Should you buy a high mileage BMW?

[GMe90]

Here are my thoughts:

[Sterling Roadster]

I always tell people who ask, it's a great second or third car. Something to have fun with but if you are used to leasing and not doing anything but oil changes you will probably hate it. If you've always wanted an Z3, Z4, 128i or something fun go for it. But in terms of reliability I wouldn't want to have just one older bimmer.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sterling Roadster

I always tell people who ask, it's a great second or third car. Something to have fun with but if you are used to leasing and not doing anything but oil changes you will probably hate it. If you've always wanted an Z3, Z4, 128i or something fun go for it. But in terms of reliability I wouldn't want to have just one older bimmer.

I have both a '97 Z3 (M44) bought new and a ' 08 Z4 Coupe (N52) bought used in December 2015 with 23,000 miles. The Z3 has 191,000 miles on it and the Z4 now has 104,000 miles. The Z3 being one of the first models built at Spartanburg has some build quality issues, but it has never left my wife stranded on the road. In September 2017, we just took it out West on the on a 5,000 road trip from Virginia with 177,000 miles on the clock.

The Z4 was the last BMW "car" built at Spartanburg and the build quality vastly improved over the Z3. My Z4 has been the most trouble free BMW (of the 5 I've owned). I also have a '06 E90 (N52) with 393,000 miles on it. It required just a single tow truck event when the water pump gave up the ghost at 149,000 miles on a 100 deg. July day in 2011.

All cars need maintenance and repairs.

[Sterling Roadster]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have both a '97 Z3 (M44) bought new and a ' 08 Z4 Coupe (N52) bought used in December 2015 with 23,000 miles. The Z3 has 191,000 miles on it and the Z4 now has 104,000 miles. The Z3 being one of the first models built at Spartanburg has some build quality issues, but it has never left my wife stranded on the road. In September 2017, we just took it out West on the on a 5,000 road trip from Virginia with 177,000 miles on the clock.

The Z4 was the last BMW "car" built at Spartanburg and the build quality vastly improved over the Z3. My Z4 has been the most trouble free BMW (of the 5 I've owned). I also have a '06 E90 (N52) with 393,000 miles on it. It required just a single tow truck event when the water pump gave up the ghost at 149,000 miles on a 100 deg. July day in 2011.

All cars need maintenance and repairs.

That's true but it does often come down to luck of the draw. There have been plenty of people throughout the forums who have babied their cars and ran into expensive issues at no fault of their own. When people say luxury brands are unreliable they don't take into account that innovation has risks. Of course a V6 camry or four-cylinder civic is more likely to be reliable, they've slowly improved upon the same engine for decades. That doesn't fly in luxury cars. Potential buyers want something new. Take iDrive, it was a total revolution when it was new. 15 years later, it could render the car unusable if it's not working and very expensive to replace in an old 5, 6 or 7. And yet almost every manufacturer now uses their own version of an iDrive. If you don't absolutely love the car and appreciate it, it makes zero financial sense. Like a ten-thousand dollar home theater when you barely watch tv.

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have both a '97 Z3 (M44) bought new and a ' 08 Z4 Coupe (N52) bought used in December 2015 with 23,000 miles. The Z3 has 191,000 miles on it and the Z4 now has 104,000 miles. The Z3 being one of the first models built at Spartanburg has some build quality issues, but it has never left my wife stranded on the road. In September 2017, we just took it out West on the on a 5,000 road trip from Virginia with 177,000 miles on the clock.

The Z4 was the last BMW "car" built at Spartanburg and the build quality vastly improved over the Z3. My Z4 has been the most trouble free BMW (of the 5 I've owned). I also have a '06 E90 (N52) with 393,000 miles on it. It required just a single tow truck event when the water pump gave up the ghost at 149,000 miles on a 100 deg. July day in 2011.

All cars need maintenance and repairs.

Thats an incredible amount of mileage on your E90 N52. I'm only at 135,000 miles. Only tow that wasn't caused by my driving or road hazards was a dead starter about 10,000 miles ago. I still say thats good considering I used it for everything including a few long distance road trips and hauling tiles and building supplies around. Its been a very utilitarian and practical vehicle overall! It is causing me money though which I'd continue to pile in but I'm going deeper into this innovation trap because I want a newer 4 door now that I have Z4M and others as a small two door sports car.

