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      03-17-2012, 09:07 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by pungo View Post
If someone with a E85 could get a trace file from their DSP module using NCS Expert I could use NCS Dummy to show the differences between a E85 and my E86 and save the output. That will show us exactly what is different between the 2 cars. Though by looking at my E86 trace file, it looks obvious what the differences probably are.

I translated a few of the German words that may make a difference in loudness.

This is the factory coding on my E86:
GERADESTEIGUNG_LOUDNESS = JUST PITCH LOUDNESS value = E83 E86
ECKFREQUENZ_LOUDNESS = CUTOFF FREQUENCY value = E86
PEGELADAPTION = LEVEL ADAPTATION value = E86

Also almost every FILTERBAENKE1 through FILTERBAENKE55 is set to E86 for my E86 DSP module. Allowed values are E83, E85 and E86.

I guess I could change every value that is E86 to E85 and recode the DSP with the E85 values and listen to how it sounds. It would only take a few minutes to switch between E85 and E86 coding modes.

If I can find what function makes the bass louder and just code that while leaving all the other function setting alone, then this hybrid coding may make the system sound even better than just changing the all the coding of the E86 DSP to E85. I'm sure the acoustics of E85 vs E86 are much different. The BMW engineers have those 55 FILTERBAENKE to play with. I would really like to know details about those 55 FILTERBAENKE.
A Hybrid coding could make even more sense as you mentioned. Is it possible to recode an amp without taking it to the dealer or installing it in an e85?

I read the links on post #11 and tried to interpret it, but i'm having a tough time. You are way ahead of me on all of this already. pretty impressive stuff.
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      03-17-2012, 02:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by gtMc View Post
A Hybrid coding could make even more sense as you mentioned. Is it possible to recode an amp without taking it to the dealer or installing it in an e85?

I read the links on post #11 and tried to interpret it, but i'm having a tough time. You are way ahead of me on all of this already. pretty impressive stuff.
It is possible to recode the DSP module in my E86 to E85 specs without going to the dealer. Actually, from what I'm hearing the dealer can't do it without putting the amp in a E85. The software they use is probably idiot proof so they can't mess things up. The software I'm using is for the engineers to use who know what they are doing and will let you recode it anyway you want which you could mess things up if not careful. It's pretty easy, you just have to edit the file, or use NCD Dummy to change the values, then send edited file to the module. The problem is all these functions in the file are not documented and I can only go by the name of the function and guess what it does. Like those "filter bank 1-55" things, my guess is they are frequency levels.

My guess is that this amp is also used in the E83 since many of the values can be E83. Since the X3 has a much larger cabin, I wonder if telling the amp it's in a E83 would boost the bass level even more that the E85 value?
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      03-17-2012, 02:41 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by pungo View Post
My guess is that this amp is also used in the E83 since many of the values can be E83. Since the X3 has a much larger cabin, I wonder if telling the amp it's in a E83 would boost the bass level even more that the E85 value?
Wow - this could be great if its true. My wife has an E83, and it frankly sounds outstanding. Hers has the subs under the front seats, they appear to be rectangular grills. and according to what I've read, one of the 2 model numbers for the amp we have in the e85/e86 (65129125751) is also used in the E83. makes sense given the coding youve seen too.

So, holy grail would be to be able to get the 3 different coding profiles used in the e83, the e85, and the e86, set them all up, and sit there recoding the amp to each one, while its in the e86 until you have the one that sounds the best. Ultimately deciphering the code would be nice and all, but we just want to find out what e8'x' to match it to and were in good shape.
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      03-17-2012, 02:43 PM   #26
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i'd use mine as a guinea pig again but i'm already into this project for a few bucks, and dont want to spend anymore if possible considering i'm happy as is. but i'd be a guinea pig if I could do it @ zero cost.
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      03-17-2012, 03:55 PM   #27
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i'd use mine as a guinea pig again but i'm already into this project for a few bucks, and dont want to spend anymore if possible considering i'm happy as is. but i'd be a guinea pig if I could do it @ zero cost.
If you have a laptop and get a $12 VAG-COM cable with TL232RL chip then you could experiment. I'd really like to see the settings on the E85 and E83 DSP module. On top of that, the cable would allow you to read and clear error codes and run all kinds of diagnostics on your car.

Oh, I forgot I heard sometime in 2007-08 or so BMW changed the communication bus from K-LINE to D-CAN and the $12 cable only works with L-LINE. D-CAN requires a $50-$80 cable, but will also work with K-LINE too. Though, I wonder if BME bothered changing to D-CAN on the Z4 since it was the last year for that body. Too bad you don't live closer, I could try my cable on your car. I'm just on the west side of baltimore.

Though not related to this topic, I recoded triple blink turn signal, removed freeze warning buzzer, windows up with remote, decreased service interval from 25000km to 15000kl, remove buzzer for key in ign switch when door opens, activated tilt sensor(which dealer did not do, when they said they did) and a few other things.
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      03-17-2012, 04:15 PM   #28
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Those are all great coding ideas, I'd do them. I could get into the coding thing but only if I can learn from somone. I could see a road trip to baltimore at some point.

