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      03-06-2016, 08:14 PM   #1
StickMon
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Vibra Technics to BimmerWorld Motor Mounts

So as you may have heard, when I got my car back from Lang after having the big ends done, I had a major vibration at cold idle.
Thought it was the exhaust, but couldn't find anything.
I eventually discovered that the right side VT mount had cracked.

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It wasn't looking like I was going to be able to rebuild the VTs in a timely manner, so I ordered up some BimmerWorld mounts.

I figured the cause of the failure was probably heat, since it was the right side near the headers.
My original stock right side cracked also, but after 7.5 years and 88k miles.
The VT only lasted 2.5 years and 44k miles.
So before I put new mounts in, I wanted to make a better heat shield.
Thanks to Varinn for finding this older model heat shield and stash1 on M3forum for suggesting this Kevlar heat blanket.

Just poked 6 holes around the edge of the heat shield and attached a pleated swath of Kevlar with pop-rivets and washers.

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I was planning on doing some more trimming after fitting it it the car, but once I got it in there I decided it was good enough.
Probably has more material at the bottom than it needs, but it's got a nice big "cat flap".
Top coverage isn't as good as I had hoped. I left 2" of Kevlar above the rivets. Should have left 3", but I still think it's a lot better than the stock shield.

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Last edited by StickMon; 03-06-2016 at 09:00 PM..
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      03-06-2016, 08:27 PM   #2
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Doing Up the Nuts and Bolts

Can any shop be trusted?
Not to rip on Lang, since they seem to have done a good job on the big ends, and Andrew seems like a nice knowledgeable guy, but ...

The first thing I noticed was that they reused the front reinforcement plate bolts, because they all had the Sharpie marks that I used to do the 90 final twist.

And then when I went to remove the VT mounts I found what was probably the source of the vibration I had ever since getting it back.
There was some shmuts on the left side top nut. Looked like some Monkey Grip or something they used to hold the nut in the socket.
I stuck my index finger in there to brush it away, and the nut spun with the slightest touch. It was less than finger tight.

But they made up for it on the right side. The top nut was so tight I had to hammer it off with an impact wrench.
And not just a little. Had to set my wrench to max torque and turn the air up to 100 psi and let it bang for about 15-20 seconds before it finally popped loose.

Not sure why they took the top nuts off instead of the bottoms.
Vanne posted a pic of his big ends being done and you can see his mounts dangling from the block.
Seemed like the obvious choice.
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Last edited by StickMon; 07-28-2017 at 04:10 AM..
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      03-06-2016, 08:28 PM   #3
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BimmerWorld Mount Review

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Only had one minor issue installing the BW mounts.
Note in the picture above that the stud is square where it first come out of the mount.
I guess that's so it will press in tight on the frame like a clinch stud?
Dunno, but if that's the idea I think they overdid it a little.
I filed around them so I could at least get them started into the hole by hand.
Otherwise they would rock around and I was afraid they'd go in crooked or spin so the locating pin was out of position.
I think once I got the weight of the motor on them and socked the bottom nuts down they pulled in, but can't say for sure.
If not they'll probably sink the rest of the way over time, which will slack the bottom nut.
Good thing I used nylocs. They didn't come with nylocs. They didn't come with any hardware at all.
They came with BimmerWorld stickers and Gummi bears.

NHV? You betcha!
When I put the VT mounts in, there was the slightest vibration at idle. Nothing noticeable at higher revs.
With the BW there's pretty healthy massage action at idle.
More than just a massage. It's like there's a boom in the trunk jammin' Ess-Fiddy-Fo's greatest hits.
Above 1k the vibe goes away, but up around 3k I can hear more of the whirly bits in the engine.

I've only been around the block a coupe of times to shake it down. I'll have a much better assessment after I drive to work and back tomorrow.
I don't mind the vibe, although I now have a few more rattles in the dash, and I like hearing the whirly bits.
But if you're sensitive to NHV, I would recommend against them.

And I just put run-flats on, so now I'm hard coupled to everything.

