The official "Ask a cop/deputy anything!" thread

jamesinaz · 11-08-2021, 01:03 PM

I'm pretty sure I know what most people would do. Fire up their cell phone and hope for a viral video. Sadly.

________ · 11-08-2021, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

I'm pretty sure I know what most people would do. Fire up their cell phone and hope for a viral video. Sadly.

And be fired over it? Doubt that's what anyone would do…

________ · 11-08-2021, 01:22 PM

The answer for me is to try to assess the level of danger to himself and others, and isolate others/him as much as possible. E.g. take the key and other people and isolate him in the car.
De-escalate by asking others how to better interact with him.
Ask for reinforcements, so I could be one on one with others.
Run checks and set them on their way, or request an ambulance if severe/not possible to de-escalate.
If needed, immobilize the subject until said reinforcements/ambulance arrive.

Samurai of 2day · 11-08-2021, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murf993

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Our 5150 WIC laws require us to establish that a person is either a danger to themselves, a danger to others and/or gravely disabled. We establish that criteria based on statements made by the suspect/subject, witnesses on scene, the victim(s), etc. We can establish the gravely disabled requirement with a few key questions.

Yup, we call them EDP, Emotionally Disturbed Person. Challenged would be someone who has a disability. But danger to themselves or others is the thing that you need to determine. We use the same thresholds for dealing with the HBD types as well.

In NY, pretty much everyone is described as an EDP over the SOD net, even if it's just a person who is upset / angry / sad / making a scene

Murf993 · 11-08-2021, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai of 2day

In NY, pretty much everyone is described as an EDP over the SOD net, even if it's just a person who is upset / angry / sad / making a scene

That's one of the reasons we dropped the term MI Mentally Ill, EDP catches them all.

jamesinaz · 11-08-2021, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onesie

And be fired over it? Doubt that's what anyone would do…

Talking about most civilians these days. They'd stop and film a guy pouring gasoline on himself.

vreihen16 · 11-08-2021, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Talking about most civilians these days. They'd [s]stop and[/s] provide a gas can just so they can film a guy pouring gasoline on himself.

FTFY.

Sedan_Clan · 11-08-2021, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesinaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onesie

And be fired over it? Doubt that's what anyone would do…

Talking about most civilians these days. They'd stop and film a guy pouring gasoline on himself.

So true. Today's civilian will standby and watch a woman be raped on an NY subway…..and do absolutely nothing. Fucking cowards!

vreihen16 · 11-09-2021, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So true. Today's civilian will standby and watch a woman be raped on an NY subway…..and do absolutely nothing. Fucking cowards!

If you're talking about the Philadelphia story where the crowd allegedly filmed the rape on a SEPTA train last month, that part of the story turned out to be a fabrication by a police union spokesperson IIRC.

The big NYC subway problem these days are EDP's shoving people off of the platforms and onto the tracks in front of approaching trains. Besides the danger of the approaching train, there is the danger of a hot third rail to both the shoved party plus anyone who tries to rescue them.....

Murf993 · 11-09-2021, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vreihen16

If you're talking about the Philadelphia story where the crowd allegedly filmed the rape on a SEPTA train last month, that part of the story turned out to be a fabrication by a police union spokesperson IIRC.

The big NYC subway problem these days are EDP's shoving people off of the platforms and onto the tracks in front of approaching trains. Besides the danger of the approaching train, there is the danger of a hot third rail to both the shoved party plus anyone who tries to rescue them.....

The "citizen journalists" are a problem to be sure. Too many folks would rather take a picture or a video rather than lend a hand or call for help.

NorCalAthlete · 11-09-2021, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vreihen16

If you're talking about the Philadelphia story where the crowd allegedly filmed the rape on a SEPTA train last month, that part of the story turned out to be a fabrication by a police union spokesperson IIRC.

The big NYC subway problem these days are EDP's shoving people off of the platforms and onto the tracks in front of approaching trains. Besides the danger of the approaching train, there is the danger of a hot third rail to both the shoved party plus anyone who tries to rescue them.....

What's an EDP?

________ · 11-09-2021, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Quote:

Originally Posted by vreihen16

If you're talking about the Philadelphia story where the crowd allegedly filmed the rape on a SEPTA train last month, that part of the story turned out to be a fabrication by a police union spokesperson IIRC.

