Camber Alignment for Auto-x/DD/HPDE

[Kgolf31]

Hey guys,

I came to the decision that I'm not going to get camber plates. It's not worth the money for the minimal gains (not to mention a bump in SCCA Class).

So, with that being said...I want to get a new alignment that won't increase excessive tire wear but still provide the gains that a camber plate set-up would provide.

I realize that the front cannot be adjusted, so basically I'm screwed? I don't know anything though with camber and toe ranges though.

As of now, both my DD and Auto-x Tires have outside wear. So some additional camber as of now will only help, not hurt.

Any suggestions?

I'm running a 30mm front bar if that helps.

[ZStig]

Front camber is adjustable a bit. There are these pins on top that should/can be removed, and the 3 nuts holding the assembly can be loosened. That will get you about -1.5* up front. Then you can add turner's camber washer kit, and get like -2.5* or a bit more.

I'm running -2.5* camber up front and its great for autox and DD wear, I also have the front toe at ZERO. feels wonderful

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle

Front camber is adjustable a bit. There are these pins on top that should/can be removed, and the 3 nuts holding the assembly can be loosened. That will get you about -1.5* up front. Then you can add turner's camber washer kit, and get like -2.5* or a bit more.

I'm running -2.5* camber up front and its great for autox and DD wear, I also have the front toe at ZERO. feels wonderful

I ordered Turner's kit earlier today w/some researching.

What's the specs in your rear? I was planning on going around -2 to -2.5 with zero toe up front. How many washers did you need to use to get -2.5?

[Finnegan]

2 washers. Take a look here for a bit more from The Hack.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

2 washers. Take a look here for a bit more from The Hack.

Okay, awesome.

Just to clarify, how do you push the strut in? Do you have to loosen up the 3 bolts?

By what Hack said, 2 washers will only get -1.7. Others said it gets them -2.5...I'm confused now when I thought I had it

[inTgr8r]

The 2.5 to 2.7 is with the washers plus adjusted at the top.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

The 2.5 to 2.7 is with the washers plus adjusted at the top.

Okay, so to clarify...install 2 washers, pull alignment pin, adjust top strut by pushing it towards the engine (by loosening the 3 bolts???) then alignment to zero out toe.

This correct steps?

[Shipkiller]

All of this is predicated on how thick the shims (washers) are. Some will get more, some will get less.

I have -2.5 with two matched sets of washers and the alignment pin installed.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Okay, so to clarify...install 2 washers, pull alignment pin, adjust top strut by pushing it towards the engine (by loosening the 3 bolts???) then alignment to zero out toe.

This correct steps?

Yes, this is correct. Stock with the strut pushed all the way toward the engine you can get ~-1.5. The to washers provide another ~-1.0 degree on top of that (total ~-2.5). If you use two washers, and have the struts pushed outwards, you end up around ~-1.7.

If you want the camber to be even side to side you're need to measure it yourself, or have it done as part of the alignment--the adjustment on the top of the strut tower is for fine-tuning.

If you're DIYing this, be very careful re-installing the bolts after attaching the washers. It's very easy to cross thread, and be sure to use red loctite. Lots on this and steps and cautions in this thread,

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Shipkiller

All of this is predicated on how thick the shims (washers) are. Some will get more, some will get less.

I have -2.5 with two matched sets of washers and the alignment pin installed.

So you never moved the strut towards the engine bay?

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Yes, this is correct. Stock with the strut pushed all the way toward the engine you can get ~-1.5. The to washers provide another ~-1.0 degree on top of that (total ~-2.5). If you use two washers, and have the struts pushed outwards, you end up around ~-1.7.

If you want the camber to be even side to side you're need to measure it yourself, or have it done as part of the alignment--the adjustment on the top of the strut tower is for fine-tuning.

If you're DIYing this, be very careful re-installing the bolts after attaching the washers. It's very easy to cross thread, and be sure to use red loctite. Lots on this and steps and cautions in this thread,

I'm going to get an alignment so I can zero out toe (and probably adjust the rear as well). I'm going to be throwing the washers and bolts on myself. Thanks for the information, I already have red loctite.