Edit: After the engine gets up to temp the "boom in the trunk" effect at idle goes away, and the vibe isn't all that bad.
If you've gone from stock to VT, and noticed some extra vibe, double it.
(If that makes any sense).
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Last edited by StickMon; 03-08-2016 at 01:14 AM.. Reason: Update on NVH
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      03-06-2016, 08:29 PM   #4
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Vibra Technics Autopsy

Here's a quick pic on the bench. You can tell which is the right side.

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Here's a few more angles:

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The bit squeezing out points right at the cat.
Well, let's see if it comes apart.
Those bolts are done up pretty tight. This may take a while.
Yep gonna need a jig, or maybe a kajigger.
I know I have one somewhere. Hmm, this? No. This? Almost.
Ahh! That's just the thing!

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Once they're broke loose, screws come right out.
Nothing under compression. Not going to fly apart and embed itself in your forehead.

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Drum roll please!

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Well. Sort of anticlimactic. It's mostly empty.
Now what?
I chucked it up in a vise and the bolt won't budge. Not sure how it's connected to the top plate.
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Last edited by StickMon; 03-06-2016 at 10:02 PM..
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      03-06-2016, 08:45 PM   #5
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Cant wait to see how the VT mount is constructed
And if you need that special jig to put them back together again like they said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
The first thing I noticed was that they reused the front reinforcement plate bolts, because they all had the Sharpie marks that I used to do the 90 final twist.
TBH I also always reuse those bolts and never had any problems. I know BMW recommends changing them.
(but that doesnt excuse them for the loose nut obviously (or the very tight one))
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      03-06-2016, 10:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
The first thing I noticed was that they reused the front reinforcement plate bolts, because they all had the Sharpie marks that I used to do the 90 final twist.
This is extremely uncool and a terrible corner to cut. I don't know exactly the extent of the work you had done but replacing the reinforcement plate bolts was probably small potatoes cost-wise. Thanks for posting this for future reference for myself and others in the area.

As I've posted on here before, several years ago I decided my trusted and world-renowned indie wasn't being quite as careful with my cars as I would have liked and decided to start tackling anything that I could myself. So far I haven't had to take the cars to anyone but I dread the day. They always seem to screw up the one thing you forgot to mention or didn't think you had to!
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      03-06-2016, 10:28 PM   #7
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Less than $25 a set, and the work I had done cost over 2-large. I would have thrown in another 25 bucks.
I always keep a sack of 10-20 on hand.
I torque them per spec, although I think I read somewhere you're not supposed to do the final 90 with an impact wrench.
I don't have enough gravitational attraction. If I try to pull them by hand I shoot out from under the car.
After banging them the final 90 I'm willing to believe they're stretched, and I wouldn't want to stretch them twice.
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      03-06-2016, 11:55 PM   #8
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I always keep about 15 around since they're used quite a bit between my E46 and E86. I know what you mean about shooting out from under the car on the final 90 but I've gotten ok at it after doing it a few times. It's a none too pretty ballet for me that involves bracing against whatever I can. They are indeed stretched, I checked them with a micrometer the first time I switched them. I don't recall how much they stretched though.
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      03-07-2016, 12:02 AM   #9
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The only thing I could figure to brace myself against was the jackstands.
Probably would have been fine, but that only has to go wrong once.
Be careful down there!
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      03-07-2016, 04:04 AM   #10
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Thanks for the write up. Great info!
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      03-07-2016, 06:48 AM   #11
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thanks for the info and sadly stick even the MOST trusted of shops need to be kept on their toes, if they or any shop senses a lack of knowledge or care on your part they will take the piss, redish motorsport a very respected shop over here uk side recently got a rough end of dealing with me when i called them out on certain practices, they dealt with it in a professional manner but i could tell id realy hurt our future working relationship.... In their case a valve inspection without changing the gaskets left me pissed, i won't even go into the tight valve shim that in the end i had to dig in and replace myself as they wanted to remove the cams and vanos to remove it ( i did it within 2 mins slightly depressing the valve with a plastic trim tool, measured and re-shimmed that valve having never seen the inside of an s54 before)!!

