Popular cars you'd never ever buy

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by GTS Daddy

Alfa Romeo anything. Just not brave enough.

Soft.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by GTS Daddy

Alfa Romeo anything. Just not brave enough.

This is easily fixed. You buy three so that you have one that's working, one in the shop that's in the process of being "fixed" (not possible, but still), and one the shop tells you will be ready "real soon now". Just so the neighbors don't cotton-on to your situation, get them all in the same color!

My first bike was Italian (Ducati). I learned.

My first car was British (Bugeye Sprite). I learned...again.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i think thats a poor arguement because a ton of people buy M cars and the m brand has definitively become a lifestyle brand for many... especially if u look at certain population segments / countries

the BIG difference being... M cars arent junk

I guess we hang around different people. The only people I know who would even know what an M car is are only car people. None of the regular people I know have any idea what an M car is, probably think it's a Mercedes or something. Now BMW in general might be a lifestyle brand, but IMO that encompasses a much larger group of people. Versus I feel Wranglers and Subarus are much more narrow.

But hey that's just my theory. If you have a better theory for why people buy Wranglers then I'm all ears.

[John4C]

Tesla anything


Little more controversial but anything non-Porsche from VAG. Audi, Lambo, etc. none of it appeals to me. The most appealing non-Porsche they sell (IMHO) is probably the Golf R.

[DocOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by garyfried

I cannot handle Kia or Hyundai. They are the Japanese car manufacturer of the 2000's. They do not appear to have an original design of their own and are very able copiers of every other brand on the market. I hate renting a car and getting stuck with one of these. In the future I will make sure that I'm not renting these POS'S.

A lot of people think of them as rip offs, but you have to understand why. H/K/G poached a LOT of good people from other high profile brands including Audi, Bentley, Lotus, and most importantly Albert Biermann of BMW’s M division. Their design languages carried over to newer Korean models. As for being “POS” vehicles, maybe a long time ago, but not now, and data on reliability backs that up. I’d sure as hell take them over anything GM is cranking out lately.

[DocOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by ASAP

4runner / Tacoma - I have no idea why anyone on earth would buy these dinosaurs... i saw one up close and thought I opened up a history book

I have a new Tacoma, and it’s charming for its own reasons.
1) Manual transmission. It’s the only option.
2) Stoooopidly good reliability. I could put a .22 lr in the block and I’m pretty sure it would still run.
3) Vast availability of aftermarket parts. If you like to tinker and customize, it’s amazing.
4) Many people want simple, not cutting edge. Everything has a button, and there’s not a speck of cheap gloss black plastic in the cabin.
5) Build quality. Even with an aftermarket stereo and 10” sub, there isn’t even a hint of a rattle or squeak in the cabin. As momma used to say, it’s build like a brick shithouse.
6) Resale. It’s insane. Three year old trucks with 70,000 miles sell for 90% of new.

[G82xDrive]

Originally Posted by DocOfTheDead

I have a new Tacoma, and it’s charming for its own reasons.
1) Manual transmission. It’s the only option.
2) Stoooopidly good reliability. I could put a .22 lr in the block and I’m pretty sure it would still run.
3) Vast availability of aftermarket parts. If you like to tinker and customize, it’s amazing.
4) Many people want simple, not cutting edge. Everything has a button, and there’s not a speck of cheap gloss black plastic in the cabin.
5) Build quality. Even with an aftermarket stereo and 10” sub, there isn’t even a hint of a rattle or squeak in the cabin. As momma used to say, it’s build like a brick shithouse.
6) Resale. It’s insane. Three year old trucks with 70,000 miles sell for 90% of new.

Absolutely. The Tacoma is an extremely charming truck. On paper it may be dated but it’s very easy to live with (and costs nothing to own).