Just occured to me, why don't I swap amps with my wife's X3 and see what that does, rather than a recode of mine again. Very good chance the e83 doesn't work properly, speaker configuration could be entirely different.
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      03-18-2012, 07:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtMc View Post
Those are all great coding ideas, I'd do them. I could get into the coding thing but only if I can learn from somone. I could see a road trip to baltimore at some point.

Just occured to me, why don't I swap amps with my wife's X3 and see what that does, rather than a recode of mine again. Very good chance the e83 doesn't work properly, speaker configuration could be entirely different.
Do the swap when you have time and report back to us!
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      03-24-2012, 11:05 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Jumbosock View Post
Do the swap when you have time and report back to us!
Ok i'm finally back home and have been looking into this. From what little I have seen and read on it, it appears to be QUITE a task to actually pull the amp out of an E83. Kinda discouraging for me, so I will probably hold off on this unless I come across someone else with experience on it - or I get a lot of free time and courage.

In the mean time, about to bring the coupe in for its final in-warranty service and check up. Going to yank the amp out of it so they dont accidentally code over it at the dealership when its in for service.
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      04-01-2012, 05:36 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by gtMc View Post
Ok i'm finally back home and have been looking into this. From what little I have seen and read on it, it appears to be QUITE a task to actually pull the amp out of an E83. Kinda discouraging for me, so I will probably hold off on this unless I come across someone else with experience on it - or I get a lot of free time and courage.

In the mean time, about to bring the coupe in for its final in-warranty service and check up. Going to yank the amp out of it so they dont accidentally code over it at the dealership when its in for service.
Bringing this thread back to life as I got a chance to sit in gtMc's car and hear the difference first hand. From what I understand, I need a volunteer with a convertible Z with Nav system (just like mine) so I can ship them my amp and they install it in their ride, take a ride to the dealer and have it coded. I will reimburse you for the dealer charge (obviously) and your time!

Thank you!!!
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      04-01-2012, 05:44 PM   #32
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Was good for me too - to confirm the difference. It was quite noticable how significant it is. I'd say its night and day.

e85 amp = excellent stock system overall
e86 amp = terrible stock system overall

Anyone in an e85 could rightfully make a few bucks offering to swap amps; if they dont mind making a dealership run for a recoding of the e86 amp.
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      04-02-2012, 11:03 PM   #33
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Amp aside the coding suggestions above aren't new. For a while I messed with few options from triple blink, navi accept off, windows down with key fob. The one I REALLY wanted but could not do was disable the amber eyelids. I was only able to disable 2 of the 3 bulbs. Only person I know to successfully have done this is Starscream.

Pungo - if you can figure out how to disable all 3 bulbs please let us know!!! (keeping note of which lines/codes you have to turn off, I went down line by line and still no dice).
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      04-03-2012, 06:34 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
The one I REALLY wanted but could not do was disable the amber eyelids. I was only able to disable 2 of the 3 bulbs. Only person I know to successfully have done this is Starscream.

Pungo - if you can figure out how to disable all 3 bulbs please let us know!!! (keeping note of which lines/codes you have to turn off, I went down line by line and still no dice).
I could be wrong, but Shakib, didn't you succeed at this with that person that helped you code a few things?
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      04-03-2012, 08:26 PM   #35
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I could be wrong, but Shakib, didn't you succeed at this with that person that helped you code a few things?
Not sure what 2 of 3 lights are but my ambers (only the vertical one not the bottom row) only come on when I signal. Did that make any sense?
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      04-03-2012, 09:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
Amp aside the coding suggestions above aren't new. For a while I messed with few options from triple blink, navi accept off, windows down with key fob. The one I REALLY wanted but could not do was disable the amber eyelids. I was only able to disable 2 of the 3 bulbs. Only person I know to successfully have done this is Starscream.

Pungo - if you can figure out how to disable all 3 bulbs please let us know!!! (keeping note of which lines/codes you have to turn off, I went down line by line and still no dice).
I know that the coding suggestions aren't new, I was just showing that if someone wanted to recode their amp, they could do allot of other recoding while they were at it. Also, I didn't recode windows down with remote, the car came that way. What I recoded was for the window to go UP with the remote. The USA dealer won't do it because the USA people are so sue happy, they're afraid of being sued if someone got injured from it.

I recoded to disabling the amber eyelids and it worked, only thing is the rear side makers and front eyelid side makers went out too, so I turned them back on.
I did this:

SIDEMARKER_US PARKING LIGHTS ON WHEN HEADLIGHTS ACTIVATED (USA)
nicht_aktiv not active !US


Oh, wait, I think I need to do this:

SL_VO_ANSTEUERUNG FRONT PARKING LIGHTS CONTROL
nicht_aktiv not active
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      04-03-2012, 10:14 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakib View Post
Bringing this thread back to life as I got a chance to sit in gtMc's car and hear the difference first hand. From what I understand, I need a volunteer with a convertible Z with Nav system (just like mine) so I can ship them my amp and they install it in their ride, take a ride to the dealer and have it coded. I will reimburse you for the dealer charge (obviously) and your time!

