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      06-02-2014, 08:23 PM   #1
funkle
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Speaker replacement strategy

I've talked with a few installers about doing a rip & replace, and I'm a bit confused about the best way to go.

The 10 way system in our cars consists of 20mm tweeters, 100mm mids in the doors & 160mm woofers in the front kick panels. Then we have 100mm mids and 160mm subwoofers behind the seats. Aside from finding exact sized replacements, were talking about 6 1/2" woofers & subs, 4" mids, 3/4" tweeters, right?

So should we be looking at 2 way systems (It seems like 99% of the aftermarket sets out there are 2-way.) or 3-way? I've found this one JL 3 way system. Seems to me that the 3 way would be best, but with so few 3-way sets out there, I wonder if it's necessary. I'll be replacing the subs as well.

Last edited by funkle; 06-02-2014 at 10:05 PM..
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      06-03-2014, 10:15 AM   #2
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My recommendation would be to go with a 3-way due to the location of the mid-bass drivers all the way in the kick panels. They're pretty far away and either your legs or the passenger's legs can interfere. The door locations for the mids are excellent, you just have to watch your depth as you have a little less than 2" there. If your current system is 3-way, the OEM wiring is sufficient (BMW even went with a lower gauge for the mid-bass in the kicks!). If your installer says he needs to install new wires don't fall for it.

There have been various 3-way systems mentioned in this forum that will fit. I used speakers from a less known company called CDT. I'll refer to them as a poor man's Focal. I moved them from my Miatas to this Z. For the price point, they are great (to my ears). I didn't replace the mids behind the seats. They just add more sound but not very focused (driver only hears the passenger side mid in his/her right ear....)
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      06-03-2014, 07:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elerner61 View Post
My recommendation would be to go with a 3-way due to the location of the mid-bass drivers all the way in the kick panels. They're pretty far away and either your legs or the passenger's legs can interfere. The door locations for the mids are excellent, you just have to watch your depth as you have a little less than 2" there. If your current system is 3-way, the OEM wiring is sufficient (BMW even went with a lower gauge for the mid-bass in the kicks!). If your installer says he needs to install new wires don't fall for it.

There have been various 3-way systems mentioned in this forum that will fit. I used speakers from a less known company called CDT. I'll refer to them as a poor man's Focal. I moved them from my Miatas to this Z. For the price point, they are great (to my ears). I didn't replace the mids behind the seats. They just add more sound but not very focused (driver only hears the passenger side mid in his/her right ear....)
CDT is good stuff
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      06-05-2014, 08:01 AM   #4
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Good call on CDT, do you know which system is in your car?
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      06-05-2014, 10:15 AM   #5
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I had a two-way CDT HD-62 component set and I bought a pair of their ES-03 mid's to get to my three way. My crossover duties are handled by my JBL MS-8, so I didn't have to purchase a 3-way crossover.

I just took a look at the CDT product line and their CL-632 component series includes the ES-03 mids (which need less than 2" mounting depth). Those have different tweeters than the HD's that I have (and I had to trim excess material off my tweeters so they would drop into the stock sail panel mounts). To make sure they will fit I would focus on the tweeter dimensions. The HD-632 component series comes with the HD-03 mids which may fit, but require a hair over 2" mounting depth.
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      06-05-2014, 02:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elerner61 View Post
I had a two-way CDT HD-62 component set and I bought a pair of their ES-03 mid's to get to my three way. My crossover duties are handled by my JBL MS-8, so I didn't have to purchase a 3-way crossover.

I just took a look at the CDT product line and their CL-632 component series includes the ES-03 mids (which need less than 2" mounting depth). Those have different tweeters than the HD's that I have (and I had to trim excess material off my tweeters so they would drop into the stock sail panel mounts). To make sure they will fit I would focus on the tweeter dimensions. The HD-632 component series comes with the HD-03 mids which may fit, but require a hair over 2" mounting depth.
[Edit: I see now the 4" is too deep]

So the candidate are

CL642SL includes a 1.25" deep 4" mid.

CL632 includes a 1.69” deep 3" mid

Or you could do the same sizes in the HD series.

Last edited by funkle; 06-05-2014 at 08:10 PM..
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      06-05-2014, 08:01 PM   #7
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elerner61, any idea of the mounting depth of the mid/woofer in the kick?
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      06-06-2014, 07:49 AM   #8
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I actually missed that cl-642sl model. That might very well work, just be careful about the diameter of the actual driver. The 3 inch dropped right into the mid location and then I made a ring that fit over it out of MDF and was able to cut holes for the stock screw locations.

I don't recall the actual depth in the kicks, but there is lots of room in there as the OEM drivers are beefy. My HD-6 drivers fit without a problem and they need 2.75" of depth.
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      06-06-2014, 12:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elerner61 View Post
I actually missed that cl-642sl model. That might very well work, just be careful about the diameter of the actual driver. The 3 inch dropped right into the mid location and then I made a ring that fit over it out of MDF and was able to cut holes for the stock screw locations.

I don't recall the actual depth in the kicks, but there is lots of room in there as the OEM drivers are beefy. My HD-6 drivers fit without a problem and they need 2.75" of depth.
What about the 1" tweeter? Will that fit?
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      06-06-2014, 01:40 PM   #10
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Looks like it will be tight. Give the tech support/customer service people at CDT a call and see if they can give you the dimensions with the tweeter stripped of all enclosure. Then take off the sailpanel on the door that holds the tweeter and measure it. There is a BAVSOUD video here, starting 2:40 that goes over this.
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      06-06-2014, 02:47 PM   #11
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Speaker replacement strategy
Make the car louder, and faster, shut off the radio
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      06-06-2014, 02:54 PM   #12
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Speaker replacement strategy
Make the car louder, and faster, shut off the radio
That's the dilemma. Most of the time I want to experience the intoxicating engine, which means driving around with the stereo off and windows down. Having music on definitely diminishes the connection with the car. But I'm so into music & hi-fi that I feel I need to fix it. And it would be nice on occasion. like when I'm on the highway. This is probably not worth the 3K it's gonna cost.
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      06-06-2014, 04:24 PM   #13
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Funkle,

How about trying to sound deaden the doors first? Made a huge difference on my 2.5i in terms of stereo quality. I'm guessing it will still make a big difference on the 'Coupe.

