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      06-14-2020, 12:50 PM   #1
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Should I upgrade from 3.0i to M?

This is something I've been running through my head over and over and am having a very hard time coming to a decision around.

I currently own a 90k mile 2003 Z4 3.0i 6-speed. I've loved it since the moment I bought it ~4 years ago. I use it as my daily driver and frankly I think it's a perfect fit. Very reliable, much more practical than you'd think, still turns heads and looks way more expensive than it is... you get it, you own one too!

Due to my living situation I'm having to reduce from 3 cars, down to 2. This will mean getting rid of one of my long time project cars (that I've now kind of lost interest in), which will result in ~$15k of extra money in my pocket. I have a hard and fast rule than any $$ coming out of a car, should go back into a car, so I'm thinking about an upgrade.

I never really considered upgrading to the M, until a few months ago when I ran across a low mile black exterior, red interior, carbon trim example for $19k. Fate had it that the car would not be mine, but the seed was planted and now I can't stop this tree from growing.

I've since test driven a couple other M's, just to get a feel for them, and frankly I'm not so impressed. I love the looks, I love that they're rare/cool, I love that it will hold it's resale value, but frankly the straight line performance does not seem particularly impressive. I have an S52 swapped e30 that feels much faster than the z4m (probably just difference in torque curve). I know it's not all about straight line performance, but around town it kind of is.

I have a hard time rationalizing paying $10k+ on essentially an upgraded version of my current car, until I realize the cost of making a 3.0i into an M would likely be even greater, and probably have worse results. Anyways, there's another black on red on carbon z4m that's popped up for sale locally and it's really in my head again. Went and test drove it yesterday, and once again... lack luster. Especially since it's from a dealer that, all said and done, will likely cost like $23k to pick it up.

Tell me folks, have you made this switch? How do you feel after the fact? Any thoughts on moving to e89 sdrive35i manual (despite them being IMPOSSIBLE to find in that spec)?
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      06-14-2020, 01:14 PM   #2
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The M won't be anything impressive until you get past 5k rpm. If it doesn't impress you or doesn't speak to you, then it's not the right car for you. Don't force yourself into a car based on perceptions of others.
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      06-14-2020, 01:47 PM   #3
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Seeing as you let go of a project car, you probably wouldn't want to do an S85 swap... but have seen many videos with them in a Z4, and it would be amazing to own one. You can buy a used S85 for 5k-12k all day. And since it would be out, rebuild would be recommended. Saw a post on here about the total cost around 25k , but that is having other people do the work. Its still an option, all be it an expensive option.

For me it would be nice, as I plan on keeping my Z4 for good. I use mine a semi daily driver along with Harley, and truck. I never understood "trailer/Garage queens" Autos were built to be driven!
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      06-14-2020, 01:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drocket77 View Post
Seeing as you let go of a project car, you probably wouldn't want to do an S85 swap... but have seen many videos with them in a Z4, and it would be amazing to own one. You can buy a used S85 for 5k-12k all day. And since it would be out, rebuild would be recommended. Saw a post on here about the total cost around 25k , but that is having other people do the work. Its still an option, all be it an expensive option.

For me it would be nice, as I plan on keeping my Z4 for good. I use mine a semi daily driver along with Harley, and truck. I never understood "trailer/Garage queens" Autos were built to be driven!
Now, why do you even need to bring up an M Roadster with the S85 V10 residing under the long hood of the car for? The man just said he got bored with his previous project car.

And now you have him going down an even bigger rabbit hole and I am going to help you dig it!


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      06-14-2020, 02:37 PM   #5
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Haha I love you guys suggestions and enthusiasm, but this vehicle would need to at least share daily driving duties. Way more project status than I'm looking for, but believe me, this is the kind of stuff I'm always dreaming about!

Another question... how rare is black with red interior and carbon trim? I'm thinking pretty rare, but maybe I'm wrong?
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      06-14-2020, 03:47 PM   #6
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I had a 3.0si and an M at the same time. I enjoyed them both very much. I did finally sell the 3.0si but I honestly still miss it.

For a daily driver I'd keep the 3.0i. Upgrade it to a 3.0si with 3 stage intake manifold + associated changes to the tune; this is very popular, well documented, and won't affect reliability. It *will* give you 50 extra horsepower. And consider a limited slip differential too. That's what I would have done with my 3.0si if I had kept it.
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      06-14-2020, 04:15 PM   #7
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Can you do the si upgrade on a precfacelift car?
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      06-14-2020, 07:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Huz-Z View Post
Can you do the si upgrade on a precfacelift car?
I have no idea I didn’t know it mattered.
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      06-14-2020, 10:41 PM   #9
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Straightline performance isn't really the M's party piece, like you mentioned; it's that induction howl on your favorite backroad when it's screaming over 4K. That's where all the torque is, you have to rev it out. While it does have *just* enough torque down low it's less than your engine in the midrange.