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by DocOfTheDead

I have a new Tacoma, and it’s charming for its own reasons.
1) Manual transmission. It’s the only option.
2) Stoooopidly good reliability. I could put a .22 lr in the block and I’m pretty sure it would still run.
3) Vast availability of aftermarket parts. If you like to tinker and customize, it’s amazing.
4) Many people want simple, not cutting edge. Everything has a button, and there’s not a speck of cheap gloss black plastic in the cabin.
5) Build quality. Even with an aftermarket stereo and 10” sub, there isn’t even a hint of a rattle or squeak in the cabin. As momma used to say, it’s build like a brick shithouse.
6) Resale. It’s insane. Three year old trucks with 70,000 miles sell for 90% of new.

I'll give you this... I think a better argument is that the Tacoma has a very good size for a pickup, not many trucks of this size exist because most people choose in favor of full size i.e. F150. I also think visually it's real good looking especially w the TURD parts. As far as your other comments-

1) Sure... but why on a pickup? It's not a sports car... I am not surprised there are no other trucks with this option left.

2) Yes but that's because it's based on ancient tech... it has an NA V6 w no power and no torque. Per motortrend, it does 0-60 in 9.2 seconds lmao... sure trucks aren't about performance but that means that it would see a Civic's tailights in acceleration runs. It also still uses drum brakes in the rear, gets 18 MPG combined and is virtually identical in 2023 as it was in 2014.

3) So does an F150, Silverado, Ram etc...

4) Which pickup does this NOT apply to? Maybe an F150 lightning or Cybertruck... but can't really think of any other.

5) Yes, I agree.

6) That again, goes back to peoples inherent belief that it is the best solely based on reliability. Which again, if an NA V6 doing 0-60 in 9 seconds is how people base that, then yea i agree with you... it would have good resale.

Last but not least, it's not really cheap... TRD Pros sell for $55K... that can get you a real nice F150, overall a far better pickup on just about any front except maybe reliability... but at least I could get a real engine in that truck.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I guess we hang around different people. The only people I know who would even know what an M car is are only car people. None of the regular people I know have any idea what an M car is, probably think it's a Mercedes or something. Now BMW in general might be a lifestyle brand, but IMO that encompasses a much larger group of people. Versus I feel Wranglers and Subarus are much more narrow.

But hey that's just my theory. If you have a better theory for why people buy Wranglers then I'm all ears.

I genuinely do not have a better theory... i think most people just think it's a cool car with a history without understanding why it's a poor street car with poor reliability

i think the M car thing is highly debatable... drive around Miami, and half of the so called M cars are just M badged 330s lol... so they must think they are fooling someone I just don't know who... i know people w m cars that have never drifted them nor slid them... then BMW caught onto this by releasing the M sport brands w the M340i and the M40i moniker on everything... they are in no way M cars but they knew it was a good marketing trick... I own an M40i because i know it's a solid car that offers a lot... but I think there should be no M badge within miles of it because this thing is so far from say an M3 that I don't even know where to start

[DocOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I'll give you this... I think a better argument is that the Tacoma has a very good size for a pickup, not many trucks of this size exist because most people choose in favor of full size i.e. F150. I also think visually it's real good looking especially w the TURD parts. As far as your other comments-

1) Sure... but why on a pickup? It's not a sports car... I am not surprised there are no other trucks with this option left.

2) Yes but that's because it's based on ancient tech... it has an NA V6 w no power and no torque. Per motortrend, it does 0-60 in 9.2 seconds lmao... sure trucks aren't about performance but that means that it would see a Civic's tailights in acceleration runs. It also still uses drum brakes in the rear, gets 18 MPG combined and is virtually identical in 2023 as it was in 2014.

3) So does an F150, Silverado, Ram etc...

4) Which pickup does this NOT apply to? Maybe an F150 lightning or Cybertruck... but can't really think of any other.

5) Yes, I agree.

6) That again, goes back to peoples inherent belief that it is the best solely based on reliability. Which again, if an NA V6 doing 0-60 in 9 seconds is how people base that, then yea i agree with you... it would have good resale.

Last but not least, it's not really cheap... TRD Pros sell for $55K... that can get you a real nice F150, overall a far better pickup on just about any front except maybe reliability... but at least I could get a real engine in that truck.