Plus, it's cheaper and has the added effect of lessening some external noise.

Con: Adds weight.
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      06-06-2014, 05:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donoman View Post
Funkle,

How about trying to sound deaden the doors first? Made a huge difference on my 2.5i in terms of stereo quality. I'm guessing it will still make a big difference on the 'Coupe.

Plus, it's cheaper and has the added effect of lessening some external noise.

Con: Adds weight.
Yeah, I could take that approach. But the stereo is just SOOOO crappy. There's a huge amount of missing detail that no amount of deadening will fix. Listening to Brent's Bavsound system drove home the fact that this stereo is bad to the bone.

I'm trying to get the bill of parts down to around 1K. But I want to have it all installed by someone who knows what they are doing, which costs another 1K.
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      06-06-2014, 09:16 PM   #15
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I gotta agree, the stereo is really bad. It's amazing that such an expensive car with such expensive brand-name components like Carver can sound so bad. Just goes to show that throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily fix it.

I'm wondering how much of it is sound staging. I hate those rear speakers. I feel like they just muddy up the situation.
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      06-07-2014, 12:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkle View Post
That's the dilemma. Most of the time I want to experience the intoxicating engine, which means driving around with the stereo off and windows down. Having music on definitely diminishes the connection with the car. But I'm so into music & hi-fi that I feel I need to fix it. And it would be nice on occasion. like when I'm on the highway. This is probably not worth the 3K it's gonna cost.
I was mostly just joking but my serious answer would be i'd find it hard to come up with a GOOD sounding setup in the car
1. convertibles are hard period
2. staging is a mess, there's just not paneling in the right places
3. every part (door, dash, trunk) is a gigantic cavern - you might get somewhere with a few hundred pounds of dynamat?
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      06-09-2014, 07:33 AM   #17
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Hopefully you've seen my build thread. There is a lot of good info there regarding speakers.

Sound deadening the doors will do very little if anything on this system, the mid driver doesn't need it, and is enclosed by the foam behind the door panel. Add some deadening to the kick panel where the woofer is.

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784148
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      06-09-2014, 10:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkle View Post
Yeah, I could take that approach. But the stereo is just SOOOO crappy. There's a huge amount of missing detail that no amount of deadening will fix. Listening to Brent's Bavsound system drove home the fact that this stereo is bad to the bone.

I'm trying to get the bill of parts down to around 1K. But I want to have it all installed by someone who knows what they are doing, which costs another 1K.
Ouch! Yeah, I added the sound deadening to the doors as well as the Bavsound speakers. an improvement over stock for sure, but certainly no where near a "good sounding system". weight addition is nominal.
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      06-09-2014, 10:38 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssummers View Post
Hopefully you've seen my build thread. There is a lot of good info there regarding speakers.

Sound deadening the doors will do very little if anything on this system, the mid driver doesn't need it, and is enclosed by the foam behind the door panel. Add some deadening to the kick panel where the woofer is.

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784148
Hi, I did see your post. Very cool build. A few things I was wondering:

How did the 1" tweeter fit in the 20mm holder?

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see any final evaluation on the final sound quality. How does it sound? Did you get it professionally tuned? What would you do different if you did it all over?
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      06-09-2014, 11:40 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkle View Post
Hi, I did see your post. Very cool build. A few things I was wondering:

How did the 1" tweeter fit in the 20mm holder?

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see any final evaluation on the final sound quality. How does it sound? Did you get it professionally tuned? What would you do different if you did it all over?
The tweeter fit fine, IIRC I had to trim the surround off of the tweeter, then glue it into the mount.

Sound quality is great, I would like to get it tuned, but the wife is happy so that is the true measure of the system. The challenge with a convertible is the settings for the top up are different than the settings with the top down. In other words what sounds great top down, is really bright with the top up. Pretty easy to trim the treble some.

Using the new mic that came with the headunit for handsfree drastically improved that system as well. Much easier to talk to the wife while she is driving, and no exterior noise or interference.

Several things I would do different, not use T-nuts on the MDF in the sub enclosure. The Alpine head unit is a good unit, it isn't as seamless from a BT perspective as I would like. I drive an F150 with sync, every time I get in the truck my phone connects via BT. On the Alpine it is hit and miss. I do have a firmware upgrade I need to apply(which is a PITA), just haven't done it. Hopefully it will improve the BT connectivity. So I would investigate other head units to see how they function in this regard. My wife was used to the Alpine interface so that drove my decision on the head unit.
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      06-09-2014, 11:46 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Add some deadening to the kick panel where the woofer is.

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784148
Hey summers, do you mean do just add deadening to the plastic kick panel, or did you have some more elaborate sound-deadening strategy for the kicks? Can you please elaborate? Thank you.
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      06-09-2014, 12:29 PM   #22
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Hey summers, do you mean do just add deadening to the plastic kick panel, or did you have some more elaborate sound-deadening strategy for the kicks? Can you please elaborate? Thank you.
The area in the body(kick panel) where the speaker sits, there is a small cavity there that is all metal.
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