The big NYC subway problem these days are EDP's shoving people off of the platforms and onto the tracks in front of approaching trains. Besides the danger of the approaching train, there is the danger of a hot third rail to both the shoved party plus anyone who tries to rescue them.....

What's an EDP?

Emotionally disturbed person

vreihen16 · 11-09-2021, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murf993

The "citizen journalists" are a problem to be sure. Too many folks would rather take a picture or a video rather than lend a hand or call for help.

Didn't I just see a case in the news today about a guy who intervened in a mass shooting event and was shot/killed by responding officers?????

NorCalAthlete · 11-09-2021, 01:13 PM

Scenario (mods, feel free to prune if this is too contentious for this thread):

Lot of accusations flying with the Rittenhouse trial that police had "steered" protestors towards counter-protestors and taken a hands off approach.

Other issues with wild-speculation theories aside, it raised a few questions on crowd control / dispersion / diffusion.

1. IF police had attempted to stop anything...hell, it's an anti-police protest. I can't see that going well and would only escalate things.

2. So-called "Counter protestors" (to my knowledge at least) were not counter-protesting or marching so much as standing around (armed as a deterrent to property damage / looting / violence)

3. Crowd control is not in my area of expertise or knowledge of law enforcement activities, so in the opinion of the LEOs here - is it possible law enforcement on the ground there DID "steer" the crowds in an attempt to split them up / disperse them, but inadvertently this led to encounters with the counter-protestors (for lack of a better term for them)? Or, is it possible they steered P's towards CP's intentionally in hopes of conflict? This last is the accusation being thrown out and the basis of at least one lawsuit.

Sedan_Clan · 11-09-2021, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Scenario (mods, feel free to prune if this is too contentious for this thread):

Lot of accusations flying with the Rittenhouse trial that police had "steered" protestors towards counter-protestors and taken a hands off approach.

Other issues with wild-speculation theories aside, it raised a few questions on crowd control / dispersion / diffusion.

1. IF police had attempted to stop anything...hell, it's an anti-police protest. I can't see that going well and would only escalate things.

2. So-called "Counter protestors" (to my knowledge at least) were not counter-protesting or marching so much as standing around (armed as a deterrent to property damage / looting / violence)

3. Crowd control is not in my area of expertise or knowledge of law enforcement activities, so in the opinion of the LEOs here - is it possible law enforcement on the ground there DID "steer" the crowds in an attempt to split them up / disperse them, but inadvertently this led to encounters with the counter-protestors (for lack of a better term for them)? Or, is it possible they steered P's towards CP's intentionally in hopes of conflict? This last is the accusation being thrown out and the basis of at least one lawsuit.

Conflict is never what an LEO hopes for. Conflict means the potential for death or serious bodily injury not only for the disturbing parties, but also for you and/or your partners. Mitigation is the preferred approach.

NorCalAthlete · 11-09-2021, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Conflict is never what an LEO hopes for. Conflict means the potential for death or serious bodily injury not only for the disturbing parties, but also for you and/or your partners. Mitigation is the preferred approach.

Sure, and why I feel like it's the least likely possibility here. But also why I'm asking if it was possibly the inadvertent outcome of an attempt to split up and disperse the crowds.

Sedan_Clan · 11-09-2021, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Conflict is never what an LEO hopes for. Conflict means the potential for death or serious bodily injury not only for the disturbing parties, but also for you and/or your partners. Mitigation is the preferred approach.

Sure, and why I feel like it's the least likely possibility here. But also why I'm asking if it was possibly the inadvertent outcome of an attempt to split up and disperse the crowds.

It's possible that it was an unintended outcome due to the dispersal. Mobs shift quickly and there are only so many officers with boots on the ground.

TiMSport · 11-09-2021, 04:39 PM

Speaking of boots on the ground, I apologize if this has already been discussed, but any thoughts on that Travis Scott concert in Houston? I think I heard there were at least 500 police officers at the venue and something about folks knowing there could be violence at his concert. Apparently he has a bit of a history with encouraging shit among his fans. I haven't read up on every detail of this tragic incident but man, what a mess.

