Got my Gruppe M and RPI scoop in today

[mousitch]

Intoxicating sound. Not sure of power improvement but the sound........makes heads turn. Thanks to a forum member for hooking me up. A great deal.
Next week Eisenmann race exhaust being put on. Will have some drive by vids. Ought to sound insane. Damn mods!

[a_riddler]

Congrats, they don't call it the Dark Side for the cookies...

Intoxicating those mods...

[mousitch]

Originally Posted by shift@red

i love the gruppe m intake...im actually waiting on a set of rpi scoops as well. how is the intall on them?

Not bad really. Of course much easier 2nd time round. I only use two screws and that seems to work great, You need a LONG phillips. It makes it so much easier. Magnetic tip too if possible. On a side note, How often do we need to clean and oil the filter on the intake?

[chanzs]

A video pls!!!

I tend to feel the Gruppe M sounds better than any exhaust mods...

[r4gs]

piqued interest here - how and what deal in particular did u get from a zposter on the gruppe m?

[mousitch]

Originally Posted by r4gs

piqued interest here - how and what deal in particular did u get from a zposter on the gruppe m?

A local guy from here(mo) that sold his Z4M had a Gruppe and a Rpi laying round. $800 for both. Works for me.

[ZStig]

careful, a loud exhaust might drown out most of the intake sounds

[mousitch]

Thought bout that. If that's the case I could always resell the race and get something quieter. We shall see.....It was too good a deal to pass up at the time.

[ZM4000]

gruppe M + rpi scoops= lost of power
not much u wont even feel it 5-7 hp

[r4gs]

^i've read about that loss of power but am skeptical at best.

anyway, i've been meaning to ask this for sometime now - could the cai (gruppe m or afe) owners chime in on how much of an improvement in engine sound there is after installation please? range from 1 to 10, 1 being minimal improvement, 10 being outrageous + completely changes the aural feel of the car. responses are much appreciated!

[ZM4000]

Originally Posted by r4gs

^i've read about that loss of power but am skeptical at best.

anyway, i've been meaning to ask this for sometime now - could the cai (gruppe m or afe) owners chime in on how much of an improvement in engine sound there is after installation please? range from 1 to 10, 1 being minimal improvement, 10 being outrageous + completely changes the aural feel of the car. responses are much appreciated!

The boss of RPI himself said it.

[mousitch]

Originally Posted by r4gs

^i've read about that loss of power but am skeptical at best.

anyway, i've been meaning to ask this for sometime now - could the cai (gruppe m or afe) owners chime in on how much of an improvement in engine sound there is after installation please? range from 1 to 10, 1 being minimal improvement, 10 being outrageous + completely changes the aural feel of the car. responses are much appreciated!

I'd give it an 8. Sounds so good that 7hp decrease doesn't bother me. This is coming from a guy that use to sweat gaining Every hp I could on my last M. It sounds that good. If I removed the scoop will I get those hp back? hmm

[r4gs]

^glowing reviews indeed! are there any significant differences between the gruppe m and afe intakes other than aesthetic design? the afe is almost half the price of the gruppe m new and has the option of a dry filter as opposed to oiled, making maintenance that much easier.

[mousitch]

I read where the Gruppe has a better sound but I cant say for sure. I know it looks cool.

[esqu1re]

Originally Posted by ZM4000

gruppe M + rpi scoops= lost of power
not much u wont even feel it 5-7 hp

Is it simply heat soak?

If it is just heat-soak, then wouldn't the RPI help a little in that regard? If we take the RPI scoop out of the equation then, there would be even more loss of power from the GRUPPE M alone?

Gruppe M = more loss of power?
Gruppe M + RPI = Lesser loss of power?

Does someone know?

[johanness]

I don't believe you lose 7hp. No way. Maybe the M5 had issues with AFE, but that would be a one-off. If anyone has true dyno results on our Z4M's, that's one thing. Otherwise I don't believe the hype.