On further probing they are very happy to say they NEVER change VGC on the s54 unless they leak, to me thats MADNESS...

so in answer to your question i go in educated NO matter the shops Rep, check work over thoroughly but they are all the same with varying degree's of piss take, its just a cheque for these people at the end of the day.

With what you've said re the Tq on those nuts of the VT bolts, that hasn't helped their life and more to the point, i wouldnt want them building me an engine, like it or not little knocks in this world sink ships and loose trust very easily for the real car enthusiast.
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      03-07-2016, 06:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
Now what?
I chucked it up in a vise and the bolt won't budge. Not sure how it's connected to the top plate.
Interesting construction (pretty simple actually), I'd imagined a bit differently.

I think the bolt is glued with loctite.
So to get that loose you have to grip the aluminium disc really tightly (probably with aluminium vise liners) and use a really strong impact (not a chinese one, but something like a snap on/ingersoll rand/CP)

I wonder if there's an inner bushing to set the distance for how far the bolt is screwed in the aluminium top piece or that it's just screwed in to a certain point (and have the loctite set it in place)

I think it's a good idea to make some more extensive heatshielding than the stock aluminium plate, to prevent this heat detirioration (although I dont live in a hot climate and my cats are relocated under the car)
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      03-07-2016, 09:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
The only thing I could figure to brace myself against was the jackstands.
Probably would have been fine, but that only has to go wrong once.
Be careful down there!
I've always had the car up on Lift Stands to do anything like that. As you say, I'd be a little concerned if I were using jack stands.
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      03-07-2016, 11:59 AM   #14
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Love the metal shelf jig. Does the head of the large stubborn bolt rest on the metal when it is inserted into the bottom of the metal cup, or is it suspended?

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      03-07-2016, 01:19 PM   #15
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I'm really surprised at the construction of the VTs. That's really cool that you had the opportunity to pull them apart. I'll keep looking back at this.

I wonder if my new Jet Coated headers will help preserve them, or if all of us are doomed to encounter the same issues.
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      03-08-2016, 01:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
... So to get that loose you have to grip the aluminium disc really tightly (probably with aluminium vise liners) and use a really strong impact (not a chinese one, but something like a snap on/ingersoll rand/CP) ...
I don't think I have a good way to hold the disk without tearing it up.
Not going to try and take it apart further. It's now a paperweight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyNC View Post
Love the metal shelf jig. Does the head of the large stubborn bolt rest on the metal when it is inserted into the bottom of the metal cup, or is it suspended?

Salty
It doesn't hit the bottom of the cup.
It doesn't hit anything now that it's unloaded, but there's a mark on the stubborn bolt and a corresponding mark on the round head of the bottom bolt.
They were definitely doing each other after the rubber gave way.
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      03-08-2016, 01:22 AM   #17
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BimmerWorld Mount Update

Put a couple of hours on the BW mounts to work and back today.
The "boom in the trunk" effect at idle goes away once the engine's up to temp.
Only slightly more vibe than the VTs at idle, no really noticeable vibe off idle, and definitely a little more sound of all the whirly bits in the 3000-3500 rpm range.
You know, that S54 trademark sound of the rocker arms, the timing chain, and the Vanos.
Love that sound!

BimmerWorld FTW!!
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      03-08-2016, 08:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
They were definitely doing each other after the rubber gave way.


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      03-08-2016, 06:09 PM   #19
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Stickmon,

Do you notice any difference in shifting after going from the VT to BM mounts? Still smoother than stock mounts?

Salty
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      03-08-2016, 08:14 PM   #20
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I haven't hit it with G loads that would make a difference.
I think I only had one "second gear denial" on the stock mounts, and that may have been self induced.
Doubt it would be an issue with these. They're pretty darn stiff.
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      03-11-2016, 01:18 PM   #21
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Final Step

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      03-11-2016, 07:05 PM   #22
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