[Gamb1t]

Key to buying older German cars is to go for simplicity. The least amount of electronic gizmo the better.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sterling Roadster

That's true but it does often come down to luck of the draw. There have been plenty of people throughout the forums who have babied their cars and ran into expensive issues at no fault of their own. When people say luxury brands are unreliable they don't take into account that innovation has risks. Of course a V6 camry or four-cylinder civic is more likely to be reliable, they've slowly improved upon the same engine for decades. That doesn't fly in luxury cars. Potential buyers want something new. Take iDrive, it was a total revolution when it was new. 15 years later, it could render the car unusable if it's not working and very expensive to replace in an old 5, 6 or 7. And yet almost every manufacturer now uses their own version of an iDrive. If you don't absolutely love the car and appreciate it, it makes zero financial sense. Like a ten-thousand dollar home theater when you barely watch tv.

You'll have to explain how iDrive could render a 15 year old BMW undrivable.

The Valvetroninc and VANOS on both my N52s have been extremely reliable, far more reliable than vacuum-controlled point/condenser ignition systems of the 1970s. I'll take electronic fuel injection and ignition over a carburetor/point-ignition system any day of the week. The rest is just software at this point.

[Sterling Roadster]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

You'll have to explain how iDrive could render a 15 year old BMW undrivable.

The Valvetroninc and VANOS on both my N52s have been extremely reliable, far more reliable than vacuum-controlled point/condenser ignition systems of the 1970s. I'll take electronic fuel injection and ignition over a carburetor/point-ignition system any day of the week. The rest is just software at this point.

Well I wouldn't see the point in driving a 100,000 luxury car with no radio or bluetooth and comfort features for one. And while i'm happy you've had great luck with your BMWs, statistically these cars need more service and attention than simpler power-trains. Ask anyone with an N54, S54 or S85 for example. That doesn't mean they're worse. They are incredible engines for what they are, but for someone who doesn't appreciate them they could be a nightmare. I've been through close to a dozen BMWs and am still a fan. But i'm not going to recommend them to everyone. The driving experience is worth the potential risk to me. I'm not hoping to go back to 1970s technology either, just saying innovation has risks. The question was, should I buy a high mileage BMW and my point was that it depends on the buyer. That's all.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sterling Roadster

Well I wouldn't see the point in driving a 100,000 luxury car with no radio or bluetooth and comfort features for one. And while i'm happy you've had great luck with your BMWs, statistically these cars need more service and attention than simpler power-trains. Ask anyone with an N54, S54 or S85 for example. That doesn't mean they're worse. They are incredible engines for what they are, but for someone who doesn't appreciate them they could be a nightmare. I've been through close to a dozen BMWs and am still a fan. But i'm not going to recommend them to everyone. The driving experience is worth the potential risk to me. I'm not hoping to go back to 1970s technology either, just saying innovation has risks. The question was, should I buy a high mileage BMW and my point was that it depends on the buyer. That's all.

Luck has nothing to do with it. Proper maintenance. I've owned 5 BMWs, 3 new purchases and 2 used.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Sterling Roadster

When people say luxury brands are unreliable they don't take into account that innovation has risks. Of course a V6 camry or four-cylinder civic is more likely to be reliable, they've slowly improved upon the same engine for decades. That doesn't fly in luxury cars.

Poppycock. Lexus a.k.a. Toyota turned the luxury world on its head with innovative, less expensive, *reliable* automobiles. The Germans scrambled to compete. Honda engine technology is some of the most innovative and technologically advanced on the planet, and their reliability is legendary. German cars' high maintenance requirements and leaky gaskets has nothing at all to do with "luxury", it has to do with design philosophies and manufacturing methods.

[Sterling Roadster]

Originally Posted by wdb

Poppycock. Lexus a.k.a. Toyota turned the luxury world on its head with innovative, less expensive, *reliable* automobiles. The Germans scrambled to compete. Honda engine technology is some of the most innovative and technologically advanced on the planet, and their reliability is legendary. German cars' high maintenance requirements and leaky gaskets has nothing at all to do with "luxury", it has to do with design philosophies and manufacturing methods.

Lexus does seem to have a better track record for reliability from the stats I’ve found but they have had some issues as well. What manufacturer doesn’t. It’ll be interesting to see how the hybrid tech ages, who knows. I think depreciation is effected by maintenance and cost of ownership. That’s why e60 M5’s go for less than a Kia Forte. I’ve looked down the barrel of that gun many times, oh how I would love a V10. Anyways I agree overall production engineering is important. I wish I knew more about how that all gets decided. Hopefully I’ll get a factory tour one day.