Thank you!!!
The recoding is really easy and only requires a $12 cable, a laptop, install some software and do a little reading. I don't know why are willing to send their amps to someone and pay to have a dealer recode it. I figured out how to recode by myself in one evening by just doing a little reading and I don't even have a college degree. On top of that there's a ton of diagnostic s/w that gets installed and it's pretty cool to play with. Hopefully I'll never have a problem and need to use it for real.

Now, I'm going to have to recode my E86 DSP module to E85 specs and listen to the difference. Too bad someone can't read their E85 DSP module and post it so I can try it. I'll just have to make an educated guess as to what I need to change, which most of it is obvious.
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      04-03-2012, 10:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pungo View Post

I recoded to disabling the amber eyelids and it worked, only thing is the rear side makers and front eyelid side makers went out too, so I turned them back on.
I did this:

SIDEMARKER_US PARKING LIGHTS ON WHEN HEADLIGHTS ACTIVATED (USA)
nicht_aktiv not active !US


Oh, wait, I think I need to do this:

SL_VO_ANSTEUERUNG FRONT PARKING LIGHTS CONTROL
nicht_aktiv not active
Can you post a picture of the final result? Im basically going for this look...

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showpost...24&postcount=2

Not sure if you're saying you totally disabled the amber strip or if you left it partially on but I want it totally off, ONLY on when I use the turn signals.
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      04-03-2012, 11:04 PM   #39
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Pungo - just come up to NJ. Shakib, gtmc and I will pay for gas, tolls and a six pack for your trouble lol
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      04-03-2012, 11:48 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
Can you post a picture of the final result? Im basically going for this look...

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showpost...24&postcount=2

Not sure if you're saying you totally disabled the amber strip or if you left it partially on but I want it totally off, ONLY on when I use the turn signals.
Yes, I'm pretty sure they worked like the link you posted. I turned it back to stock because I lost the rear side bumper markers, so didn't play with it in that mode for very long. It looks like that guy went through allot of extra work, when one line of code would have the same effect. Only differnece is I have my DRLs enabled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
Pungo - just come up to NJ. Shakib, gtmc and I will pay for gas, tolls and a six pack for your trouble lol
Just come to MD and bring the beer, there are some nice twisty hilly back roads here!
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      04-04-2012, 06:17 AM   #41
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we could figure something out im sure. Pungo, any friends in your area with a roadster?

Indeed, sending the amp to someone and then paying for a dealer to recode it there is not what anyone really WANTS to do, but at this point its all we have been able to come up with, unless we figure out coding the way you have. Its great to see that you are comfortable with the process.
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      04-04-2012, 06:42 AM   #42
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I agree that sending an amp is not something you want to do.. However, the dealer has to have it installed in an E85 in order to code it.. The coding process they use is somehow through the ECU and is controlled by VIN number.. They don't go in and change individual values manually.. So I had to take my amp out of my MC and install it in my wife's roadster.. I then took the car to the dealer and had it coded to my wife's roadster.. I reinstalled it back into my MC and now I am rocking!! gtMc was in contact with me throughout this experimental process, and I am happy that I was able to help him with his audio issues.. It would be great if there was another alternative to doing what we did.. If you drive a Z4C or a MC, you should have great audio.. (when you aren't listening to the engine roar!!)
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      04-04-2012, 06:05 PM   #43
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the dealer has to have it installed in an E85 in order to code it.. The coding process they use is somehow through the ECU and is controlled by VIN number.. They don't go in and change individual values manually..
Pungo... I think this is the big question here. Based on the above - Is it actually possible to use the tools you have at your disposal to recode the amp? I ask out of ignorance....

If they are codeable.... then we load up M's with your favorite beer and all head for MD!
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      04-04-2012, 11:08 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by gtMc View Post
Pungo... I think this is the big question here. Based on the above - Is it actually possible to use the tools you have at your disposal to recode the amp? I ask out of ignorance....

If they are codeable.... then we load up M's with your favorite beer and all head for MD!
I think the dealer has to have it in the right car to code it because they are using the idiot proof s/w so they can't screw things up.

The s/w I'm using is intended for the engineers at BMW, so it allows you to do anything, even recode a E86 module to E85 specs.

The module I think that needs to be recoded is called the "DSP_E85.C02" even if it's in a E85 or E86. I read this module in from my E86 and changed all the values that had E86 to E85. I will recode my E86 with this new file and listen to the difference. I have a sound pressure meter that I will use so I can measure the difference besides just by my ears. Did you notice louder bass frequencies when you swapped to the E85 coded amp?

Here is diff file showing all the differences after I changed the values to E85.
Attached Files
File Type: txt E85-DSP_E85.C02-TraceDifferences.txt (20.7 KB, 440 views)
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