructions you have linked, what do you think?

As you say Id be aiming for a bit more camber (<-1deg, for better turn in) and no toe in/out (0deg, for best tyre wear possible).

Does this sound about right if I was to go about it myself?

[Shipkiller]

0' toe has some drawbacks also. It will make your car a bit more unstable in a straight line. It is not bad or dangerous but it makes you keep your concentration on driving.

I just wanted to make sure you don't get something for nothing. There is always a tradeoff, somewhere.

I run 0' toe, -2.5' camber for the front and 1/16' total toe, -2.0' camber rear. I daily drive this car & track it.

[doofus4000]

Originally Posted by Shipkiller

0' toe has some drawbacks also. It will make your car a bit more unstable in a straight line. It is not bad or dangerous but it makes you keep your concentration on driving.

I just wanted to make sure you don't get something for nothing. There is always a tradeoff, somewhere.

I run 0' toe, -2.5' camber for the front and 1/16' total toe, -2.0' camber rear. I daily drive this car & track it.

and have you went through a set of tyres with this setup/how long do you get out of a set? like it isnt stupidly low milage is it? lol