I would actually recommend you look into the E89 Z4, you'll not find torque lacking and it's objectively a better daily/GT. Can usually find them in or under your budget. I'm fuzzy on the model designations but I think the 35is is the twin turbo dual clutch, but the 30i and 35i were single turbo with manual options on early models. Someone will chime in on how close I was, or you can swing by the E89 side of zpost.

Alternatively, Z4s regularly live past 150K miles so you're hardly in the danger zone, might just hold on to yours a bit longer unless you really feel it's time for a change.
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      06-14-2020, 11:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I have no idea I didn’t know it mattered.
It matters. Pre-facelift got the M54 engine (up to 2005) on the 3.0i and post facelift (2006+) got the N52 engine, which you can do the Si 3 stage intake manifold. No such modification can be done to the M54 engine.
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      06-14-2020, 11:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaberti View Post
Straightline performance isn't really the M's party piece, like you mentioned; it's that induction howl on your favorite backroad when it's screaming over 4K. That's where all the torque is, you have to rev it out. While it does have *just* enough torque down low it's less than your engine in the midrange.

I would actually recommend you look into the E89 Z4, you'll not find torque lacking and it's objectively a better daily/GT. Can usually find them in or under your budget. I'm fuzzy on the model designations but I think the 35is is the twin turbo dual clutch, but the 30i and 35i were single turbo with manual options on early models. Someone will chime in on how close I was, or you can swing by the E89 side of zpost.

Alternatively, Z4s regularly live past 150K miles so you're hardly in the danger zone, might just hold on to yours a bit longer unless you really feel it's time for a change.
I'm deep into research on the e89. The 35is has an n54 but only comes with DCT. The 35i is also n54 and comes with a manual, however they're very rare. There are like 5 for sale in the US right now. Lot's of people like to post theirs up as being a manual when they're actually DCTs.

There's a pretty nicely modified 35i manual for sale near me right now but it's red, which is a color I refuse to own. Tried to go drive it this weekend (had to drive 2 hours to get there) and they had the damn thing sitting in the show room with no realistic way to get it out. Plus the sales guy was a giant tool "Can you afford this car? Will you buy it today? How are you paying? How's your credit? Did you bring a pay stub?". Um no, I'm never buying anything from you sir.
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      06-15-2020, 05:44 AM   #12
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S54 has tons of character, individual throttle bodies, sound, revs. Find someone with a Z4M who will let you drive it a bit harder and then you will know for sure. This is not something you want to do on a whim only to find out it wasn't worth it. That said, I doubt you'd be LESS happy with the car though your wallet may be.

I have an N52 equipped 128i and there is no comparison between the engines but I realize there are not so insignificant differences between the Z's implementation of the motor but if it helps there's no contest in my mind between my two BMW's. The S54 is incredible and arguably more enjoyable than my 991.1 around town (at 70+ mph though fun in the Porsche takes over).
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      06-15-2020, 07:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proboner View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaberti View Post
Straightline performance isn't really the M's party piece, like you mentioned; it's that induction howl on your favorite backroad when it's screaming over 4K. That's where all the torque is, you have to rev it out. While it does have *just* enough torque down low it's less than your engine in the midrange.

I would actually recommend you look into the E89 Z4, you'll not find torque lacking and it's objectively a better daily/GT. Can usually find them in or under your budget. I'm fuzzy on the model designations but I think the 35is is the twin turbo dual clutch, but the 30i and 35i were single turbo with manual options on early models. Someone will chime in on how close I was, or you can swing by the E89 side of zpost.

Alternatively, Z4s regularly live past 150K miles so you're hardly in the danger zone, might just hold on to yours a bit longer unless you really feel it's time for a change.
I'm deep into research on the e89. The 35is has an n54 but only comes with DCT. The 35i is also n54 and comes with a manual, however they're very rare. There are like 5 for sale in the US right now. Lot's of people like to post theirs up as being a manual when they're actually DCTs.

There's a pretty nicely modified 35i manual for sale near me right now but it's red, which is a color I refuse to own. Tried to go drive it this weekend (had to drive 2 hours to get there) and they had the damn thing sitting in the show room with no realistic way to get it out. Plus the sales guy was a giant tool "Can you afford this car? Will you buy it today? How are you paying? How's your credit? Did you bring a pay stub?". Um no, I'm never buying anything from you sir.
I understand personal preference about car colors, but if the car is potentially a good fit (ignoring the salesman) you can always wrap the car a different color. I wouldn't discount a car on that.
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      06-15-2020, 08:13 AM   #14
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Different supension, brakes from CSL, hydraulic steering and sublime engine with third gear pull that never fails to impress! Maybe you need another "test drive".
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      06-15-2020, 09:00 AM   #15
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If you are keeping the S52 swapped E30 I would recommend holding strong with the 3.0 coupe as a commuter.