1) I could say the same for you. Why do you drive a tall, heavy SUV gussied up with go-fast bits? After all, it’s not a sports car. I like the manual because it’s fun. If I only cared about speed I’d drive a Model S Plaid.

2) Actually, it’s not the same as a 2014. The V6 was new for the Taco in 2016 and has received numerous incremental improvements. It has plenty of power and torque, especially for “not a sports car”. That 0-60 is for the base 4 cylinder work truck used by the likes of O’Reilley’s parts delivery services, and for the V6 pro. The regular model V6s do mid 7s, which again is totally adequate. Giant off road tires and lifted suspensions kill acceleration times. I get about 20 combined in the Taco, which matches the average for manual M4s. So it has rear drum brakes. It still stops just fine. Audi Q4 etrons use them too.

3) Audis and Porsches have aftermarket parts. Does that make you X3 a bad choice?

4) That was more of a blanket statement. But there are examples like the higher trim Rams. The refresh F150 is also going to a giant tablet that controls everything.

6) Does it matter *why* it has good resale? Nope. I could easily sell mine for about what I paid for it. That’s all that matters. And again, not sure why the perseverance on the 0-60 time. It’s honestly totally fine. I’ve never found it to be insufficient. As for price, I paid $38k for my new Taco. No markups. No add ons. For what it is, that’s not expensive.

I don’t understand a lot of vehicle purchases, but if it makes the owner happy, good for them.

[dangerus_car]

Any american car except Corvette. Not even viper.

Maybe Tesla, but i heard from friends who own one that Tesla has a inconsistent build quality like fender gap, etc.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by DocOfTheDead

1) I could say the same for you. Why do you drive a tall, heavy SUV gussied up with go-fast bits? After all, it’s not a sports car. I like the manual because it’s fun. If I only cared about speed I’d drive a Model S Plaid.

Here I am real confused... are you arguing the MOST common use case of a performance SUV?... i.e. folks that need practicality of an SUV... size, seating and in some cases comfort but also want solid performance... the car does 0-60 in the 4s... which is better than many sports cars... so while its by no means a thoroughbred, it has a lot in numbers to back itself up.

2) Actually, it’s not the same as a 2014. The V6 was new for the Taco in 2016 and has received numerous incremental improvements. It has plenty of power and torque, especially for “not a sports car”. That 0-60 is for the base 4 cylinder work truck used by the likes of O’Reilley’s parts delivery services, and for the V6 pro. The regular model V6s do mid 7s, which again is totally adequate. Giant off road tires and lifted suspensions kill acceleration times. I get about 20 combined in the Taco, which matches the average for manual M4s. So it has rear drum brakes. It still stops just fine. Audi Q4 etrons use them too.

Is that supposed to be good if that's what a 480 HP M4 does? I've driven a Taco and was personally even interested in purchasing one... but after driving it... I ran from that dealership like Usain Bolt... it felt dated, unsafe based on body tilt, braking and overall acceleration.

3) Audis and Porsches have aftermarket parts. Does that make you X3 a bad choice?

No - which is why unlike you I would never defend BMW with that argument.... in fact I've owned an Audi.

4) That was more of a blanket statement. But there are examples like the higher trim Rams. The refresh F150 is also going to a giant tablet that controls everything.

ok

6) Does it matter *why* it has good resale? Nope. I could easily sell mine for about what I paid for it. That’s all that matters. And again, not sure why the perseverance on the 0-60 time. It’s honestly totally fine. I’ve never found it to be insufficient. As for price, I paid $38k for my new Taco. No markups. No add ons. For what it is, that’s not expensive.

No it, doesn't matter at all... but somehow ironically you have a super fun car already an M4 in manual... so why the need for a manual Taco which doesn't offer anything in the way of driving experience is beyond me... you find it fun... no issues with that but that's a feel arguement not a competitive set argument of what makes the truck good.

I think if the Taco is to serve partially as an offroad vehicle, it's probably an ok choice if you don't mind it's performance... but I'll ask a dumb question that I already know the answer to... why not a Ridgeline? Which is far better on the street, faster, just as reliable, has better tech and can still do basic truck duties... the answer is because the Taco is a lifestyle truck. I hate the Ridgeline as much as the next guy but if you discount offroad capability... its a far better road pickup than a Taco.

