Z4M Coilover Review / Comparison.

[tikamak]

Hello there, we need a comparison of coil over setups in this forum that should cover the following and review them:

H&R street performance
KW V3
KW Club sport
Bilsstein PSS10
TC Kline
...
MOTON maybe but that's a pure race bred no?


Help me and the rest of the new Z4M owners to find out which coil over setup is most suitable for them and their driving style. So please when you do a review of a setup, please mention the following:

• Ride comfort / types of roads you drive on / behavior on road imperfections
• Performance (Body roll)
• Configuration
• Price
• Use (Racing/street/...)
• Quality and ability to rebuild or exchange faulty parts

Hoping that this does not stray away from the purpose of being a very informative thread for me and others that are seeking coil over setups for their Z4M.

Personally i am interested in street/track setup as my car is my daily driver and the roads absolutely suck where i live.

[tikamak]

Come on peeps, where are you enthusiasts.

RESERVED for summary later on.

[Shipkiller]

What about AST's?

[tikamak]

I didn't mention all the coilover setups, AST is definitely included.
Care to review it? Any experience with AST CO ?

[tikamak]

Bump ...

[herragge]

Do a search champ.

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403119

KW V3, KW ClubSport, Ground Control are all reviewed in that one thread.

[inTgr8r]

More here....
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468972

[arggg45]

I stole this from a forum that shall not be named, but it basically does what you were looking for.

TCK

Advantages:
Quality Proprietary KONI dampers w/custom front housing (also D/A rear)
Infinite spring choices within capabilities of damper @750 pounds/inch
High quality lightweight Vogtland VVS wire springs
Springs can be changed out without needing to corner balance car again
High quality Teflon monoballs throughout where applicable
Complete kits with all needed components
Strong customer service

Disadvantages:
slightly pricier than competition (GC)
D/A rear shocks rattle update: they no longer rattle
linear spring means it does not ride as well as KW

Target Market:
Three groups (determine by spring rate and shock selection):
1) Street drivers wanting a good ride, moderate handling increase, and a reasonable drop
2) Serious street/track drivers wanting to maintain civility
3) Pure track drivers looking for a significant handling increase without Moton expense


Ground Control

Advantages:
KONI dampers
Infinite spring choices within capabilities of damper @750 pounds/inch
Complete kits with all needed components
Very price competitive
Some innovative/unique product designs (sways, Front Control Arm Bushings)

Disadvantages:
Some KONI items off the shelf and or modified
Slightly worse ride than competition (TCK) at any given spring rate
linear spring means it does not ride as well as KW

Target Market:
Three groups (determine by spring rate and shock selection):
1) Street drivers wanting a good ride, moderate handling increase, and a reasonable drop
2) Serious street/track drivers wanting to maintain civility
3) Pure track drivers looking for a significant handling increase without Moton expense


KW V3

Advantages:
High quality materials and manufacture
Complete kits with all needed components
progressive springs means comfortable ride
Inox (stainless steel) shock body means no corrosion

Disadvantages:
Minimal spring choices
Progressive springs means car does not handle as well as linear spring kits-- GC and TCK

Target Market:
Two groups:
1) People wanting the lowest drop possible, regardless of handling tradeoffs
2) People wanting a reasonable drop and a better than stock ride, with a moderate street handling increase

JRZ/Moton/AST

Advantages:
Very high quality of manufacture and materials
Easy to get real world results from adjustment of dials
Very wide range of spring applications without revalving
Robust design means minimal rebuilds by race damper standards

Disadvantages:
Very high cost
Race quality components wherein all parts need be speced separately
must sacrifice civility to gain full benefit over traditional coilovers

Target Market:
Serious street/track or dedicated track drivers

Ohlins

Advantages:
Very high quality of manufacture and materials
Well damped as delivered from factory
Somewhat broad range of spring applications without revalving

Disadvantages:
Very high cost
Race quality components wherein all parts need be speced separately

Target Market:
Serious street/track or dedicated track drivers not caring about civility


Penske

Advantages:
Very high quality of manufacture and materials
Tend to be harsh on compression when delivered even if custom speced
Somewhat broad range of spring applications without revalving

Disadvantages:
Very high cost
Race quality components wherein all parts need be speced separately

Target Market:
Serious street/track or dedicated track drivers not caring about civility

Disclaimer: I am in no way saying that one is better than the other, as they all depend on what you are going to use them for and what you are willing to spend.

[Endless619]

There are a few more Japanese setups out there. There is quite a few now that most don't know about.

[tikamak]

These are wonderful my friends. very nice.
I now lack a proper H&R review and some price comparison between them with a potential bang for the buck and what's better than what for street/track/race comparison.
If you have these infos, it would be wonderful to aggregate them in a single thread.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by tikamak

These are wonderful my friends. very nice.
I now lack a proper H&R review and some price comparison between them with a potential bang for the buck and what's better than what for street/track/race comparison.
If you have these infos, it would be wonderful to aggregate them in a single thread.

One main thing of note with H&R is that there is NO shock adjustment.

[tikamak]

How does the H&R compare with the KW Club sport / GC / TCK in terms of:
1. performance
2. ride comfort

Any ideas inTgr8r ?

[arggg45]

Originally Posted by tikamak

How does the H&R compare with the KW Club sport / GC / TCK in terms of:
1. performance
2. ride comfort

What kind of performance? Are you looking to track your car heavily or just every-so-often? Are you looking for a decent drop or a canyon road carver.

Ride comfort is more a function of spring rates than damper valving.