I daily drove my Z4M coupe for two years in the San Francisco area and I absolutely love the car and still own it. That being said, there is zero doubt in my mind that a softer suspension 3.0 coupe would have been just as fun on the street (if not more) during weekdays and cheaper on my wallet.
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      06-15-2020, 09:10 AM   #16
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S54 has much more aftermarket support than a M54 or N52 as far as bolt ons go. It seems logical to me if you love the car for what it is and want more performance from it, you can go to town on tuning the engine, suspension etc and getting the max from the Z4M platform. The key would be to find a good example that has been properly maintained. And like mentioned earlier, hydraulic steering, brakes, suspension setup etc are all above and beyond the 3.0i and 3.0si models.

But if the suspension is only thing that makes the Z4M a not very good commuter, all you need is a set of proper coil-overs that are easily adjustable. Frankly I don't understand why it comes up all the time as a problem. Stock suspension kind of sucks anyway and on higher mileage examples must be changed anyway.
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      06-15-2020, 09:25 AM   #17
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Knowledge is power so be sure to be aware of the 3.0si variant of the Z4. Some reviews:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ake-road-test/

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/2007...ad-test/53868/

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.moto...omparison/amp/

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ake-road-test/

Last edited by Huz-Z; 06-15-2020 at 09:32 AM..
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      06-15-2020, 10:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Zed View Post
If you are keeping the S52 swapped E30 I would recommend holding strong with the 3.0 coupe as a commuter.

I daily drove my Z4M coupe for two years in the San Francisco area and I absolutely love the car and still own it. That being said, there is zero doubt in my mind that a softer suspension 3.0 coupe would have been just as fun on the street (if not more) during weekdays and cheaper on my wallet.
Somehow every car I've ever owned has had relatively harsh suspension, including the 3.0, and frankly I think the z4m might even be an improvement. In terms of DD duty, harsh suspension doesn't scare me too much... as long as the GF approves and she LOVES the z4. All she ever needed was convertible and heated seats!
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      06-15-2020, 10:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proboner View Post
Somehow every car I've ever owned has had relatively harsh suspension, including the 3.0, and frankly I think the z4m might even be an improvement. In terms of DD duty, harsh suspension doesn't scare me too much... as long as the GF approves and she LOVES the z4. All she ever needed was convertible and heated seats!
Well in that case get a set of Bilsteins struts or a full blown coilover setup and have at! Good examples at low prices will not be around much longer
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      06-15-2020, 10:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMetal View Post
The M won't be anything impressive until you get past 5k rpm. If it doesn't impress you or doesn't speak to you, then it's not the right car for you. Don't force yourself into a car based on perceptions of others.
▲▲▲THIS! If you are not impressed driving an M vs your 3.0i, it isn't the car for you. In my case I was strongly considering a brand new 2008 3.0si and when I drove the M, it was over. The steering alone was enough to make the decision. The raw nature/feel of the M is also a big draw. I don't DD mine (it is just over 20k miles at present) but every time I take her out, I remember why I keep her in the stable.
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      06-15-2020, 11:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proboner View Post
Somehow every car I've ever owned has had relatively harsh suspension, including the 3.0, and frankly I think the z4m might even be an improvement. In terms of DD duty, harsh suspension doesn't scare me too much... as long as the GF approves and she LOVES the z4. All she ever needed was convertible and heated seats!
I feel the same about stock BMW suspensions. They ride high and still manage to be harsh and jarring. I've just put the ST X coilovers on my Z4 and these seem to have waaaaaaay better control. These are same as KW V1 and made by KW in Germany. ST X are very reasonable price wise. Somehow these control compression and rebound (non-adjustable but specifically designed for the vehicle) so well that even though it feels firm and planted you don't get the harshness that comes with the stock suspension even with crap RFT tires. And with normal tires it is infinitely better. Properly setup suspension will also keep your tires glued instead of hopping up and down.
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      06-15-2020, 11:57 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMetal View Post
The M won't be anything impressive until you get past 5k rpm. If it doesn't impress you or doesn't speak to you, then it's not the right car for you. Don't force yourself into a car based on perceptions of others.
Agree.

Z4M
- solid platform
- could rise in value (if stock, low miles)

If you're not into it for those reasons, it's not for you. Get something with a solid platform and a turbo so you can easily boost power. Good luck.
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