I don’t understand a lot of vehicle purchases, but if it makes the owner happy, good for them.

I'll end with... the resale is based on reliability primarily... do people think a Taco will never be updated or refreshed? The tundra and sequoia was and now the reliability / reliability arguement is absolutely dead in the water entirely.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by dangerus_car

Maybe Tesla, but i heard from friends who own one that Tesla has a inconsistent build quality like fender gap, etc.

"As for EV rivals, it makes the Tesla Model 3 and Model S, in particular, look shockingly crude."

Car and Driver's take during a review of the BMW i4 in this piece: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...t-2023-bmw-i4/.

[NikMN]

Tesla. If I had to get EV there are better options.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

JeepIf someone gave me a Zonda I'd sell it before ever opening the door. I consider them the Liberace of cars.

Brother from another mother LMAO. What a great analogy! Holy crap are they gaudy. It's like they had 2 different designers for inside and outside. The Zonda is so good from the outside, esp the rear.


Ok, this one will get me killed but I don't care: 911. I. Don't. Get. It. Porsche has to over-compensate/super-engineer for a car w the engine in the wrong place, you know damn well they could and did make much better cars w the MR setup, and they keep neutering the Cayman for this very reason, it's so annoying, preventing it from reaching its true potential.

Pretty much anything that is not a sportscar, top that, guys.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by John4C

Tesla anything


Little more controversial but anything non-Porsche from VAG. Audi, Lambo, etc. none of it appeals to me. The most appealing non-Porsche they sell (IMHO) is probably the Golf R.

I feel the same... that's not to say I'd NEVER buy an Audi or VW, but they definitely don't appeal to me.

[CarsAndGuitars]

We learned the hard way on the Jeep Wrangler. While on vacation in Kawaii, we had a blast driving it in the jungle, the desert and on 35mph public roads.. So much we leased one after we got home. I never hated a car for poor handling, lack of amenities and road noise more.

I also owned a 2011 Mustang and a 2015 Challenger Scat Pack, both of which I enjoyed and would never regret. The Challenger to this day is the most comfortable cruiser I've driven. But it was a place and time. Today's car culture a-holes have ruined the muscle car genre for me.

Then I went the other way and was bored senseless in an Audi A5 sportback. Practical and refined to the point you needed to go 80 before you felt any personality from it.

I would never buy a car that is typically bought by people who think of and use cars as appliances. I always try to buy new cars that grab my attention ahead of the popularity curve.

When I got the Challenger it was the first year for the refresh for the Scat Pack and the pairing of a 392 in a non-SRT product. I would go weeks at a time before seeing another of any trim level. Now I can't got thru an intersection or parking lot without them. Same for Mustangs.

I am now driving an M240i for the last 7 months, and have seen no more than 4 or 5 230's / M240's since. And I know this one will NEVER be flooded in the market, which makes me very happy.

[bagekko]

My buddy is big into wranglers, mall crawlers like most, I get a headache riding in them, they seem so cheap to me I cant believe MSRP is so high. Great off road vehicle but horrible on road.

There's almost no cars I want to buy. Very unhappy with BMWs direction past decade that gets worse. Almost got a palisades/telluride instead of the X7, thank god didn't as their dealer network is horrible and shady. Not happy with LCI X7, maybe 3 row Defender. Thought about possible Panemera for 5 series replacement. Will get a 911 eventually. Like the Cayman but it's overpriced. There is almost nothing I like, it's crazy, cars I can afford that WOULD buy can be counted on one hand. Would never get a Big 3 except for a truck. Jaquar & Land Rover is a risk because of quality. Infiniti's were always interesting until they went way down hill. Merc has gone full crazy with models & AMG everything, anything with an A is garbage. Shame Volvo's are too boring and not sporty enough. Wouldn't mind i4 or iX, but don't need more than 1 EV, and will be clinging to ICE as long as I can.