Sedan_Clan · 11-09-2021, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Speaking of boots on the ground, I apologize if this has already been discussed, but any thoughts on that Travis Scott concert in Houston? I think I heard there were at least 500 police officers at the venue and something about folks knowing there could be violence at his concert. Apparently he has a bit of a history with encouraging shit among his fans. I haven't read up on every detail of this tragic incident but man, what a mess.

It was a mess, plus people were being stabbed with syringes. What occurred is one of the primary dangers of concerts where everybody is standing.

TiMSport · 11-09-2021, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It was a mess, plus people were being stabbed with syringes. What occurred is one of the primary dangers of concerts where everybody is standing.

Say what? Stabbed with syringes?? I didn't hear about that but having a hard time understanding WHY. What was inside the syringes?

Sedan_Clan · 11-09-2021, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It was a mess, plus people were being stabbed with syringes. What occurred is one of the primary dangers of concerts where everybody is standing.

Say what? Stabbed with syringes?? I didn't hear about that but having a hard time understanding WHY. What was inside the syringes?

In my club hopping days people did it using HIV/AIDS infected needles. Your guess is as good as mine what the goal was for the perpetrators this time.

TiMSport · 11-09-2021, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

In my club hopping days people did it using HIV/AIDS infected needles. Your guess is as good as mine what the goal was for the perpetrators this time.

Ugh, that's just sick. I wouldn't go anywhere near a club if I knew that crap was going on.

11-08-2021, 01:03 PM	#4841
jamesinaz First Lieutenant 1647 Rep 363 Posts Drives: 2013 X3 2017 540i Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Arizona iTrader: (0) Garage List 2021 BMW X5 x40i [0.00]	I'm pretty sure I know what most people would do. Fire up their cell phone and hope for a viral video. Sadly.
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11-08-2021, 01:22 PM	#4843
________ ________ 4159 Rep 2,301 Posts Drives: ________ Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: ________ iTrader: (0)	The answer for me is to try to assess the level of danger to himself and others, and isolate others/him as much as possible. E.g. take the key and other people and isolate him in the car. De-escalate by asking others how to better interact with him. Ask for reinforcements, so I could be one on one with others. Run checks and set them on their way, or request an ambulance if severe/not possible to de-escalate. If needed, immobilize the subject until said reinforcements/ambulance arrive.
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11-09-2021, 01:13 PM	#4854
NorCalAthlete Lieutenant Colonel 3191 Rep 1,667 Posts Drives: '23 M4CX - Tanzanite / Tartufo Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (0)	Scenario (mods, feel free to prune if this is too contentious for this thread): Lot of accusations flying with the Rittenhouse trial that police had "steered" protestors towards counter-protestors and taken a hands off approach. Other issues with wild-speculation theories aside, it raised a few questions on crowd control / dispersion / diffusion. 1. IF police had attempted to stop anything...hell, it's an anti-police protest. I can't see that going well and would only escalate things. 2. So-called "Counter protestors" (to my knowledge at least) were not counter-protesting or marching so much as standing around (armed as a deterrent to property damage / looting / violence) 3. Crowd control is not in my area of expertise or knowledge of law enforcement activities, so in the opinion of the LEOs here - is it possible law enforcement on the ground there DID "steer" the crowds in an attempt to split them up / disperse them, but inadvertently this led to encounters with the counter-protestors (for lack of a better term for them)? Or, is it possible they steered P's towards CP's intentionally in hopes of conflict? This last is the accusation being thrown out and the basis of at least one lawsuit. __________________ Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity. The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. Wheel horsepower is just crank horsepower after taxes. IG: EmFore_650
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11-09-2021, 04:39 PM	#4858
TiMSport Banned 12803 Rep 2,983 Posts Drives: '21 M340i xDrive, '17 Audi S3 Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: ATL iTrader: (0)	Speaking of boots on the ground, I apologize if this has already been discussed, but any thoughts on that Travis Scott concert in Houston? I think I heard there were at least 500 police officers at the venue and something about folks knowing there could be violence at his concert. Apparently he has a bit of a history with encouraging shit among his fans. I haven't read up on every detail of this tragic incident but man, what a mess.
	Appreciate 1 Sedan_Clan25116.50 Quote