To answer your question though, H&R is not a performance coilover in the same sense of the KW CS, GC, or TCK, because there is no adjustability in the shock for compression or rebound.

The KW CS is a more track-focused suspension setup. As such, it has a year-long warranty, IIRC. You may want to consider the V3, as the ride is going to be 'better' (Progressive Springs) and they are cheaper. That said, your tuning ability is limited as there aren't exactly hundreds of combinations of progressive springs. I have never run them, (I ran KW suspension on my R32 before I sold it) If you look around, you will see quite a few members run these.

TCK is essentially a proprietary valving inside a Koni damper. I have never run them. From my understanding, there are quite a few members running these.

If this is your first ever set of coil-overs, I strongly recommend getting single-adjustable, because you will learn how to to tune the car's drivability more accurately than if you had double, triple, or quad-adjustable suspension where you can make the additional adjustments mask the way the car is handling. This will allow you to take advantage of added adjustability down the road.

[tikamak]

Yes this is my first CO.
I am looking for a street/Track setup where I can get the most performance and stability out of my DAILY DRIVER without being undriveable on some pretty fu**ing shi**y roads here in my country .

I am now thinking about GC and TCK sets. they seem to offer some really serious performance and with a better than the rest price, especially that they come with with camber plates and RSM and spring perches and most things that you would need if you were to buy an other coilover setup.
How do THESE compare against the KW Club sport in terms of track performance/real road performance?

PS: I just hate bodyroll.

[tikamak]

Isn't it better if i choose a preset unadjustable coilover and save the price of the adjustment feature for better quality and performance?

[JPWEraser]

What about the H&Rs for a pretty good ride with street use only? I hate to dump tons of money into a suspension that I will never use just to get the car lowered where I want it. I don't want to do springs due to the fact that it'll blow the struts relatively soon.

[tikamak]

I don't like / have no intention of lowering the car
I don't care if the set can lower 3-4 inches it WILL be set to the highest setting.

I want good performance (lowest body roll possible) / an acceptable ride

[JPWEraser]

Originally Posted by tikamak

I don't like / have no intention of lowering the car
I don't care if the set can lower 3-4 inches it WILL be set to the highest setting.

I want good performance (lowest body roll possible) / an acceptable ride

I'm not sure you understood my post, I was asking the above question for my own needs, not suggesting it for yours.

[The HACK]

You're going about this all wrong. If your goal is to have a nice DD with a handful of track days sprinkled in, and you want to reduce what little body roll this chassis already have, you are better served with the stock suspension and MAYBE swaybar upgrade, and get an extra set of rims with better tires for track use.

The MZ4 chassis is pretty good out of the box with one of the stiffest production chassis in the world. The only weak point of the chassis is the dampers and the tires. And even the dampers aren't all that bad, especially for daily driving use.

Coil overs are mainly for the ease of corner balancing and a big benefit on track. Had a set of GC coil overs not become available for me for cheap I'd still be driving on stock suspension right now, and the MZ4 Coupe is primarily driven on weekends at the track now.

[tikamak]

Originally Posted by The HACK

You're going about this all wrong. If your goal is to have a nice DD with a handful of track days sprinkled in, and you want to reduce what little body roll this chassis already have, you are better served with the stock suspension and MAYBE swaybar upgrade, and get an extra set of rims with better tires for track use.

The MZ4 chassis is pretty good out of the box with one of the stiffest production chassis in the world. The only weak point of the chassis is the dampers and the tires. And even the dampers aren't all that bad, especially for daily driving use.

Coil overs are mainly for the ease of corner balancing and a big benefit on track. Had a set of GC coil overs not become available for me for cheap I'd still be driving on stock suspension right now, and the MZ4 Coupe is primarily driven on weekends at the track now.

Thanks a lot for the above, you do have a major point and it is well taken. However, I do need a track/street setup that would not give me any back pains on a heavily patched roads where i would normally slow down the car a bit with stock suspension for a somehow smooth pass.

Tell me about the GC coilovers ? How do they compare against the KW Club sport? do you feel that the car is wayyyy better than stock with these when it comes to cornering and track performance?

[arggg45]

Originally Posted by tikamak

Thanks a lot for the above, you do have a major point and it is well taken. However, I do need a track/street setup that would not give me any back pains on a heavily patched roads where i would normally slow down the car a bit with stock suspension for a somehow smooth pass.

Tell me about the GC coilovers ? How do they compare against the KW Club sport? do you feel that the car is wayyyy better than stock with these when it comes to cornering and track performance?

Then slow down on the street. What HACK said is exactly right, get a good set of aftermarket wheels and sticky tires.

There is a reason that someone with tons of track experience in a stock Miata will run circles around someone in a Corvette that's new to the track

[The HACK]

Can't compare the GC kit with anything but the stock suspension since those are the only suspension I have experienced on this car.

And even then a comparison isn't really possible. After the GC kit was installed I had the car professionally corner balanced and aligned to my specifications. The alignment and corner balancing probably did more to improve the car's handling than the coil over kit. I still contend that all this chassis really needed was a set of good dampers and that's that. Unfortunately GC wanted more $$$ for a rebound adjustment only damper set than what a used set of coil over kit would cost me, and this is with my friendly "industry" discount. Frankly, for what I do, THAT (damper upgrade only) would have been plenty enough.

Which isn't to say the GC kit is not a damn good kit. It is still somewhat street-able and livable on a daily basis and really shines in a DE environment. And since I picked it up o. The cheap used I can't complain...since buying a new set of dampers would have cost me more.