Never will own anything; Audi, VW, Suburau, Kia, Hyundai, Tesla, Nissan, Infiniti, Jeep, Chrysler, Buick, Cadillac, Mitsubishi, Alfa, Toyota, Honda, Acura.

[erickonphoenix]

any SUV, once you've been upside down in one you'll never touch one again.

[wspohn]

There are fun cars and there are cars that are tools, for carrying things. I have only owned the first category from Britain and in one case, Italy.

The second category isn't for fun, it is for utility - I have owned several American tow cars and one minivan that was brilliant for a move we did (Chrysler model that the seats folded under the floor and left you with a huge cargo bay).

I also do not like automatic gearboxes - the only non-utility vehicles I have ever owned wit them were British cars that had that as the only transmission choice (1965 and 1971 Jensen grand touring cars).

I understand that some people have to commute many miles/hours to and from work and agree that a utilitarian car with an automatic is the right choice; I just am not in a situation, fortunately, where I have to make that choice.

And the current fad of buying what are in essence large heavy trucks when you don't need them puzzles me. Why have 4WD if you never need/use it and pay the fuel penalty of the extra weight? If it is for image, then it is an image I would never desire.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by bagekko

My buddy is big into wranglers, mall crawlers like most, I get a headache riding in them, they seem so cheap to me I cant believe MSRP is so high. Great off road vehicle but horrible on road.

There's almost no cars I want to buy. Very unhappy with BMWs direction past decade that gets worse. Almost got a palisades/telluride instead of the X7, thank god didn't as their dealer network is horrible and shady. Not happy with LCI X7, maybe 3 row Defender. Thought about possible Panemera for 5 series replacement. Will get a 911 eventually. Like the Cayman but it's overpriced. There is almost nothing I like, it's crazy, cars I can afford that WOULD buy can be counted on one hand. Would never get a Big 3 except for a truck. Jaquar & Land Rover is a risk because of quality. Infiniti's were always interesting until they went way down hill. Merc has gone full crazy with models & AMG everything, anything with an A is garbage. Shame Volvo's are too boring and not sporty enough. Wouldn't mind i4 or iX, but don't need more than 1 EV, and will be clinging to ICE as long as I can.

Never will own anything; Audi, VW, Suburau, Kia, Hyundai, Tesla, Nissan, Infiniti, Jeep, Chrysler, Buick, Cadillac, Mitsubishi, Alfa, Toyota, Honda, Acura.

Curious why you're not happy with your X7. I also have an LCI X7 and I absolutely love it - one of the best luxury cars I've ever experienced. We tried all the alternatives: GLS, Q7, LX, MDX, Range, XC90 etc and the X7 was by far better than all of them in combination of luxury, driving dynamic, and feature set.

Edit: Just realized you meant you're not happy with the LCI X7 as in to potentially buy one as you already have a 2021 pre-LCI model. Sorry... disregard.

[bagekko]

The numerous bugs in the LCI X7 are a little scary, I had one as a loaner and the drastic changes from cutting buttons and moving them to iDrive, appearance & lost options/complications, and maybe the biggest one THERE IS NO MORE SHIFTER its a toggle button lol. My wife already hates our X7 because you can not manually input an address, the video turns are weird. But unfortunately its still the best full 3 row SUV...

It's a similar thing with almost all cars, the changes from cost cutting, follow the next guy to zero originality, and forcing all the unneeded tech, has turned me off from practically all cars. I like advancement and updates but I do not want expensive complicated stuff, like that multi function tailgate on GM trucks. Why?!?! it costs more and is useless 99.99% of the time, but they think its buzz cool enough to get attention and sales.

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Curious why you're not happy with your X7. I also have an LCI X7 and I absolutely love it - one of the best luxury cars I've ever experienced. We tried all the alternatives: GLS, Q7, LX, MDX, Range, XC90 etc and the X7 was by far better than all of them in combination of luxury, driving dynamic, and feature set.

Edit: Just realized you meant you're not happy with the LCI X7 as in to potentially buy one as you already have a 2021 pre-LCI model. Sorry... disregard.