[Huz-Z]

I make sure my E70 X5 is babied and gets all the TLC it needs and things still break that in Japanese brands would be operational original parts when the car is at end of life and going to the junkyard. The E85 and E86 platforms seem to be happy exceptions to reliability issues on many BMW products so let’s be thankful there.

As a side note, I followed some of the reporting on the joint Toyota -BMW development of the current G29 Z4 / Supra cars and there was more than one report talking about things that Toyota sent back to BMW to be redesigned to bring reliability up to Toyota standards. While I personally think that for the money BMW charges their reliability should be best in the industry, and that they should be both ashamed and embarrassed that Toyota sent stuff back for not being good enough, at least perhaps G29 Z4 owners can take some comfort that some components of their car should be as reliable as a common and much cheaper Toyota Corolla.

BMW needs to recognize that luxury means reliability. A car that doesn’t run properly or at all and costs a bloody fortune to fix when it breaks is not as luxurious as the economy car that provides years of trouble free service.

[Sterling Roadster]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

I make sure my E70 X5 is babied and gets all the TLC it needs and things still break that in Japanese brands would be operational original parts when the car is at end of life and going to the junkyard. The E85 and E86 platforms seem to be happy exceptions to reliability issues on many BMW products so let’s be thankful there.

As a side note, I followed some of the reporting on the joint Toyota -BMW development of the current G29 Z4 / Supra cars and there was more than one report talking about things that Toyota sent back to BMW to be redesigned to bring reliability up to Toyota standards. While I personally think that for the money BMW charges their reliability should be best in the industry, and that they should be both ashamed and embarrassed that Toyota sent stuff back for not being good enough, at least perhaps G29 Z4 owners can take some comfort that some components of their car should be as reliable as a common and much cheaper Toyota Corolla.

BMW needs to recognize that luxury means reliability. A car that doesn’t run properly or at all and costs a bloody fortune to fix when it breaks is not as luxurious as the economy car that provides years of trouble free service.

Wow that's really interesting. Obviously this stuff would need to be kept under wraps for public image but I would love to know the conversations they had and what changes BMW had to make. I personally love the idea of manufacturers working on cars together. I think the BRZ/86 is a great car. A BMW sports car with Toyota reliability? Match made in heaven.

[Huz-Z]

From https://www.quora.com/Does-Toyota-Su...-with-BMW-help

“When the contract was settled and BMW provided their engine, Toyota took it apart and the first thing they did was began their reliability tests on it.

Apparently they change a handful of parts and redesigned other components so that the engine could meet Toyota reliability standards.”

[TF07Z430i]

Could it partly be because Toyota also has reputation for very low and inexpensive maintenance as compared to BMW? The changes they made may be as much for that.

A few years ago I purchased an 06 X3 with 150K miles on it. I bought it as a second car to use as a winter beater. It was not what I would consider great shape. But the thing always started and ran great. It did have its issues but most were inexpensive DIY repairs and I liked the thing so much I made a project out of it. I learned so much about that car and BMWs. After a few years about putting about 30K miles on it i got rid of it and I ended up with my Z4. If you have tools and are handy and enjoy the work, I would not shy away from higher mileage BMW for a second car as long as it has one of the reliable engines.

[Huz-Z]

A dead transfer case, just one of the many components to fail So far on my X5, is a several thousand dollar repair, even with a rebuilt part. If not for the extended warranty on my car, I’d be screwed.

The turbocharged engine in the current Z is horribly complex and a potential disaster

[Sterling Roadster]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

A dead transfer case, just one of the many components to fail So far on my X5, is a several thousand dollar repair, even with a rebuilt part. If not for the extended warranty on my car, I’d be screwed.

The turbocharged engine in the current Z is horribly complex and a potential disaster

Yikes, that's brutal. Happy to hear it was covered. I had an E83 X3 that had a failed front driveshaft which was pricey, and the transfer case had to be replaced by the previous owner. I hear it's a common thing on X-drives. The first gen X1 was a disaster from what I've read, rod bearing issues and so on. I hope the newer engines age well because I would love a 230i M-sport down the road. I think they've done a great job with the feel of the four-cylinder overall.

[creativeliberty1776]

Originally Posted by GMe90

Here are my thoughts:

So if you Married an over weight, older, divorced, Hispanic Lady would that count as "purchasing a High Mileage BMW"?