Heat soak is what happens when the block and manifold continue to rise in temp after the car is shut off, since there is no longer coolant or air flowing through it. So it IS something that can happen when your sitting in traffic. But are you really driving like a bat out of hell when you're stuck in traffic??

But if you're talking about your IAT temps, that is something that will rise and fall with movement of the car and will effect performance..... short ram style intakes tend to see IAT's raise quicker, but they fall just as quickly as well. Not to mention, even if the intake is warm, the air is in the tube for AN EXTREMELY short period of time anyway when the car is moving. My $0.02. I'm getting an AFE unless I can find a used GruppeM

[mfanatic325]

I know for a fact that the E46 3-series (non-M) M54 engines had heat soak issues with this same GruppeM design, whether it be authentic GruppeM, or the Simota replicas. Since the Z4M got the same design, I've never sprung for it. I have personal experience with loss of power on my E46 325. I don't have back-to-back dynos unfortunately, but just trust me. I sold mine for this very reason.
But I guess it's because the S54 M motor in the Z4M is powerful enough to not really matter; so for most people, the increase in aural satisfaction outweighs the loss in power.

The E46 M3's GruppeM intake system on the other hand was spectacular. It also cost a crap load of money for back in the day (probably still costs quite a penny). But imho, if that design was carried over to our Z4M's, I'd probably spring for a kit

[Starscream]

I do not feel any loss of power with my GruppeM and RPI scoop,
Honestly I do feel the engine breathing much better with it, However I do have the ESS tune and Roman said it adapts to mods so I would guess the DME would see either more or a colder charge of air coming from the intake combo and adjusts the fuel mixture accordingly,

I really do not think you loose any power,
I have it mated up to a supersprint powerloop set and the sound is very intoxicating,

Sounds very exotic, I love the sound,

the GruppeM takes over from the exhaust under WOT

[mfanatic325]

haha, I guess before and after dynos are required to prove the heat-soak. In any case, the power loss is minimal at best. I wouldn't worry about it. It's just that I can't personally justify the price of any of the intakes out there for our cars unless they prove to actually yield significant gains from the stock airbox (which they spent a lot of R&D time/money on)

[r4gs]

^significant gains may be a stretch, since it's always going to be difficult to extract much more power from the already incredibly engineered s54.

so if my understanding is correct, either the afe or gruppe m intake will significantly enhance engine sound the closer one gets to wot?

[mfanatic325]

Originally Posted by shift@red

You can still get power from highly tuned engines. Guys do it with GT3s and Ferraris and those are much more highly tuned than any engine BMW has ever put out.
It may not be the type of gains you get from a FI engine, but power under the curve is what is truly important.

hehe perhaps it's because Ferrari and Porsche's engines are just that much more capable out of the box, and there's more power to be had for relatively cheaper. I still think money is wasted on the S54 unless one puts it towards a supercharger. I personally will rule out all NA mods for my S54 aside from mufflers for sound, and a tune to smoothen out the rev range. But that's just cuz I don't have that much money to blow on nice shiny parts

[pokeybritches]

Didn't RPI base their scoops on the factory box, and therefore their business depends on the customer using that factory air box?

http://www.raceprecision.com/2009/in...d=52&Itemid=27

I don't doubt their honesty, and IMHO their systems probably do slightly increase horsepower. I respect them from breaking with the norm and attempting to R&D a new approach, rather than market the common perception that CAIs have a cone filter and heat shield. But, anyone with half a brain can look at the aFe/Gruppe M and see it increases airflow vs the stock system. At 40 mph, I have a hard time believing that the intake will suck up the air behind it instead of the rush of cool air coming in, especially when it has a heat shield.

All I'm saying is that it's in RPI's best interests to have the customer use the factory airbox, so I wouldn't base my purchase decision solely on their recommendation. While it's in aFe and Gruppe M's best interests to disprove those dyno results with a dyno of their own (which no one would believe anyway), I doubt they add a significant power gain that would justify their price in terms of performance. Sound, yes. Performance, no.