So if the camber is off on each side, just adjusting the strut towers on the rack will fix it?

I'm assuming all alignment shops know this?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

So you never moved the strut towards the engine bay?



I'm going to get an alignment so I can zero out toe (and probably adjust the rear as well). I'm going to be throwing the washers and bolts on myself. Thanks for the information, I already have red loctite.

So if the camber is off on each side, just adjusting the strut towers on the rack will fix it?

I'm assuming all alignment shops know this?

The alignment shop should know this. Strut can be moved in or out to get the the final camber number you specify.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

The alignment shop should know this. Strut can be moved in or out to get the the final camber number you specify.

Awesome guys. Can't wait to have an actual turn-in w/out understeer!

I ordered my shims this morning, and they shipped out already. By the end of the week I should have my camber good to go for autocross on Sunday.

[Kgolf31]

What rear alignment specs are you guys running as well? Should I leave it at stock camber and toe?

[ZStig]

I'm at -1.5* camber in back, its a lot LESS adjustable back there according to my local place

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle

I'm at -1.5* camber in back, its a lot LESS adjustable back there according to my local place

Toe in I'm assuming?

[Shipkiller]

Yes, I left the pins installed. I did this to get a baseline delta after installing the shims. I took each shim and measured them with a micrometer and mixed and matched each set so I was as uniform thickness as possible. Essentially I ended up with -2.5 left and -2.4 right. Since this was the values I was looking for, I left the pins in. I could get more camber by pulling the pins but I personally don't need -3+ on a daily driver.

Just remember, if you want to move the strut inward, you do have to take the weight off the car to do this....

For rear camber adjustment, each car will be a little different due to construction variations. I am able to get -2.0' of camber in the rear.

I leave 1/16" total toe in the rear for stability. This was the recommendation from the shop. Zero toe in the front.

One more thing about 'maintenance documentation'. Generate it and keep it.
You will spot trends that will lead you to potential problems.
Example: I get my suspension aligned every nine months or so. I keep the before/after alignment sheets in my maintenance book. After three alignments, I started to see a trend that the right rear was always out of alignment much more than the other side. When I had the car up on the alignment rack I asked the shop to investigate this. Easier for them than me. We found a faulty eccentric camber bolt.

I even keep an Excel spread sheet with all maintenance performed, by date, mileage etc.. receipts go in the back of the book.

[ZStig]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Toe in I'm assuming?

:dunno: I'm talking camber

[LastToy]

I decided to keep the centering pins out and move the struts toward the engine to lessen the chance of front tires rubbing against the struts. This would be a concern if you run wider tires. Turns out, there were plenty of space between the tires and the struts. I went with 1 washer inside and 2 washers out side. Ended up with 2.3 - 2.4 negative camber. I'm guessing 2 washers on the inside would give you ~3.2 to 3.3 maximum camber.

You actually have significantly more adjustability with the rear camber as is.

[Kgolf31]

Getting alignment tomorrow.

Looking to get:

-2.5 at 0 toe in the front

Between -1.5 ~ -2.0 at 1/16 toe in

Sound good?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Getting alignment tomorrow.

Looking to get:

-2.5 at 0 toe in the front

Between -1.5 ~ -2.0 at 1/16 toe in

Sound good?

What I'm running on both cars. Sounds good to me!

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

What I'm running on both cars. Sounds good to me!

Thanks!

Came back from alignment, ended up with -2.3 in the front at 0

In the rear, it was only -1.3 at 1/16 in.

The before rear was at -0.5, which was crazy out of spec. He got the most adjustment he could, but couldn't get anymore.

[E92M3Pilot]

Mine need to be done too, once I finished adjusting the new coil height. Is the rear camber adjustable without aftermarket parts? I'm hoping maxing out rear camber to (-1.8) can clear my rubbers, it is rubbing slightly on high speed bumps.
Any good alignment shop in Philly/jersey?